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TIPI Usage and Support

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I'm having issues trying to use the sidecar TIPI/32K along with a sidecar SAMS.  

 

First, I tried the SAMS as the only thing connected to the console, with the SAMS powered via its USB connector.  A memory test passes for all pages.

 

Then I disabled the 32K on the TIPI via the jumper, which I verified by connecting only the TIPI to the console, running a memory test, and it confirmed that the 32K expansion was not present.  The TIPI is powered via its USB connector.  I also verified that the TIPI was working via CALL TIPI.

 

Then I connected both the TIPI and the SAMS, both powered independently via their USB connectors, and the memory test fails every time on the second set of pages.

 

Any idea why this is happening?  How are they conflicting with each other?

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You do have SAMS plugged in first, and then the TIPI+32k unit right?

Pretty sure it won't work if you turn the units the other way around.

 

Console > (Speech synth if you have one) > SAMS sidecar > TIPI

 

Would it be possible to get a picture of your setup?

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CALL TIPI shouldn't work with no memory expansion. So I don't think you disabled the 32k correctly, or maybe your events are not ordered. CALL TIPI loads an EA5 program into 32k memory expansion and runs that. This should hang or crash to title screen if you have the TIPI/32K combo board's 32k disabled. 

 

Looking at @J-Data's wiki, the crubase controls the 32k enable... 

 

I don't see any pictures that show the labelling on that bank of 4 jumpers.. but I believe from discussion with him, that they are as such:

 

1 2 4 +mem-disable
| | | |
: : : :
crubase

<- front of 4A ----- back of 4A -> 

So, the ideal setting for your situation should be crubase 1100 and mem-disable - 2 jumpers, one on each end:

 

1 2 4 +mem-disable
| | | |
I : : I
crubase

<- front of 4A ----- back of 4A -> 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, jrhodes said:

You do have SAMS plugged in first, and then the TIPI+32k unit right?

Pretty sure it won't work if you turn the units the other way around.

 

Console > (Speech synth if you have one) > SAMS sidecar > TIPI

 

Would it be possible to get a picture of your setup?

That isn't possible (without additional adapters)... The TIPI/32K won't plug into the right hand side of a sideport SAMS... so it has to be [4A][tipi/32k combo unit][sideport SAMS]

 

Speech should be able to be on either side of the tipi/32k, unless @J-Data didn't route the -5v, SBE, or AUDIO signals through. But I don't recall any chatter about that.

 

There are pics of what it auto to look like here: https://github.com/jgparker/tipi/wiki/FAQ

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Oh, there is a physical switch on the sideport sams... in this configuration it MUST be on the 'ext' setting to use external power. If it isn't on 'ext' it doesn't matter that the power supply is connected, it won't use it, and it'll get who knows what from the upstream TIPI/32K. The 74LS612 chip is a power monster... 

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13 minutes ago, jedimatt42 said:

Oh, there is a physical switch on the sideport sams... in this configuration it MUST be on the 'ext' setting to use external power. If it isn't on 'ext' it doesn't matter that the power supply is connected, it won't use it, and it'll get who knows what from the upstream TIPI/32K. The 74LS612 chip is a power monster... 

The switch is set to ext.  I am wondering if the SAMS USB power isn't working.  The connector feels loose and I have tried multiple cables.  Is the light supposed to light up if I just plug in the USB power without having it connected to the sideport?  Right now, it isn't lighting up.

 

23 minutes ago, jedimatt42 said:

CALL TIPI shouldn't work with no memory expansion. So I don't think you disabled the 32k correctly, or maybe your events are not ordered. CALL TIPI loads an EA5 program into 32k memory expansion and runs that. This should hang or crash to title screen if you have the TIPI/32K combo board's 32k disabled. 

 

Looking at @J-Data's wiki, the crubase controls the 32k enable... 

 

I don't see any pictures that show the labelling on that bank of 4 jumpers.. but I believe from discussion with him, that they are as such:

 

1 2 4 +mem-disable
| | | |
: : : :
crubase

<- front of 4A ----- back of 4A -> 

So, the ideal setting for your situation should be crubase 1100 and mem-disable - 2 jumpers, one on each end:

 

1 2 4 +mem-disable
| | | |
I : : I
crubase

<- front of 4A ----- back of 4A -> 

 

 

 

Sorry, my bad on the CALL TIPI test - that was with both connected.  The initial 32K passes the memory check with both connected, it's the next banks that fail.

