Retro Game Designer : Create your own games for Jaguar

[Machine]

I can not believe people are complaining about price....try and release something, anything and you will realize how much time and $ goes into putting a simple project together.(and this doesn't seem simple)

 

I personally feel it's a VERY fair price point. If you can't afford $30-45, the problem isn't the price point.

[+CyranoJ]

I can not believe people are complaining about price....try and release something, anything and you will realize how much time and $ goes into putting a simple project together.(and this doesn't seem simple)

 

People generally don't have a clue about these things, which is why "plz mak Tom Braider and Quak kwality titles" is so lol-tastic. The amount of design, coding, asset creation... it goes on and on.

[leech]

People generally don't have a clue about these things, which is why "plz mak Tom Braider and Quak kwality titles" is so lol-tastic. The amount of design, coding, asset creation... it goes on and on.

It is a shame that there isn't a mostly finished version of Tomb Raider floating about for the JagCD. Wasn't that one of the platforms it was supposed to be developed for? Ha, oddly that could have been one of the titles that could have saved it from being an almost completely useless add-on. But then again, that is a key thing, it was an add-on. One would think Atari would have learned from Sega.

 

But yeah, for something like Quake on the Jag, you would need to do a ton of optimizing the engine. It isn't like the Falcon where you can put in a 68060@100mhz to play it.

[Lost Dragon]

At the end of the day, people know deep down that the chances of anyone, be it an individual or team, attempting to write something on the Jaguar that is equivalent to the likes of MKIII, Quake, Magic Carpet, Tomb Raider, NFS, Road Rash or Resident Evil, just isn't going to happen.

 

I'm not knocking anyone's proof of concept exploration coding or discussion , far from it.

 

It's just a harsh reality that if these were going to happen, they would of been attempted when the Jaguar had the likes of I.D, Bullfrog, HVS etc coding for it.

 

Sure, a lot has been discovered about getting increased performance from the Jaguar in the years since Atari killed it off but as Cyrano J. and many others have pointed out, the sheer amount of work required to produce even a 16 bit era type title, let alone the likes of those named above, is immense.

 

Who would attempt such an undertaking for such a niche auidance?

[Lost Dragon]

It is a shame that there isn't a mostly finished version of Tomb Raider floating about for the JagCD. Wasn't that one of the platforms it was supposed to be developed for? Ha, oddly that could have been one of the titles that could have saved it from being an almost completely useless add-on. But then again, that is a key thing, it was an add-on. One would think Atari would have learned from Sega.

But yeah, for something like Quake on the Jag, you would need to do a ton of optimizing the engine. It isn't like the Falcon where you can put in a 68060@100mhz to play it.

Once more...

 

No..There was never a version of Tomb Raider or any other Core Design game of that era, started for the Jaguar, except for Soul Star.

 

Soul Star was the one and only title in development, team split up when Core Design sold, game never finished.

 

The Soul Star coders made clear it was the only Jaguar game being worked on and even that was based on the original Sega Mega CD version.

 

Jeremy Heath Smith made clear the Jaguar was only ever going to get Mega CD ports, not original titles, as Core could only afford to back a certain number of systems as they were a small company.

 

GA mean Magazine:Are you not even tempted by the Jaguar?

 

Jeremy Heath Smith:it’s a wonderful piece of kit.Some of our Mega CD stuff would translate onto it easily,but it also conflicts heavily with our current buisness strategy..

 

The P.R guy who gave the Press the mock up shots has made clear press knew they were fake and press ran them as Jag CD screens.

 

The damn myth of Tomb Raider starting life on Jaguar CD refuses to die, despite being put to bed by multiple sources from Core themselves. .

Edited May 19, 2018 by Lost Dragon

[Lost Dragon]

Or alternative post:

 

Please put me on the Quake/Resident Evil/Swagman/Road Rash/Tomb Raider waiting lists.

 

I will happily buy my 3rd Atari Jaguar just to play them.

 

Can i also be on the 4K/HDMI TV out Jaguar mod waiting list as well?

 

My current TV lacks a Scart port and RF just ain't what i shake these days.

