Vinnie D. Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 My Atari 400 happened to come with a free 410 tape drive. Unfortunately said tape drive does not work. I've successfully repaired Commodore 64 datasette drives before, so I thought this would be a simple matter of putting in new belts. Sadly that was not the case. I ask myself who designed this thing? It takes driving 3 rubber idler wheels (where a reasonable design would just use belts or gears) to transfer energy to actually turn the tape. These idler wheels have worn slick, cracked, deformed, or in some cases entirely fallen off. I've searched the forums and done what I can. I've replaced the belts, roughed up the surviving wheels, and applied belt dressing. My cumulative efforts got rewind, but not play working, and the fast forward has totally deformed. So I am left with 2 options. Replace all of the rubber wheels in this thing, in which case I'd need some very specific parts, and an affordable source for them. Or I could do something more drastic, and use the entire tape playing mechanism from another tape drive, and just keep the main board. The latter of those presents its own challenge, as I'd have to find something that would fit in the same case, and have the same button arrangement, or alternately just put the electronics of the 410 entirely into another tape drive. The C64's datasette is a good candidate. It's plentiful. It's inexpensive. The mechanism is durable, simple, and easy to repair, and I'm fairly sure I could just solder this board into it, or at most attach the read and write heads. Of course the latter, while the easiest to do means I lose the original 410's snazzy retro case, which would be a shame since it's not so much the utility of tape loading I'm looking for (as there are far better options these days), but rather to restore an old piece of hardware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevymad Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) You know the 410 requires a play command from the computer before it starts turning? Edited May 13, 2018 by chevymad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Can you describe your testing process in more detail? the tape drive should fast forward and rewind as long as it is powered. in order to play, you need to hold start, switch on the computer (youll hear a beep at this stage), press play, then enter/return (or any normal keyboard key really). the device will not play until you hit enter/return and can give the false impression of failure hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie D. Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 I don't think I was clear enough. We're well beyond the software stage of things here. This is a mechanical issue. When I attempt to load from tape the motor spins turning the main belt, but beyond that nothing else can happen, because all of the rubber is worn out and no movement can be transferred from there. Whether you call them tire wheels, idlers, or rubber wheels, the rubber parts are worn out, slick, deformed, and/or just plain missing. Because of this nothing can move. What I'm looking for is a solution to repair the actual mechanism that turns the tape, or replace it with one that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Working on 410s in something I hope to get to, one day. Despite its many flaws, it has a special place in my heart, as my first ever computer peripheral. I'm curious about the rubber wheels. Are you encountering these in the older version or the newer version of the 410? OLDER NEWER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie D. Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 It looks to be the newer version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 crikey it sounds like it's had a hard life. ive had 3 or 4 410s but not encountered this before.. being old tech, it would be hard to find replacement parts. you may want to consign it to 'parts-spec' and acquire another, its probably less costly. if the remaining rubber parts are removeable, you could soak them in a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol and methyl saclicylate to soften and re-profile them. this should restore their grip but it wont solve your missing parts issue.. maybe you match them up with modern equivalents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie D. Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 In spite of finding some disassembly tutorials, and various suggestions for dealing with the rubber problem, nothing worked. I've tried sanding, belt grip, rubber bands, rebelting, cleaning, and it actually seems to have made things worse. All attempts at reconditioning the rubber that was present only made it more slick. I could find no workable substitutes for the lost rubber. Meanwhile the fast forward wheel completely snapped off. I give up. I've fixed tape drives before. In most cases a simple new belt and head alignment gets it back in shape, but this thing is a nightmare of horrible design. Honestly I'm not even sure if a working 410 drive even exists anymore. The playing mechanism is just too reliant upon UN-serviceable rubber parts. I declare this thing dead. The only thing I could imagine would be to replace the entire playing mechanism, and solder the main board to something better designed, and as that's a gigantic hassle, I am seriously considering just gutting the entire thing for an SIO2SD case later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I've fixed tape drives before. In most cases a simple new belt and head alignment gets it back in shape, but this thing is a nightmare of horrible design. Honestly I'm not even sure if a working 410 drive even exists anymore. They do. Plenty of people on the forums have refurbished them with new belts and cleaning/aligning the heads. A search of the forum should turn up the success stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 If it turns out to be beyond repair, put in something like this: https://usb.brando.com/usb-cassette-mp3-player-ii_p01481c0035d015.html Yeah I know, it isn't anything to a working original but it now has at least some kind of use. b.t.w, there are much cheaper versions around, some with recording ability too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eizner23 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I'm trying to resurrect my 410 drive. Belts are in good shape, but the unit wont even fast forward or rewind. Spindle wont turn. Suspecting a power issue. Replaced the 2200uf filter cap in power supply although the original tested good. Looking at the schematic in service manual now and will trace power supply to see why motor is not turning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Ive never been a fan of the game 410, especially the later version. Not so much from a repair point of view but from a usability view. Many many too many times 410s have errored out on loading something that a 1010 rarely does for me. Of course the 1010 issue for me has always been a broken play key plastics. There are at least three versions of the 410 (one is called a 410p as it has its own removable plug) and the 1010 has two version but one of them has two different mechs (supposedly). As for the XC11 and 12... well Id like to add the 11 someday to my collection. As for a fantastic tape deck I look no further than the TI99/4 white or Black variant drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Ive never been a fan of the game 410, especially the later version. Not so much from a repair point of view but from a usability view. Many many too many times 410s have errored out on loading something that a 1010 rarely does for me. Of course the 1010 issue for me has always been a broken play key plastics. There are at least three versions of the 410 (one is called a 410p as it has its own removable plug) and the 1010 has two version but one of them has two different mechs (supposedly). As for the XC11 and 12... well Id like to add the 11 someday to my collection. As for a fantastic tape deck I look no further than the TI99/4 white or Black variant drive. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atari-XC11-Data-Recorder-for-Atari-400-800-XL-XE-Superb/312197424890?hash=item48b06aa6fa:g:w7EAAOSwNydbVkeC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atari-XC11-Data-Recorder-for-Atari-400-800-XL-XE-Superb/312197424890?hash=item48b06aa6fa:g:w7EAAOSwNydbVkeC Thank you... but at the 1:1.30 exchange rate to the US, we just hit 1200XL eBay prices for that. That's sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 410p - I recently acquired a 410 with this 6V DC 3.5mm removable power plug, never seen it before but nice to know it's an official variant. Last week I ordered a boxed Atari XC12 program recorder from BEST - U$D 59.95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebatari Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I had a problem with a 410 that I just purchased where the tape drive idler tire was hard as a rock and had a flat spot in it from the capstan being pressed on it for 30+ years. Tapes would get eaten if you didn't press stop right away. After much searching, I found these Danco showerhead rubber washers are the perfect fit and work great. They are Model #80925 and UPC: 037155014750. I found this 3 pack at my local hardware store for $1.99 US. The third photo shows the new idler tire installed. Now that the play mechanism works, I'm on to the other electrical issues that are causing problems. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) Good evening davebatari, Where did you buy this universal rubber washers ? At Home Depot ? I has four 410 are broken. Wow all of them are broken ! Easy to take apart inside and replace that black rubber belt above in your 1st photo ? I know there are 3 of belts. But your photo only has 2 rubber belts ?? SO do I have to buy 2 of them ? Edited November 23, 2020 by Caterpiggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Caterpiggle said: Good evening davebatari, Where did you buy this universal rubber washers ? At Home Depot ? I has four 410 are broken. Wow all of them are broken ! Easy to take apart inside and replace that black rubber belt above in your 1st photo ? I know there are 3 of belts. But your photo only has 2 rubber belts ?? SO do I have to buy 2 of them ? Danco (plumbing accessories supplier) can be normally found at The Home Depot, or Lowes, and even Ace Hardware stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebatari Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I bought it at my local Do it Best hardware store. www.doitbest.com Do it Best is similar to Ace and True Value, but they are another hardware Coop with stores nationwide. Their SKU number is 400249, if you need to special order it. My 410 is working now, after cleaning grime off all of the SIO pins. The only thing left is the computer has no control over when the motor starts or stops. It just runs when you hit play. I will be working on that issue in the coming days. Hope this helps repair a lot of 410s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Thank you davebatari , I will make a visit to ACE Hardware soon and get over with 1 of four 410 recorder and see IF it is works ! If it is works, then I will buy all rubber belts for 3 remaining ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Caterpiggle said: Good evening davebatari, Where did you buy this universal rubber washers ? At Home Depot ? I has four 410 are broken. Wow all of them are broken ! Easy to take apart inside and replace that black rubber belt above in your 1st photo ? I know there are 3 of belts. But your photo only has 2 rubber belts ?? SO do I have to buy 2 of them ? Home Depot doesn't appear to carry this particular part, but I did find the Danco 80925 at Lowes(only $1.99), Amazon, and some other stores I don't know. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Danco-11-16-in-Rubber-Washer/3712656 https://www.amazon.com/Leak-Preventing-Showerhead-Gasket-8-Inch-80925/dp/B004QONW4C/ref=sr_1_1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) Thank you BillC ! Lowes is even better close to my home ! I failed to understand , how can this rubber belt is prefect fit into 410 timing belts (3 of them). Because those rubber belt is different width ! There are link in UK that offer for 410 and has different width ! How is possible ??? Care to explain. A little off point , will those rubber belt at Lowes will also fit for 1010 (Hong Kong version) as well ??? Edited November 23, 2020 by Caterpiggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebatari Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Just to be clear, my post was not talking about replacing any of the 4 belts in the 410. I already replaced all of them earlier and that still didn't solve the problems with the play mechanism. Only when I replaced the rubber on the idler wheel shown in my photo did my 410 start playing tapes again. This rubber washer seems to work great for that. I hope this clears things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Caterpiggle said: Thank you BillC ! Lowes is even better close to my home ! I failed to understand , how can this rubber belt is prefect fit into 410 timing belts (3 of them). Because those rubber belt is different width ! There are link in UK that offer for 410 and has different width ! How is possible ??? Care to explain This isn't a belt, it's a rubber washer that replaces the rubber on a rollerl that has developed a flat spot with age. The deformed roller is part of the drive system. PS: IIRC leaving the PAUSE button engaged when the 410 is not in use will prevent the flat spot from developing Edited November 23, 2020 by BillC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) What ? Are you talking something else rather than regular timing belts ? Just for idler wheel shown only ? In that photo, right ? I apologies for misunderstand. Can you give an specific belts from Lowes that will work 410 & 1010 , regular 3 timing belts ? My apologies once again. Edited November 23, 2020 by Caterpiggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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