AtGames 2018 speculation thread

[phoenixdownita]

This seems like the first Flashback I'm actually interested in, due to the inclusion of an SD card. I will probably get the Gold 9, but I'm curious what the inclusion of the SD card is all about if it doesn't function similarly to the lovely way it works on the Flashback Portable? I figured it was a matter of getting it working there, then adding it here, but it sounds like that's not the case.

"Jailbroken" fw, that's why it's there. .... obviously that is my guess.

[+DamonicFury]

 

OK, let's a get a few things out of the way. You can judge my "assimilation" any way you want, but I've always done my best to provide as many updates and previews as possible as things were actually happening. I can see now that this is probably a mistake, because since it's all in more or less real-time, as with any product development, things will and do happen, including, but not limited to, running out time, hitting unforseen bugs, introducing new bugs between builds, etc. I have always tried to provide what insight I could, because I know on the other side I always appreciated that. However, I see how that can be frustrating when things that are being worked on (and mentioned) don't work out. So I'll be much more careful in the future with what I share in advance, if anything, because that's how expectations can be raised, and again, things happen and sometimes things have to change.

 

Bill, I just want to take a moment to thank you for keeping us updated on these projects. I've really enjoyed seeing your posts as these products move through development. You're probably right that from a marketing perspective, it might be better not to do so. So if you choose not to do it anymore, I, for one, will understand. But thank you for all the years in which you did give us the latest news... it's been a blast!

[Bill Loguidice]

This seems like the first Flashback I'm actually interested in, due to the inclusion of an SD card. I will probably get the Gold 9, but I'm curious what the inclusion of the SD card is all about if it doesn't function similarly to the lovely way it works on the Flashback Portable? I figured it was a matter of getting it working there, then adding it here, but it sounds like that's not the case.

 

I'm sure as soon as the unlocked firmware is available it will be posted here on a new thread in AtariAge, just like the superb Atari Flashback Portable FAQ and game collection thread.

 

Officially, the SD card slots in the new products are just there for firmware updates, but obviously they can/will have other uses.

[Hwlngmad]

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

OK, let's a get a few things out of the way. You can judge my "assimilation" any way you want, but I've always done my best to provide as many updates and previews as possible as things were actually happening. I can see now that this is probably a mistake, because since it's all in more or less real-time, as with any product development, things will and do happen, including, but not limited to, running out time, hitting unforseen bugs, introducing new bugs between builds, etc. I have always tried to provide what insight I could, because I know on the other side I always appreciated that. However, I see how that can be frustrating when things that are being worked on (and mentioned) don't work out. So I'll be much more careful in the future with what I share in advance, if anything, because that's how expectations can be raised, and again, things happen and sometimes things have to change.

 

In terms of the 3.x and 5.x thing, if two separate (and pseudo-competing) companies working on this stuff had issues with 5.x, then clearly it's not as simple as just doing it. We will do our best to make it 5.x for next year (it's one of the things on the checklist), but, with the above in mind, obviously, there are no promises.

 

Finally, there are practical limitations for every company, including AtGames. Retailer deadlines must be met, retailer expectations and requests must be met, licensor expectations and requests must be met, etc. We of course try to meet the needs of core retro gamers who demand the best possible product, but that's simply not always possible. Even the companies with the biggest pockets, like a Nintendo, receive criticisms for their Mini products because x game is not 100% perfect (as just one example). Smaller companies with tighter restrictions obviously hear it more because they have fewer resources to deal with issues that crop up.

 

I'm not saying the retro gaming community shouldn't want more, but just because these products happen to have stuff on them or characteristics that they're passionate about, etc., doesn't mean it's being made for them. Whether it's AtGames, Hyperkin, Arcade1Up, Bridge Direct, etc., it's all the same story. You do the best you can for the retro gamer community, but ultimately realize that they'll never be happy, there will always be a vocal group who are angry/displeased/frustrated/don't understand that not everything is for them and their personal needs, etc. That's why companies like the ones mentioned target the wide mass market (and do a great job at it). Sure, that's where most of the money is, but that's also where the products can be enjoyed on their own merits, e.g., is it inexpensive fun as presented rather than does it perfectly replicate the experience I know like the back of my hand as a subject matter expert.