[Zerosquare]

Guys... do you really want to see a topic about an actual release devolve into "games that never existed on the Jaguar and never will, episode #8901"?

 

Seriously. Think about the kind of message you're sending to homebrew developers here.

[Final Theory]

I would really like to see this kickstarter be successful, heck I have even started a few threads about it on other forums.... literally promoting it.

 

I'm just curious, NESmaker made their goal right away within days. So why is this kickstart not doing the same?

 

I know that there is a Playstation 1 homebrew scene and community. Are you telling me that literally nobody from over there is interested in this?

 

Did anyone post this over at SEGA-16? They have a big Genesis community, I'm sure some people over there would support this.

 

I don't mind doing the $30 for the single software version, but it comes with a splash screen. I really don't want that in my game... that's all.

[Swansea_Mariner]

Don't like what's on offer or the price point, don't buy it. Simples.

 

Looks excellent value for money to me.

[mmbe]

It looks like this Kickstarter is not getting much if any traction which is truly a shame. If it can do what it claims, I can't see an easier way to make a game. Not having to program code and using a drag and drop feature makes it a blessing for those wanting to try their hand at game creation. It removes the biggest problem (at least in my opinion) learning code. One can now focus on level design and graphic/sprite creation and most importantly making sure the game is fun to play.

 

Orion has done a lot for the Jaguar community and deserves better.

[GroovyBee]

Any developers that go for the "pro" versions are much more likely to want to see a return on their investment, so my money is on them get a game out the door.

[skip]

I'd just posted this on our retro gaming Facebook page and it was getting a bunch of interest...and it just came up on Kickstarter that it was cancelled 20 minutes ago That's a real shame. I hope it gets resurrected somehow, perhaps with an even bigger online push / campaign.

[Final Theory]

What it was cancelled? I don't believe it.

 

If the creator of the kickstarter comes back with a lower price I will back it 100%.

 

Orion, spread the word about your software in the communities, like the PS1 community, genesis community and dreamcast community. Spend many weeks building up hype about your software. Get everyone pumped up for it. Then create a group on Facebook like the one Joe did with NESmaker. Joe regularly talks to his backers and people who are using his NES software. Also make a more kickass promotional video for your kickstarter.

 

Relaunch the kickstarter with a low goal and low price point. I say $50 for the version where you export to all consoles. While it may be a low cost if many people back it you make out in the long run. You can do $50 for the software, but then add $50 dollars if you want to get an early version of the software as a beta.

 

I grew up with Genesis, Dreamcast, PS1 and I want to make a game (with NO SPLASH SCREEN) and sell it LIKE A BOSS!!!!

 

Also doing a kickstarter is a full time job. You have to be constantly promoting your kickstarter and product all the time.

 

Also I think the name is a little bland.... Retro Game Designer.....

 

Why not....

 

Retro Maker

 

Retro Dev Kit

 

Retro Magic

 

Retro Boss

 

Retro Engine

 

idk

Edited May 23, 2018 by Final Theory

[Orion_]

Orion, spread the word about your software in the communities, like the PS1 community, genesis community and dreamcast community. Spend many weeks building up hype about your software. Get everyone pumped up for it. Then create a group on Facebook like the one Joe did with NESmaker. Joe regularly talks to his backers and people who are using his NES software. Also make a more kickass promotional video for your kickstarter.

 

Relaunch the kickstarter with a low goal and low price point. I say $50 for the version where you export to all consoles. While it may be a low cost if many people back it you make out in the long run. You can do $50 for the software, but then add $50 dollars if you want to get an early version of the software as a beta.

 

I grew up with Genesis, Dreamcast, PS1 and I want to make a game (with NO SPLASH SCREEN) and sell it LIKE A BOSS!!!!

You think I just made the kickstarter and posted only here on AtariAge ? I posted on several PS1/Genesis/Dreamcast forums, and people have been posting the link to several other forums and sega fan websites, more than 20 websites talking about it.

I'm working on this tool since 2 months and talked about it on my twitter and facebook page each week, posted 4 videos of it during these 2 months to show progress

and yet it's still a failure, what can I do more ?

