cwilbar Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, MrFSL said: ... Of course I am being pedantic. I think canonical thought links IDE to 40 or 44 pin cabling for HDD and I believe the earlier versions of this IDE+ used this. The advantages of the CF interface (as I see it) are size, power, availability, portability, etc. The disadvantages are that, while you can find IDE to CF connectors everywhere for practically no money - I don't think anyone ever made a CF to IDE connector. I am not even sure if you could source a cable ribbon end for that small CF pins. search "compact flash extender" on ebay... there would be a start in fabricating one. Edited May 27, 2022 by cwilbar trimmed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFSL Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 35 minutes ago, cwilbar said: search "compact flash extender" on ebay... there would be a start in fabricating one. I knew if I said - "You can't" someone would say - "Yes, you can" ----- which, of course, is why I said it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwilbar Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, MrFSL said: I knew if I said - "You can't" someone would say - "Yes, you can" ----- which, of course, is why I said it. Thanks! NP ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Peter Rabitt Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) Tillek You were using IDE HD's on an Atari in the 80's? What interface were you using? Or were they SCSI? Well I have not found them, yet but I think I ran a 800xl 256k to atr8000 for the full high 5.25 disk drive (had a 8" also,not reliable tho) the to a Adaptec ACB-5500 card that controlled 4, 5 meg hard drives... I also had a 850 interface and a mio with a 24oo Hayes modem.. They may have been more parts to it as 35 plus years ago and I do not remember all the facts. As I find more things I remember more... I was hoping I could use the IDE interface with a scsi/sasi interface... Maybe I am looking in the wrong place and can not to it..I do remember the HD's had two ribbon cables and the normal power cable... Peter Edited May 27, 2022 by Peter Rabitt sp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Peter Rabitt said: I was hoping I could use the IDE interface with a scsi/sasi interface... Maybe I am looking in the wrong place and can not to it..I do remember the HD's had two ribbon cables and the normal power cable... Those would have been MFM(sometimes known as ST506/ST512) drives(both IDE and SCSI only use a single DATA cable), and you likely used them with the MIO via a SASI/SCSI to MFM bridge controller. I still have an MIO/bridge controller but with a 40MB Seagate ST251 MFM drive, although I haven't used it in years. MFM predates the IDE standard, which integrated the separate controller card into the drive, to read an MFM drive via a PC would require an older ISA bus computer and an ISA MFM controller card. The PC would still have issues with the drive because of the different partition/file structure. If you still have the bridge contoller it would be simpler to connect the drive to a PC SCSI interface, perhaps copying the drive to a virtual HDD image which could be then mounted/used with Altirra(it has MIO/SCSI controller device options, I don't know whether it could directly access a drive connected to a SCSI controller), I have copied virtual drive images used with Altirra to/from CF cards used with a SIDE cartridge. Edited May 28, 2022 by BillC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 MFM and RLL drives were the norm, but embedded scsi drives did exist. IDE came later of course, and later yet the scsi to ide bridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 I think your only hope is to hook your original drive(s) up as you previously used them, and copy the data to ATR images. If you still have the ATR8000 HDD system and it still works... congratulations, you have "the holy grail" of ATR8000 owners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, Larry said: I think your only hope is to hook your original drive(s) up as you previously used them, and copy the data to ATR images. I agree. But maybe the ATR8000 HDDs might work on a Black Box, I am pretty sure they won't work on the MIO. However, not ever having used a Black Box or ATR8000, I don't really know if the drives were interchangeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Actually, you can hook those up to the MIO... You just would likely need the older rom that let you enter in CHS. The adaptec ACB-5500 was a controller for ST506 drives and those are specifically listed in the MIO manual as being good (the ST506 and compatibles). In fact, I ran this configuration for TVAG before that HD died a year or two ago and I switched to the IDE2+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Of course, we're straying off topic here... but this might provide a better solution for the problem of getting the data off the ST506 and onto a card you could then use with the IDE2+ (there... back on topic). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 22 hours ago, Tillek said: Actually, you can hook those up to the MIO... You just would likely need the older rom that let you enter in CHS. The adaptec ACB-5500 was a controller for ST506 drives and those are specifically listed in the MIO manual as being good (the ST506 and compatibles). Actually what I meant was that one of these old ST506 drive that already had data written to it might not be readable on the MIO. I know that this is the case with the BB and MIO as the data is laid down differently on the drives. If you have a Blackbox drive with data on it, you cannot read that data on the MIO (and vice versa.) I was pointing out that this may also be the case with the ATR8000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, bf2k+ said: Actually what I meant was that one of these old ST506 drive that already had data written to it might not be readable on the MIO. I know that this is the case with the BB and MIO as the data is laid down differently on the drives. If you have a Blackbox drive with data on it, you cannot read that data on the MIO (and vice versa.) I was pointing out that this may also be the case with the ATR8000. Gotcha... that would be a fair point. That would be a matter of partition scheme I'm guessing then. I wonder if Giarc ever set up his ATR 8000 for SCSI? But I guess it's all moot if the drives are never found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Black Box has a better chance to read the drives, it has an inversion switch to let it read both MIO and BB drives....