+nanochess Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 @phoenixdownita as an experienced developer and completely uninformed and outside of Atgames, I can tell you that the fact that Atgames used Stella 3 in their line is an amazing success for the community. Not using Stella 5 even if available is because it probably requires more resources and it's a complete change in relation to Stella 3. For developers it's not so easy to port a program increasing difficulty as program grows in complexity. Besides Stella depends on lots of functionality (read SDL, keyboard, hard disk and other things) that aren't available in an embedded platform. The fact that Bill says Stella 5 is being considered is a great thing. You could say: why not to do Stella 5 in the first place? Just because is bigger than Stella 3. In programming being a perfectionist and trying to get the most complex thing working while having deadlines is a recipe for failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 @phoenixdownita as an experienced developer and completely uninformed and outside of Atgames, I can tell you that the fact that Atgames used Stella 3 in their line is an amazing success for the community. .... Leaving Bill aside, when the R77 came out with old Stella 3 people were not exactly happy .... so I am not entirely sure where do the 2 measures come from? Maybe it's all irrelevant if even stephena, the author of Stella who was somewhat disappointed in R77 Stella3 choice, well even him seems to be fine with what appears to me to be a similar choice by AtGames, if he's fine I take he tested the product and he is satisfied with the end result, so I have to consider his opinion over mine. I apologize if I "stirred the pot" for what many seem to be considering petty/non-existent issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) AtGames flashback is in a different market from R77, and that's where the double-standard originates from. AtGames' product will do exactly what it says it will do, play all the built-in games. RetroN 77 does NOT do all things it says it will do. It says will play cartridges. But it will not play all cartridges. And there is no official compatibility list. Emulation and cartridge dumping seems like a kludge. If you're going to do emulation, might as well just do roms. If you're doing cartridges, then be sure your hardware can read them, all of them. Furthermore: @phoenixdownita as an experienced developer and completely uninformed and outside of Atgames, I can tell you that the fact that Atgames used Stella 3 in their line is an amazing success for the community. ..AtGames has a track record of producing Flashbacks and I have high confidence next year's iteration will be even more better. OTH I do not feel confident that Hyperkin will release any updates or come out with a RetroN 77 - 2. Edited October 3, 2018 by Keatah 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Maybe it's all irrelevant if even stephena, the author of Stella who was somewhat disappointed in R77 Stella3 choice, well even him seems to be fine with what appears to me to be a similar choice by AtGames, if he's fine I take he tested the product and he is satisfied with the end result, so I have to consider his opinion over mine. To be clear, it's not that "I'm fine" with it, it's just that I understand the complications involved and sometimes the deadlines that have to be adhered to. Would I have preferred Stella 5/6; absolutely. It fixes many bugs that are continually reported against the R77, and that part is annoying for me; having to deal with bug reports for issues that were fixed years ago. But I suspect many people in the general public will never notice such issues. Mostly they may notice screen tearing (which is a peeve of mine), and support for newer games not being present. The former is probably much more noticeable. As for having tested the product: no, I've never received one, and the last AtGames Flashback I used is version 2. But if Bill/AtGames wants to send me one, of course I wouldn't turn it down My opinion is based solely on what the code is doing, the minimum required hardware, etc. So I can see that an embedded system can be having problems with the latest versions. But in the long run, the only way to fix this emulation issue for good is to get sufficient hardware there and get Stella 6 installed. The TIA/sound emulation is approaching near 100% compatibility at this point, so once we get it ported, you'll basically (hopefully) never have to worry about emulation issues on these products again. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I'm kind of surprised yet not they'd blow you off. I would think if they're going to use your hard work to drive that thing they'd have at least enough consideration to consult, send you a system, and try and work out any kinks with the thing to some degree of satisfaction. Instead leaving you much like Hyperkin did having to maybe worry about cleaning up someone elses mess that impacts on you badly despite being hands off just stinks of shadiness in that aspect of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I'm kind of surprised yet not they'd blow you off. I would think if they're going to use your hard work to drive that thing they'd have at least enough consideration to consult, send you a system, and try and work out any kinks with the thing to some degree of satisfaction. Instead leaving you much like Hyperkin did having to maybe worry about cleaning up someone elses mess that impacts on you badly despite being hands off just stinks of shadiness in that aspect of things. That's not exactly true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 That's absolutely not what I said. I simply stated that I haven't used a Flashback since the V2 I bought way back when. And TBH, I'm not really the target market anyway, as I can (and have) set up my own HTPC and run Stella directly. I was also responding to the previous poster that I must have tested it. I haven't, but then again, it's not a requirement for me to test it; it's not my product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Just a heads up that I will reviewing the Flashback Blast Vol. 3 Pong Paddle unit on my channel tomorrow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Just a heads up that I will reviewing the Flashback Blast Vol. 3 Pong Paddle unit on my channel tomorrow. I'm a little disappointed that Video Olympics was counted as 8 of the 20 games. Myself I would have been a lot happer with them calling it a 12 in 1 or even a 10 in 1 and get rid of a couple of the real stinkers from the list. What do you think John? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) I'm a little disappointed that Video Olympics was counted as 8 of the 20 games. Myself I would have been a lot happer with them calling it a 12 in 1 or even a 10 in 1 and get rid of a couple of the real stinkers from the list. What do you think John? Like those 500 in 1 NES carts with 250 versions of SMB. Also I get it's a licensing issue but not having Kaboom on a dedicated Atari paddle unit is a bit crazy. Would have been nice if the arcade version of Warlords was present too, like the older Jakks Pacific Paddle PnP. (Which admittedly also didn't have Kaboom) To Bill Loguidice - apologies, as it must look like we're a bunch of whiny children making demands you have no control over. Please understand these comments are not meant as a slight to you as you must feel caught in the middle and I'm sorry if some of these remarks have put you off, either by myself or others. Edited October 4, 2018 by AtariLeaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I remember Robot Tank wasn't included in last year's model 8 Gold because it didn't work well on that particular system. I was hoping that maybe with Stella 3.x in the model 9 Gold, this issue would be resolved. Is Robot Tank not on this year's model because there is still an issue with the game working or is it a licensing issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I remember Robot Tank wasn't included in last year's model 8 Gold because it didn't work well on that particular system. I was hoping that maybe with Stella 3.x in the model 9 Gold, this issue would be resolved. Is Robot Tank not on this year's model because there is still an issue with the game working or is it a licensing issue? I haven't tested it, but I see no reason why it shouldn't work. Anything not included will be playable by other means. To answer the Blast! paddle question, it's only Atari-published paddle games. I don't agree with how Video Olympics was split either, but each variation is selectable directly from the main menu, so they're technically separate games in that sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I'm a little disappointed that Video Olympics was counted as 8 of the 20 games. Myself I would have been a lot happer with them calling it a 12 in 1 or even a 10 in 1 and get rid of a couple of the real stinkers from the list. What do you think John? I wanted to like the paddle unit but there are some problems with it. The biggest one I see is not able to play Warlords out the box with 4 human players. The video filter and menu navigation were things about this product that showcase the need for more gamers to playtest these items before being mass produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I wanted to like the paddle unit but there are some problems with it. The biggest one I see is not able to play Warlords out the box with 4 human players. The video filter and menu navigation were things about this product that showcase the need for more gamers to playtest these items before being mass produced. I was going to respond in the private email thread, but there's no reason not to discuss some of this in public. Playtesting is not the issue here. Obviously, our testing team identified all actual issues. Unfortunately, retail deadlines make it impossible to address everything in time, so whatever is not something that makes it unplayable or is downright broken sometimes can't be addressed. We'll continue to push for more time for fixes in the future. In terms of the video filter, there is none. It's just the way most of the Blast! series (except for the Pac-Man one) outputs video. It comes out soft and smooth. That's a hardware limitation for this year. In terms of the game list, all games are playable by one or two people except for Quadrapong. I'm trying to find out if we're still releasing the add-on paddles, similar to how we're releasing the P2 Blast! Controller add-on. The reality is, as much as someone might want to play 4 player Warlords out of the box, it's no different than any other solution to play Warlords - you don't automatically have four players by default, i.e., you have to add a second set of paddles. Most of this is not an issue for the intended mass market consumer. These will be issues with your audience, of course, so it's understandable that you'll want to point them out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I just got confirmation that the plan is to still release the optional second set of wireless paddles. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarGungan Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 After skipping the last few Atari Flashbacks, I'm thinking this year is the year I buy a new one. Is there a possibility of any retailer exclusives I should keep an eye out for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 After skipping the last few Atari Flashbacks, I'm thinking this year is the year I buy a new one. Is there a possibility of any retailer exclusives I should keep an eye out for? I'm not sure yet. When I find out, I'll post something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accousticguitar Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Officially, the SD card slots in the new products are just there for firmware updates, but obviously they can/will have other uses. On the Atgames website the description says "SD Card Slot for Downloadable Games." That sounds to me like it should work with roms right out of the box with no firmware updates necessary. https://www.atgames.us/products/atari-flashback-9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 On the Atgames website the description says "SD Card Slot for Downloadable Games." That sounds to me like it should work with roms right out of the box with no firmware updates necessary. https://www.atgames.us/products/atari-flashback-9 It won't, but the firmware will become available. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 It won't, but the firmware will become available. Politics is a strange thing, that they can put in on the box, but not in the console in the box. <shrugs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I was going to respond in the private email thread, but there's no reason not to discuss some of this in public. Playtesting is not the issue here. Obviously, our testing team identified all actual issues. Unfortunately, retail deadlines make it impossible to address everything in time, so whatever is not something that makes it unplayable or is downright broken sometimes can't be addressed. We'll continue to push for more time for fixes in the future. In terms of the video filter, there is none. It's just the way most of the Blast! series (except for the Pac-Man one) outputs video. It comes out soft and smooth. That's a hardware limitation for this year. In terms of the game list, all games are playable by one or two people except for Quadrapong. I'm trying to find out if we're still releasing the add-on paddles, similar to how we're releasing the P2 Blast! Controller add-on. The reality is, as much as someone might want to play 4 player Warlords out of the box, it's no different than any other solution to play Warlords - you don't automatically have four players by default, i.e., you have to add a second set of paddles. Most of this is not an issue for the intended mass market consumer. These will be issues with your audience, of course, so it's understandable that you'll want to point them out. Thanks for the updated information on the behind the scenes. It is most appreciated. As you know, I want to be a supporter of the best products being made and I am grateful that they have people such as yourself involved. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonpig Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I just got confirmation that the plan is to still release the optional second set of wireless paddles. Will the wireless paddles controllers work with the flashback 9? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Nut Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Will the wireless paddles controllers work with the flashback 9? Thanks Unfortunately not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I see consumer confusion and disappointment ahead with the paddle controllers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I see consumer confusion and disappointment ahead with the paddle controllers. Hopefully the ones that were made for the Flashback 9 will work better with no jitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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