Oh and, you want a complete tool that can export to 4 platforms, with 4 full game engines, and possibility to make thousands of dollar from your games, and I only get 50$ as a reward ? what a joke !

This project is BURIED, go spend years of learning programming and make your game yourself.

[+CyranoJ]

Oh and, you want a complete tool that can export to 4 platforms, with 4 full game engines, and possibility to make thousands of dollar from your games, and I only get 50$ as a reward ? what a joke !

This project is BURIED, go spend years of learning programming and make your game yourself.

 

RAPTOR API and RaptorBasic+ are out there for free. Don't knock yourself out on the last bit, though

[skip]

talked about it on my twitter and facebook page each week

Have you got a link to your Facebook page? I couldn't find it, but admittedly I only had a quick look. FB is being a bit terrible with notifications and search lately.

 

I feel bad for you and somewhat surprised that it didn't pick up more traction.

 

I will admit that I only saw it here and on one single site / FB page I follow read. It didn't come up in any of my other many, many dozens of gaming / retro news feeds I read, with sites ranging from "big" ones like Kotaku and Gizmodo, to indie / retro gaming news sites, to Facebook pages, to smaller fan run blogs.

 

I personally honestly believe that with structured, targeted, and focused marketing / promotion it could strongly succeed in this current retro market (with the upswing of interest in all things retro over the last few years). I hope it's not buried forever, but I understand the frustration and commercial realities.

[saboteur]

For me pricing wasn't the problem and please don't take offence orion, but for me it would be waiting for the jag version until last.

 

I realise that the other consoles are probably where you would generate more interest but tbh I'd only want it for the jag - although i get that my code/game would be portable over all supported platforms as they came online.

 

As an aside would there be any mileage in selling the sprite/animation designer seperately ??

[+Saturn]

Sad to see this go. I looked this morning and saw there was like 42 days left. Plenty of time to pay for all my upscalers and dive into this for the full version.

I knew I should have dove in on day one!

[Final Theory]

Here are some more of my thoughts.

 

You said your other kickstarter for a genesis game also failed. I'm sure your products and ideas are great, but running a kickstarter is a skill in its own right. Take a poll before you do a kickstarter to get an idea of how many people will support it.

 

 

Oh and, you want a complete tool that can export to 4 platforms, with 4 full game engines, and possibility to make thousands of dollar from your games, and I only get 50$ as a reward ? what a joke !

 

Did you know that I made a retro game? And I only sold a handful of copies, currently I never profited a single dollar from my project. Remember it takes money and time to make the game in the first place. Having a low price of $50 means its low entrance fee to be involved in your product. Also note that some people may buy the software but then not like it and not use it. So sometimes it is hit and miss. I purchased Game Maker Studio 2 for $100 but I don't really like it and I feel that I would need a better computer to run it smoothly.

[+orpheuswaking]

Here are some more of my thoughts.

 

You said your other kickstarter for a genesis game also failed. I'm sure your products and ideas are great, but running a kickstarter is a skill in its own right. Take a poll before you do a kickstarter to get an idea of how many people will support it.

 

 

Did you know that I made a retro game? And I only sold a handful of copies, currently I never profited a single dollar from my project. Remember it takes money and time to make the game in the first place. Having a low price of $50 means its low entrance fee to be involved in your product. Also note that some people may buy the software but then not like it and not use it. So sometimes it is hit and miss. I purchased Game Maker Studio 2 for $100 but I don't really like it and I feel that I would need a better computer to run it smoothly.

 

You know why I think the Kickstarter was pulled? Your big mouth... We got your message in the first post you made, you didn't have to make every post about how it should be cheaper. Why not back it at the amateur price point and then ask to upgrade later?

 

Orion, I hope you don't completely trash this idea because of small minded people, Most of us in this forum are well aware of your skills.