(MIO compatibility mode) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, bf2k+ said: If you have a Blackbox drive with data on it, you cannot read that data on the MIO (and vice versa.) I was pointing out that this may also be the case with the ATR8000. The MIO writes inverted similar to the Atari floppy drives(except the 815), by default the Black Box doesn't write inverted but also has an MIO compatible mode that does. I have used a 40MB HDD configured on an MIO with a Black Box. Altirra has many HDD device emulations, it should be possible to use one of them with the HDD as long as a compatible PC controller is available. This isn't much problem with IDE/SCSI devices, but MFM PC controller cards are rare/expensive. If there is still a SASI/SCSI to MFM bridge card it would be simpler to connect it to a SCSI controller. Edited May 29, 2022 by BillC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Peter Rabitt Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) On 5/28/2022 at 3:57 AM, Larry said: I think your only hope is to hook your original drive(s) up as you previously used them, and copy the data to ATR images. If you still have the ATR8000 HDD system and it still works... congratulations, you have "the holy grail" of ATR8000 owners! Well Larry I thank you and all the others are right in trying to find away to get the files off the Very Old Hard Drives, but I may not need to... I found the "maybe" back up copies I made before I had to shut down the BBS to move 300 miles away for work.. I just got the files I think I needed (Flashback) to work and now I have to re-find the copies I made... I love the MFM card and what it would do but for a hobby a little to much $$$ the price went up. It is about $220.00 now... I am still looking for the hd's and all the tools and cables that went with it..I found the MIO but it may have been giving to me, as it appears to have the input diodes smoked...Back to the IDE for the restore of the files once I find the disks... Peter Edited May 30, 2022 by Peter Rabitt sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 On 5/21/2022 at 2:10 PM, Simius said: The IDE+2 is available on order. Lead time up to 7 days. Got mine, thanks for the fast shipping, 2 questions: 1) Do you have a link or a name for the 2 pin cable needed for the interface? would something like this fit? https://www.benjoyincr.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=99763 2) Is there a recommended CF brand , something you used with the board ? Would industrial grade be better ? Something like this? https://www.newegg.com/p/14N-0009-003F4 Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) 1. External power is needed only when the IDE+ is used with unmodified 800XL. Necessary connector/terminals are included. Didn't you find them? https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/mx-5264-02/raster-signal-connectors-2-50mm/molex/50375023/ https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/nx2505-02pfs/raster-signal-connectors-2-50mm/joint-tech/a2506h-2p/ BTW the internal modification of the 800XL (+5V on 47 and 48 pins of the PBI connector) is most comfortable and makes the external power needless. 2. There is no special recommendation. Something like that is good, but I think you can find it much cheaper. I usually pay no more than $10 for 1GB one. Edited June 5, 2022 by Simius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Amazon still has some name brand CF cards at more attractive prices. And I've used a SD->CF adapter successfully on my D,E,F versions, although I typically do use a 4GB Transcend CF. I have industrial cards, and unless you're going to use them 24/7, they are no better than a regular card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Larry said: Amazon still has some name brand CF cards at more attractive prices. And I've used a SD->CF adapter successfully on my D,E,F versions, although I typically do use a 4GB Transcend CF. I have industrial cards, and unless you're going to use them 24/7, they are no better than a regular card. Good to know, thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 6 hours ago, Simius said: 1. External power is needed only when the IDE+ is used with unmodified 800XL. Necessary connector/terminals are included. Didn't you find them? https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/mx-5264-02/raster-signal-connectors-2-50mm/molex/50375023/ https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/nx2505-02pfs/raster-signal-connectors-2-50mm/joint-tech/a2506h-2p/ BTW the internal modification of the 800XL (+5V on 47 and 48 pins of the PBI connector) is most comfortable and makes the external power needless. 2. There is no special recommendation. Something like that is good, but I think you can find it much cheaper. I usually pay no more than $10 for 1GB one. Thanks, I got all the parts, was looking for something ready to be plugged into a power supply, as an alternative, though adding power to the PBI port is probably the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkolodziejski Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 @Simius I'm interested in IDE2+, but can't send You a message ;( Please count me in the order list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simius Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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