[phoenixdownita]

OK, let's a get a few things out of the way. You can judge my "assimilation" any way you want, but I've always done my best to provide as many updates and previews as possible as things were actually happening. I can see now that this is probably a mistake, because since it's all in more or less real-time, as with any product development, things will and do happen, including, but not limited to, running out time, hitting unforseen bugs, introducing new bugs between builds, etc. I have always tried to provide what insight I could, because I know on the other side I always appreciated that. However, I see how that can be frustrating when things that are being worked on (and mentioned) don't work out. So I'll be much more careful in the future with what I share in advance, if anything, because that's how expectations can be raised, and again, things happen and sometimes things have to change.

 

....

Why would a single (im)poster a.k.a. me trigger a change in behavior so radical, or just a menace to change behavior?

I have a very high opinion of myself but not to the point of believing to be having any influence at all on a spokesperson to change behavior (or menace to do so).

 

I apologize if the comment came in as too acidic, but "see you next year" is really getting to me (maybe it shouldn't), however you want to frame it it sounds disappointing.

If the R77 is any indication there's hunger for a decent solution at that 50-70 price range. Its demise for pretty much the same causes may spell trouble for this product too unless there's a lower bar for the Flashback line of products. I don't know which way it is.

 

And please don't give the likes of me any power on as to how you run your messaging, if anything you'd know ahead of time it's not all roses.

[CZroe]

 

 

According to this, the Sega Genesis model is delayed worldwide until 2019.

 

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/09/sega_mega_drive_mini_release_has_been_delayed_until_2019

Apparently a Japanese developer is now handling the software, too.

I hope that developer is M2. They handled the 3D Classics series for the 3DS and are currently working on the Sega Ages series for the Switch. Their work is impeccable!

Exactly what I thought when I heard the news but now I wonder if it’s something else, like, they partnered with Analogue for an FPGA console to announce this year and bumped the all-in-one mini w/Japanese-developed FW to 2019. Edited October 1, 2018 by CZroe

[Bill Loguidice]

Why would a single (im)poster a.k.a. me trigger a change in behavior so radical, or just a menace to change behavior?

I have a very high opinion of myself but not to the point of believing to be having any influence at all on a spokesperson to change behavior (or menace to do so).

 

I apologize if the comment came in as too acidic, but "see you next year" is really getting to me (maybe it shouldn't), however you want to frame it it sounds disappointing.

If the R77 is any indication there's hunger for a decent solution at that 50-70 price range. Its demise for pretty much the same causes may spell trouble for this product too unless there's a lower bar for the Flashback line of products. I don't know which way it is.

 

And please don't give the likes of me any power on as to how you run your messaging, if anything you'd know ahead of time it's not all roses.

 

Your point is valid, and, upon reflecting, I really shouldn't be discussing things in progress that might get misinterpreted or get hopes up in case there's a chance for them to be dashed. I was pretty clear about the possibility of 5.x not working out, but there's still some frustration about it (understandable, of course). It really was attempted, though.

 

With these products, it's always going to be "see you next year" for more features. You cram what you can in each year, but, when time runs out, it's out. Retailers want their stuff, and in fact need their stuff, at very specific times. I am in the trenches (at least with this particular company) and see what is attempted, what is sought after, what the desire to change is, etc., but it doesn't always work out in the end (obviously). I'm as disappointed as anyone, but at least have the benefit of seeing/knowing/experiencing the "why," so that's why my general optimism remains what it is (although I'm generally a very optimistic person). And in the time that my role has evolved with the company these past few years, dramatic improvements have been made and are continuing to be made. I realize that's not enough when people understandably want the very best now (and have all those years of past mediocrity or no changes to reference), and I understand that "maybe next year" (or we'll try next year) is not a satisfying answer, but it is the reality.

[Keatah]

Couldn't the Stella 5.x issue be easier solved by using hardware that supports whatever acceleration is necessary? Even if it means $5.00 more higher pricetag..