Edited May 23, 2018 by orpheuswaking

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Orion I would have paid top $ to support this. Especially if it is the extension of Game Maker you were discussing before. It would be great to be able to develop for Dreamcast and Jaguar using the same setup. I wouldn't mind paying whatever start up fees or royalties involved. Its too bad you canned it so early on, I only just saw it. Hopefully you will have a change of heart. If not thats cool too. Best wishes man!

[Bratwurst]

Orion, I hope you don't completely trash this idea because of small minded people, Most of us in this forum are well aware of your skills.

 

Indeed a shame, I was very interested in the potential for this software package and was considering investing.

[ColecoGamer]

What the f*ck! I REALLY wanted this tool! Orion, PLEASE - I have DREAMED of a tool like yours! Me and others like me had no problem with the pricing.

 

I was going to ask you if it was possible to upgrade to different versions later, say - if you start with the amateur bundle first, if you could upgrade later to officially sell your games on cartridge.

 

This frickin sucks!!! I am genuinely pissed over this.

Edited May 25, 2018 by ColecoGamer

[ColecoGamer]

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Orion sells this tool.

 

Maybe he should ask for royalties on games sold using his tool? He could then justify selling his tool for less money. I dunno’, though...

[Final Theory]

Here are some quotes from the NESmaker group.

 

 

It looks like you need to pledge in the $300+ dollar range to get rid of the splash screen and sell your games. That's a hard sell for me. Still tempting.

 

 

 

I'm skeptical about the versatility of the tool. It looks like every platformer/rpg/shooter will have to use the same engine with not much help in the way of customizing them to do what you'd like them to do (i.e. NESmaker's input editor)

 

 

 

This seems sketchy as hell. A barely functional, unproven dev toolkit being promoted by a fresh FB account with two first names and three total friends.

 

 

 

I'm interested, but I don't know anything about this dude. With nesMaker, Joe and his team went all out to really talk to people, build the community, fight trolls and what not.

I love the genesis and master system, and would love to develop for them, but orionsoft is gonna need to do more to sell me on this right now. But I'm gonna follow it and see where it goes.

But I'll never ditch the nes for the genesis again. I did that once in 1993. That was a bad move. My parents had a one system or the other rule...God I kicked myself in the ass for that.

 

 

 

I think it's a plethora of reasons. Here's what held me back:

1. Not really showcasing the power of the tool correctly. When I learned about NESmaker, there were already 6 videos out explaining the functionality of the tool and how it had been used to create a real functioning game. For Retro Game Designer, there were only a few videos that showed a very incomplete product. With the promised scale vs. what has actually been done, it makes it hard to trust that the end result would've been great, worth the cost, or even finished.

2. Pricing. Requiring a splash-screen for something to be made to a debatably niche market seems like a barrier a hobbyist doesn't feel inclined to climb. That and segmenting the export options into various systems seems like an odd way to sell a tool. All in all it FEELS very cash-grabby, even if that's not the intent. Doesn't help the stretch-goals feel nearly identical to NESmaker.

3. Scale. For how large what was promised, what had been done, and the timeframe, I found it a little disconcerting that, from what I saw, only one person was creating the tool. Not saying it's impossible, but I like to back projects that have multiple people involved. It adds a small layer of accountability to the project, in that they have other people actively working on the project as well.

4. Lack of polish. This is relatively minor and shouldn't really be a deciding factor, but it gets really hard to back something that doesn't have a very well made explanation video or write-up for the Kickstarter. Marketing and design is a big deal, and you have to take it seriously if you're going to try to sell a product. Sadly, ending with an update that says, "EPIC FAIL" probably isn't going to reflect well on any future kickstarters he attempts either. :/ Sometimes products can sell themselves, but not often.

As an aside, getting to know the person behind the project is also pretty cool as well. Joe seems to put a lot of personal passion behind NESmaker and Mystic Searches and that kind of attitude can be infectious. I think if the creator would've spent more time developing the tool and the kickstarter before launching and really paying his dues, this project would've been much more successful.

 

 

 

I'm bummed. I was looking forward to Sega dev .. but orionsoft made some poor choices with this. It seems he got too hasty, and was motivated by the money and it shows.
It was mentioned above where he went wrong, and it sucks that's how it went down...