 

I have only the rear jumper set for mem disable.  I don't have the first crubase jumper set (using 1000 which is what I had before.)  Does 1000 crubase conflict with the SAMS?

 

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31 minutes ago, jrhodes said:

You do have SAMS plugged in first, and then the TIPI+32k unit right?

Pretty sure it won't work if you turn the units the other way around.

 

Console > (Speech synth if you have one) > SAMS sidecar > TIPI

 

Would it be possible to get a picture of your setup?

Ultimately, I want to have Console > Speech > TIPI > SAMS.  For these tests, I omitted the Speech synch, so it was Console > TIPI > SAMS.  SAMS ends the chain because there is no edge connector to continue beyond that.

 

Photos attached of TIPI (with mem disabled jumper, USB mouse, USB power, shutdown/reboot switch, and disk activity LED), and SAMS (with power switch set to ext.)

IMG_6562.jpeg

IMG_6564.jpeg

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7 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

Speech should be able to be on either side of the tipi/32k, unless @J-Data didn't route the -5v, SBE, or AUDIO signals through. But I don't recall any chatter about that.

Yup, TIPI/32K carries through all pins from the expansion port.  Not the case for the speech synthesizer. I’d put the TIPI/32K  first and the synthesizer next, then the SAMS.  That how I’ve done it anyway.

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@webdeck crubase is not your issue, but to clarify: 

SAMS crubase is always 1E00. 

TI floppy controller is 1100.

TIPI/32K board's TIPI part can use crubase 1000-1700

- if TIPI's not running at 1100 (same as floppy) then it does not do CALL FILES which is required for some software, notably things using "The Missing Link" XB library. If you don't have another floppy controller at 1100, then it is recommended that TIPI run at crubase 1100. 

 

But... not your issue. This still won't create conflicts unless there is a defect in one or the other... 

 

You can test the power with a multimeter on the SAMS board... 

with it disconnected from everything else, plug it in... then... test for +5v on the center pin of the switch, and GND is at the middle 4 pins in the bottom row (bottom when oriented for connection, not bottom of your photo) ... +5v is also on the lower left most pin (away from your USB plug)

 

                         +5V
                         v
                        ... <- switch
::::::::::::::::::::::    [usb]
^          ^
+5v        Gnd

 

All the chips on that SAMS board are 5V.. so you can find the datasheets and measure about to verify they are all getting fed.. Given you said the SAMS passes on it's own, and have double checked the switch, seems unlikely... unless we are back where the ram is operating on address voltage leaks, and the mapper chip is not powered. IDK. What's your skill set, and how much appetite do you have for troubleshooting? Fixing these when they are acting up, is usually a job for a microscope... 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

@webdeck crubase is not your issue, but to clarify: 

SAMS crubase is always 1E00. 

TI floppy controller is 1100.

TIPI/32K board's TIPI part can use crubase 1000-1700

- if TIPI's not running at 1100 (same as floppy) then it does not do CALL FILES which is required for some software, notably things using "The Missing Link" XB library. If you don't have another floppy controller at 1100, then it is recommended that TIPI run at crubase 1100. 

 

But... not your issue. This still won't create conflicts unless there is a defect in one or the other... 

 

You can test the power with a multimeter on the SAMS board... 

with it disconnected from everything else, plug it in... then... test for +5v on the center pin of the switch, and GND is at the middle 4 pins in the bottom row (bottom when oriented for connection, not bottom of your photo) ... +5v is also on the lower left most pin (away from your USB plug)

 

                         +5V
                         v
                        ... <- switch
::::::::::::::::::::::    [usb]
^          ^
+5v        Gnd

 

All the chips on that SAMS board are 5V.. so you can find the datasheets and measure about to verify they are all getting fed.. Given you said the SAMS passes on it's own, and have double checked the switch, seems unlikely... unless we are back where the ram is operating on address voltage leaks, and the mapper chip is not powered. IDK. What's your skill set, and how much appetite do you have for troubleshooting? Fixing these when they are acting up, is usually a job for a microscope... 

Thanks, @jedimatt42 - I tested and am getting 4.8V between the center pin of the switch and ground on the edge connector.  I thought there may be something wrong with the USB connector as the cable doesn't seem to be able to plug in all the way and seems loose, but I get a steady voltage, so while the loose fitting cable is concerning, that doesn't appear to be the issue.