[Bill Loguidice]

Couldn't the Stella 5.x issue be easier solved by using hardware that supports whatever acceleration is necessary? Even if it means $5.00 more higher pricetag..

 

If only it were that simple. Costs are very constrained and price points are basically set by retailers. You can't just say "raise your price by $5".

 

Again, 3.x is perfectly functional for regular usage, obviously, even if the retro gamer crowd would prefer the newest version. It more than meets the needs of the product.

[Keatah]

I see. There are times when I feel that retrogaming enthusiasts are wrong and out of line blasting basic products like this. A true genuine enthusiast is likely going to have a complete and full and proper and personally satisfying way of playing their favorite games already. If not, then there are other solutions to fit that purpose exactly. Some sort of high-quality emulation or perhaps original hardware from ebay. But there are solutions available.

[Flojomojo]

"Solutions" to the problem of playing Atari games, for the true genuine enthusiast" with "full and proper and personally satisfying way of playing their favorite games already."

 

Can we get over ourselves, please?

[Keatah]

No!

[AAA177]

 

If only it were that simple. Costs are very constrained and price points are basically set by retailers. You can't just say "raise your price by $5".

 

 

Bill, just out of curiosity and for my own knowledge, when you say retailers set the price point, I assume you mean in this specific case, for ATGames, correct? I'm assuming that, just as an example, Nintendo tells retailers what the price point will be for its products, and if it wanted to sell its dedicated units for a higher price it could? Presumably, that might affect inventory levels at retail, and Nintendo could then decide exactly how it wants to distribute its products...

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Bill, just out of curiosity and for my own knowledge, when you say retailers set the price point, I assume you mean in this specific case, for ATGames, correct? I'm assuming that, just as an example, Nintendo tells retailers what the price point will be for its products, and if it wanted to sell its dedicated units for a higher price it could? Presumably, that might affect inventory levels at retail, and Nintendo could then decide exactly how it wants to distribute its products...

 

Bigger companies like Nintendo have a lot more leverage (and really are in a "unicorn" class of their own), but in most cases, a company like a Walmart has buyers who want to carry certain products at x price point. So, for instance, if they want to sell our Blast! products at $19.99 or less, we can't say, well, at $29.99 we could make a better product, so please sell it at that. Of course, we could try and argue the point, but they have their own ideas about what would sell and why (and it's hard to argue with their success). So usually we would need to work with the parameters given to us after we present our idea/plan. It's definitely a type of partnership, but limited wiggle room after a point. And of course, orders are placed early in the year, so that sets the schedule for the rest of the year.

[bmadgames]

 

If only it were that simple. Costs are very constrained and price points are basically set by retailers. You can't just say "raise your price by $5".

 

Again, 3.x is perfectly functional for regular usage, obviously, even if the retro gamer crowd would prefer the newest version. It more than meets the needs of the product.

I think many people on here are missing the big picture. The improvements made in the past few years have been amazing. Yes there is still work to do, but remember two years ago when we were all complaining about no HDMI and controllers that hardly worked. Now we have an SD card slot, controllers that work, HDMI output, and a much improved emulator. I for one am grateful of all the changes given the price point.

 

I think Bill deserves some credit for giving us the latest information and for helping drive some of these changes. If I remember correctly, Bill has been advocating for upgrades for many years.

Edited October 2, 2018 by bmadgames

[Moonpig]

Aye every year this products gets better keep up the good work Bill.

 

One day i would like to see wireless paddle controllers .

 

Also medieval mayhem on the system .

[carlsson]

Regarding the price, I believe Nintendo has managed to raise the bar what people are willing to pay, if they get value for money, and thus what retailers also can charge without getting lots of surplus items, again if the product holds a value equal to its price.

 

Of course increasing the price to not appear inferior to competitors, but not delivering the added experience works for 1 month until those YouTube videos trickle in, then it is suicide.

[atarifan88]

Ok, so if Stella 3.x is what we have, I think the major limitation would be running the more recent homebrew releases like Scramble, Super Cobra Arcade, Donkey Kong VCS, etc. However, it has left me wondering if any of the homebrew Pac-Man releases would work (i.e. Pac-Man 4k/8k)? Could anyone confirm these? I'm just trying to prepare myself for what to expect. It still sounds like we are heading in the right direction...

