FinalGrom99 on the TI-99/8

[kl99]

Hi Guys! Hi Ralph!

 

Yesterday we tried out the FinalGrom99 cartridge on the 99/8, for me for the first time.

It is not showing up on the Menu Selection Screen.

The Menu Selection Screen is not based on numbers but letters, letter A is still Extended Basic II (stored in ROM), letter B is to set Speed.

 

We tried two different carts who were verifed before and after on a 99/4A to work.

 

Ciro told me he used the FlashRom99 on his 99/8, he never tried the FinalGrom99 yet.

Any other 99/8 users: please try it out as well on your machine, it could be a problem on my machine.

I think to remember that I used the XB 2.7 suite cart (Ubergrom) on my 99/8 with success.

 

Could it be the same problem that blocks the QI consoles from using the FinalGrom99 with success?

How is the status there?

 

How can I help to diagnose from here?

 

 

[+Ksarul]

The 99/8 definitely has the lockout function for ROM-only cartridges as part of the OS, so I would think that the FlashROM wouldn't work on it. On the FinalGROM, it depends where the FinalGROM's startup code is lurking. If it is in ROM, it is probable that the startup code isn't detected, similar to the detection failure in a V2.2 console. One other important thing to remember: if the startup code is in GROM, it has to be in one of the first four GROM bases, as the 99/8 only scans those on startup (unlike the 99/4A which scans the first 16).

[ti99iuc]

The 99/8 definitely has the lockout function for ROM-only cartridges as part of the OS, so I would think that the FlashROM wouldn't work on it. [...]

 

I was surprised too indeed

 

[kl99]

The available source code for the 99/8 Rom/Grom has the Rom only lock out. yes! correct!

However that available source code lists are not necessarily matching the compiled binaries of the Rom/Grom we find in Ciro's 99/8 machine.

We already wondered once why 3rd party cartridges are working on the 99/8 in Mame.

[fabrice montupet]

The FinalGROM 99 does'nt works on my 99/8 prototype #22 Rev1, due to its ROM v1.0 that reacts as the 4QI computer.

[kl99]

But the problem with the FinalGrom99 on the 99/4QI is not the Rom only lock out software (coming via v2.2). Afaik that is covered by always having a fake Grom Header.

The problem was some differences/missing signals on the cartridge boards on QI boards.

The problem is independent of the Grom0 software version, be it v1.0 or v2.2.

In the end we need Ralph to join the discussion I assume.

[fabrice montupet]

The problem was some differences/missing signals on the cartridge boards on QI boards.

I know that. The missing signals are CRUIN and CRUCLK-, they are missing on the QI computer.

The problem is dependant of the GROM0 and the hardware. My previous message was not enough detailled.

An other difference on the QI: the data bus of the cartrige port is isolated from that of the I/O port. But this not concerns the FinalGROM99.

[ralphb]

I'm so sorry, I'm really late to the party.

 

If I remember the issue correctly then the FinalGROM 99 menu is not showing up.

 

The FinalGROM 99 has its menu in GROM #3, and then only one instruction to jump to ROM >6010 via XML. I did that because of the ROM lockout, but I didn't know it wouldn't work on QI consoles. My analysis is not yet complete, but it seems that the TI menu code starts up all right (my QI machine has the standard GROMs.)

 

This indeed suggests it's a signal issue, but the CRU lines are not used.

 

Can you elaborate "the data bus of the cartrige port is isolated from that of the I/O port"? Does this also apply to the data bus?

[patrickmcmichael]

How did y'all get your hands on a 99/8?

[RickyDean]

How did y'all get your hands on a 99/8?

There were several prototypes that made it out to the world, and a few of our fine group have had the opportunity to grab them up as they became available. They have somewhat different configurations, due to the prototype nature.

[+Ksarul]

Yes, there are almost a dozen of us here with 99/8s, and just about every one of them is a little bit different.

[mizapf]

And from these prototypes we had the chance to dump all ROMs to get a somewhat "ideal TI-99/8" that you can enjoy in MAME. Well, just emulation, you might say, but otherwise it's hoping to get hold of those extremely rare (and expensive) prototypes.

[patrickmcmichael]

And from these prototypes we had the chance to dump all ROMs to get a somewhat "ideal TI-99/8" that you can enjoy in MAME. Well, just emulation, you might say, but otherwise it's hoping to get hold of those extremely rare (and expensive) prototypes.

 

Drooling with jealousy! Anyone get one of the few that had the built in p-code 4.x? The only thing I don't get is why TI was still throwing 9918 in there. Was it same amount of VRAM as 4a, or did they at least up that? Wasn't at least the 28 if not the 38 in use by then? On that note...my last TI had OPA's setup w/ the 58 and minus SoB overheating issue, I loved that setup! Funnelweb or whatever the Australian hack of TI writer was did a cool thing. They said, hey...since for word processing you don't need much VRAM, let's steal it and bring not just 80 col display, but multi-document editing into the mix. That sounds funny by today's standards, but for the TI it was a great, creative hack. Anyone put the F18A on the 99/8 yet? (Sorry if I'm diverging from original post topic about FinalGROM99 compatibility w/ the 99/8...I would LOVE to get my hands on a 99/8 if anyone gets a lead. If anyone had the dump of one of the few prototypes that had the later p-code version, it'd be really cool to replace that (in GROMS or wherever TI had that) subset of the chipset.

 

Ok...y'all are the reason I was up 'til 5am after a Greek midterm exam...I feel like that kid back in Toys 'R Us looking through the locked glass cabinets at all the upgrades I wanted for my new (and newly orphaned) machine of dreams. 2019 and still inspired!

[mizapf]

The TI-99/8 is, frankly speaking, a collection of weird decisions. I believe it would have never had any chance if it would have been brought to market. Not only the 9118 video processor (siimlar to 9918, but using 4K DRAMs), but why put Pascal into (G)ROM? I mean, in those days, Pascal surely had a better standing; by 1987 we already had C (kind of). Where systems started to show up with minimum ROM, everything to be loaded ("disk operating system"), widely expandable, TI went the opposite way and wedged even more ROM into the chassis.

 

The Geneve from Myarc did a lot of things much better than the 99/8 (but it was developed some years later).

[Casey]

The 99/8 I had many years ago for a time had the p-code system in it. It seemed to be exactly as the one that is emulated in MAME. It did not have a functional expansion port on the side of the console, so the only storage option available to me for it was cassette (I had nothing for the Hex-Bus interface). It would have been a great computer if the video chip had been upgraded to something more competitive in 1983.