 

Anything beyond a basic multimeter is going to exceed my hardware skills, so I think this is beyond my capabilities to diagnose.  I was hoping it was something I was doing wrong.  I purchased it from @arcadeshopper and it was tested before it was shipped, but now that we seem to have ruled out user error, this does seem to be a hardware defect from what I can tell.

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I am a bit confused. 😅 

 

TIPI Sidecar

::::     >1000

I:::     >1100

:I::     >1200

II::     >1300

::I:     >1400

I:I:     >1500

:II:     >1600

III:     >1700

:::I     >1800
I::I     >1900

:I:I     >1A00

II:I     >1B00

::II     >1C00

I:II     >1D00

:III     >1E00

IIII     >1F00

 

TIPI / 32k
::::     >1000

I:::     >1100

:I::     >1200

II::     >1300

::I:     >1400

I:I:     >1500

:II:     >1600

III:     >1700

:::I     >1000 mem-disable

I::I     >1100 mem-disable

:I:I     >1200 mem-disable

II:I     >1300 mem-disable

::II     >1400 mem-disable

I:II     >1500 mem-disable

:III     >1600 mem-disable

IIII     >1700 mem-disable

 

Is this correct? 😊

Thanks

Ursus 

Edited by Ursus
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Looks right. 

 

TIPI sidecar crubase jumpers are oriented in a column, with least significant bit at the bottom, and a full nibble of control.  https://github.com/jedimatt42/tipi/wiki/crubase

 

TIPI/32k by J-Data crubase is the first 3 jumpers in the row, with least significant bit on the left, and the right most jumper controls 32k disable when closed.

 

It is a binary encoding in jumpers of the second (x) nibble of the crubase 1x00.  Closed jumper is a set bit (1) 

 

(My orientation's are with regard to holding the PCB.. J-Data type is female edge connection up, jedimatt42 style is with url in English orientation. )

 

Ideally people would be considerate and ship these with the crubase set to >1100 for optimal usage when no floppy drive is present.

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Update 2.25 - 2021-09-05

 

- added TLS socket support as messaging type 0x24. Same API as 0x22 TCP, but without the server socket features. There is no certificate management, remote host is not verified at this time. I'm sure that will bug me for a while, and I'll fix it in some future.

- added PI.TLS=<hostname>:<port> DSR level support for secure sockets.

- added user agent header to PI.HTTP(S) gets... 

- added SAVE to PI.HTTP and PI.HTTPS ( 'WRITE' just 'SAVE' ... I suppose I could add POST on CLOSE for write... but later... ) The TIFILES file is letting unix curl form encode the file... ::::> curl -v -A agent-string -F '[email protected]/tmp/CF' https://yourspecialserver.com/cgi-bin/php-whatsit

 

user agent string looks like: ti994a-Tipi/2.25

I don't remember why 'Tipi' is mixed case... I think it was cited earlier that classic99 submits a user-agent on gets with the substring 'Tipi' in it. so.. probably why... 

 

Wiki documentation is NOT there yet. 

 

TLS socket support added to messaging cause I'm interested in this: https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ - no promises.

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No idea what any of this means, but I assume it has something to do with remote access of the TIPI?

Could come in handy for a future project I have in mind... (lots of self-education required first obviously)

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45 minutes ago, Vorticon said:

No idea what any of this means, but I assume it has something to do with remote access of the TIPI?

Could come in handy for a future project I have in mind... (lots of self-education required first obviously)

The 'user-agent' and save to PI.HTTP/PI.HTTPS stuff is with regard to an earlier conversation here with @OLD CS1 who wanted to setup a custom web site that can serve and receive TIFILES... 

 

The TLS stuff is mostly about enabling us to write network clients that connect to servers requiring secure communication. Data is encrypted from the PI to the server and back. Same capabilities as the TCP socket support, basically, but some application layer protocols like Gemini, secure irc, most email and https require TLS to be handled before you can send and receive the useful stuff.

 

 

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16 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

user agent string looks like: ti994a-Tipi/2.25

I don't remember why 'Tipi' is mixed case... I think it was cited earlier that classic99 submits a user-agent on gets with the substring 'Tipi' in it. so.. probably why... 

Right.  Classic99's TIPI emulation uses Tipi in the user-agent string.  I had planned to make detection case insensitive, but this level of uniformity is nice.