Edited October 2, 2018 by atarifan88

[whbinder]

Bill,

 

You are a tremendous resource to this thread, this website and this community. Thank you.

[phoenixdownita]

I think many people on here are missing the big picture. The improvements made in the past few years have been amazing. Yes there is still work to do, but remember two years ago when we were all complaining about no HDMI and controllers that hardly worked. Now we have an SD card slot, controllers that work, HDMI output, and a much improved emulator. I for one am grateful of all the changes given the price point.

 

The jab at Bill was not to question his integrity, just that TO ME it seemed like there was a resignation to "next year" ... as he explained it seems inevitable though, so apologies on that front.

Yes I admit I may have been too harsh but I can't shake off of me one weird feeling, here it goes:

 

This is what? The 2nd year of the new AtGames (or the 3rd if we count that the Atari FlashBack Portable had a 2016 release) ... but let's stick to 2 past years and the next one (2019), buying the FB 8+9 at 60$ MSRP sets you back 120US$ and that hoping that next year (2019) is even better after having plunked down 180US$ (if they stick to the 60US$ MSRP for the Atari FB10) ..... obviously AtGames is not trying to sell 3 times the "same" Atari FB console to the "same" people but still ... it's not cheap if one wants to support them.

 

Now the Blast units at 20US$ are a different ball game altogether .... unsure what's inside but I suspect a tiny ARM of AllWinner R8 class or alike ... looking forward to a tear-down.

[Bill Loguidice]

Computer America's interview with Yada Khoongumjorn, AtGames Licensing Coordinator.

 

https://youtu.be/ZGMufKpFtGM?t=3m57s

[Inky]

Is there any plans to put a brightness control on the portables?

[Bill Loguidice]

Is there any plans to put a brightness control on the portables?

 

Adjustment is not possible on this year's, unfortunately, but I can tell you that this new batch of screens is very bright.

[AAA177]

Phoenix, here's something I wonder (and let me say I appreciate/respect all your thoughts): maybe it's a prudent-use-of-cash-flow thing. As time goes on, and as presumably ATGames increases its growth in cash flow (hope that's happening, for all of our sakes!), it can only allocate so much every year to improvements, being very mindful of the economic value added to any investment. For me, what is frustrating is the lack of what could be called high-profile IP licenses. I definitely understand it, mind you, but I'd be lying if I said there isn't a tinge of what-could-be thinking when I contemplate having Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., Ghostbusters, Montezuma's Revenge, Fast Eddie, Miner 2049er, Mountain King, Tapper, Kangaroo, and stuff like that on a Flashback unit, maybe twenty of those kinds of games on one of these new, great Blast products. I know there's always SD, and I may get into that at some point, but being older and not Internet savvy, I'm still figuring all that out, and worrying about the legality of it all. Personally, I'd rather just buy all this stuff. I'll also say as well I think it is time to move on to 5200/7800/XL/ST Flashbacks. I think the argument that those titles don't have the same resonance in the marketplace as 2600 titles do no longer makes any sense (if it ever did).

 

Even with all the above, let me say I love ATGames, wish it the best, and appreciate Bill's hard work and willingness to answer questions. I certainly understand all the complications involved in all of this, and offer the above only as a verbalized wish, not as a suggestion or criticism. And I personally use and love the products, especially the Flashback portable, which makes it easier for me to access Atari titles. Looking forward to the Blast stuff this year, too, as my budget for acquisition will probably be tight this year.

[Mockduck]

I'm assuming the number of people buying these vs. the number of people who visit Atari Age is a ratio of about 100,000:1. These are clearly inexpensive and fun little nostalgia gadgets, made with love and care and the constraints of actually staying in business. That it'll have an SD card slot at all is a huge nod to the gamers out there, IMO, and is probably why I'll finally get one. But let's be real: This is meant for electronics sections of places like Target, Walmart, Kohl's, Best Buy (maybe?), CVS pharmacies, etc. Heck, when doing a search for preordering this one of the first results is Montgomery Ward! Ya know, the gamer's store Montgomery Ward.