 

Unfortunately I have to wait to see if @Tursi implements save in Classic99 to do any testing on my own.  I will likely enlist some help down the road.  I am working on another migration project right now so I do not expect to have a lot of free time over the next few weeks.

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3 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

The 'user-agent' and save to PI.HTTP/PI.HTTPS stuff is with regard to an earlier conversation here with @OLD CS1 who wanted to setup a custom web site that can serve and receive TIFILES... 

 

 

So, if I understand this correctly, one can do something like SAVE PI.HTTP://incoming/LOAD from something like Extended Basic as long as that folder has the properties for saving?

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, 9640News said:

So, if I understand this correctly, one can do something like SAVE PI.HTTP://incoming/LOAD from something like Extended Basic as long as that folder has the properties for saving?

That is my goal, yes.  To save to the site, the user will provide an identification token as part of the saving filename.  The format I have planned currently is SAVE PI.HTTPS://oldcs1.com/token/optional_dir/filename.  The token will be resolved back to the user account on the back-end and placed in the appropriate directory.  OLDing the same program would replace the token with the userid, as the token is just used to allow write permissions.

 

Right now I have not figured up a permission system, so all files will be public once uploaded.  That may change in the future and I am leaving place-holders to allow for it later.  Might be something as simple as prefixing a directory name with an underscore to hide it or make it accessible only when using your token.

 

(Note, the domain "oldcs1.com" does not exist and will likely not be used.  I want to make the domain name as short as possible but remain TI-related.)

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Scroll back a few conversations for full cloud storage writeup. Your imagination is the limit. (or read: https://github.com/jedimatt42/tipi/wiki/Cloud) Just looks like directories and files to the TI. No feature penalties.

 

Regarding 'SAVE' to PI.HTTPS...  to be clear it is PAB opcode 0x06 'SAVE', not TI BASIC keyword 'SAVE' that is supported. Most of the time, TI BASIC 'SAVE' issues an opcode 0x06 'SAVE' to the storage device. But, if in TI Extended BASIC, your program exceeds certain criteria or the mode is forced, the 'SAVE' keyword may perform opcode 'OPEN', 'WRITE', a bunch... and 'CLOSE' - the latter is not supported.

 

However, TOD, Adventure, TI-Artist, and other instances where data or code is written or stored with the 0x06 opcode 'SAVE' should also work.

 

 

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2 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

Regarding 'SAVE' to PI.HTTPS...  to be clear it is PAB opcode 0x06 'SAVE', not TI BASIC keyword 'SAVE' that is supported. Most of the time, TI BASIC 'SAVE' issues an opcode 0x06 'SAVE' to the storage device. But, if in TI Extended BASIC, your program exceeds certain criteria or the mode is forced, the 'SAVE' keyword may perform opcode 'OPEN', 'WRITE', a bunch... and 'CLOSE' - the latter is not supported.

So no MERGE format or programs larger than 12k from XB, right?

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34 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

So no MERGE format or programs larger than 12k from XB, right?

I think this will be easier to fix than carry forward as an exception... with post on close. 

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3 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

Scroll back a few conversations for full cloud storage writeup. Your imagination is the limit. (or read: https://github.com/jedimatt42/tipi/wiki/Cloud) Just looks like directories and files to the TI. No feature penalties.

I just read the bit on using a WebDAV service.  I can see benefits to both methods.

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On 8/19/2021 at 12:19 PM, Ursus said:

TIPI / 32k
::::     >1000

I:::     >1100

:I::     >1200

II::     >1300

::I:     >1400

I:I:     >1500

:II:     >1600

III:     >1700

:::I     >1000 mem-disable

I::I     >1100 mem-disable

:I:I     >1200 mem-disable

II:I     >1300 mem-disable

::II     >1400 mem-disable

I:II     >1500 mem-disable

:III     >1600 mem-disable

IIII     >1700 mem-disable

 

Is this correct? 😊

Yes, that’s correct.  I’ll add this to the TIPI/32k wiki, along with a better picture.  

 

Thanks.

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On 8/19/2021 at 7:03 PM, jedimatt42 said:

Ideally people would be considerate and ship these with the crubase set to >1100 for optimal usage when no floppy drive is present.

This may be a dumb question, but what’s the downside of setting the TIPI CRUBASE to >1000?  I had assumed this was the better choice so it wouldn’t conflict with a real disk controller.

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