The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[Matt_B]

1 hour ago, leech said:

Well the point is that Sega is no longer remotely the same company that did the consoles.  Sure they own the IP, and publish games.  But they're a subsidiary of some company.  I can't remember all the details at the moment.  But basically they're Sega in name only.  That's pretty much where they are similar to Atari.  I do still like the current Sega though, they seem far more friendly to native Linux ports than SO many other companies out there.  Though weirdly they haven't released any Sonic games for Linux, but that Genesis collection on Steam was ported over.  Then again, it has been ported to pretty much every platform / operating system that is current

They're a subsidiary of Sega Sammy Holdings, which was created when they merged with Sammy - who mostly made Pachinko machines and still do - in 2004.

 

Unlike the many times Atari has changed hands, this wasn't a hostile takeover and they kept all the staff including the games development studios. Obviously a lot of people will have come and gone during the subsequent seventeen years, but a good chunk of the current senior management have been with the company since the 90s and worked their way up. Again, that's a lot more than you could say for Atari.

[Lord Mushroom]

19 hours ago, Matt_B said:

Sega are doing fine. They were just rated the best games publisher of 2020, even:

 

https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/2021-game-publisher-rankings/31

 

I don't think there's any danger of that happening to Atari any time in the foreseeable future.

They are of course doing much better than Atari. Partly because they have been in decline a shorter period of time, but also because they have been run better. Still, Sega is worth less than 5% of what Nintendo is worth.

 

Also remember that Atari´s arcade division was spun off. Atari would have been in a better position if they were still together (more IP and stronger brand). Atari is worth less than 7% of what Sega is worth.

[godslabrat]

And, not to put too fine a point on it, Sega is still in possession of properties today's gamers actually want, at least to some degree.  Atari is trying to prop itself up with RCT, Centipede, and a 100-pack that struggles to sell for even a dollar.

[Matt_B]

7 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

They are of course doing much better than Atari. Partly because they have been in decline a shorter period of time, but also because they have been run better. Still, Sega is worth less than 5% of what Nintendo is worth.

I'd have said that Sega's decline started in 1994 with the launch of the Saturn and ended in 2001 with the cancellation of the Dreamcast. Pretty much ever since then their finances have been headed in the right direction and they've yet to post a loss since the merger with Sammy.

 

Obviously, they're much smaller than Nintendo, but they always were. They just flattered to deceive during the Genesis/Megadrive era for a bit, but as soon as the Saturn came out it was back to business as usual:

 

 

...and people still wonder why they killed the Dreamcast.

 

7 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Also remember that Atari´s arcade division was spun off. Atari would have been in a better position if they were still together (more IP and stronger brand). Atari is worth less than 7% of what Sega is worth.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Atari. The company has changed hands so many times since it was formed and has been pretty much gutted at every turn to the extent that there's nothing left but a disparate collection of IP owned by a group of people who had nothing to do with its creation.

 

Sega isn't like that. They kept most of their staff even throughout periods of turmoil, kept their game studios open, made shrewd acquisitions like Creative Assembly, Two Point and Atlus, and have been dripping with critical acclaim for the past few years on account of that. Hell, they even still make arcade games, where Midway closed down what was left of Atari Games in 2003.

 

 

[Lord Mushroom]

39 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

I'd have said that Sega's decline started in 1994 with the launch of the Saturn and ended in 2001 with the cancellation of the Dreamcast. Pretty much ever since then their finances have been headed in the right direction and they've yet to post a loss since the merger with Sammy.

I have been googling Sega, and you are right. I thought they were mainly just capitalizing on old IP. I didn´t know they had had so much success in making new stuff. I am so out of touch with modern gaming that if you are not Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Blizzard, EA or Epic Games, you don´t even exist.

[leech]

2 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I have been googling Sega, and you are right. I thought they were mainly just capitalizing on old IP. I didn´t know they had had so much success in making new stuff. I am so out of touch with modern gaming that if you are not Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Blizzard, EA or Epic Games, you don´t even exist.

Ha, and me I am so not into newer gaming, I still won't except Microsoft as a game company.  Hell, they can barely make an email client I don't constantly curse.

[Lord Mushroom]

29 minutes ago, leech said:

Ha, and me I am so not into newer gaming, I still won't except Microsoft as a game company.  

I feel the same way. I even feel similarly towards Sony.

 

As I am writing this, there is a Sony cassette player two feet away from me. Still in use.

[leech]

1 hour ago, leech said:

Ha, and me I am so not into newer gaming, I still won't except Microsoft as a game company.  Hell, they can barely make an email client I don't constantly curse.

Accept, not Except... I shouldn't post anywhere when I just wake up...

44 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I feel the same way. I even feel similarly towards Sony.

 

As I am writing this, there is a Sony cassette player two feet away from me. Still in use.

Ha, I didn't  buy a Playstation until I got an old PS3 off of my brother (he had the launch version, that overheated at one point and died).  I'd managed to fix it with the heat gun trick once, and had it working for about 4 months... and then it melted the GPU (or at least that's what the repair shop I finally ended up taking it to said.  It was definitely dead.  And now that I think about it, I can't help but think that my old house still had some funky electrical issues, as it also claimed the life of my beloved Amiga Cyberstorm MK1 (melted the ram chips one day when I booted it up!).  Haven't had that issue with the fat PS3 model I have now.  Though I did have to replace the optical drive's laser in that.  I eventually got a PS4 and then upgraded to PS4 Pro (and gave the PS4 to my younger brother) so we could play games together remotely.

 

The only cassette player I still own is a nice Sony Walkman!  Though I only have a few tapes left! 

[Bill Loguidice]

10 hours ago, leech said:

Ha, and me I am so not into newer gaming, I still won't except Microsoft as a game company.  Hell, they can barely make an email client I don't constantly curse.

And Microsoft has been publishing games since 1979, so you really are way behind.

[leech]

17 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

And Microsoft has been publishing games since 1979, so you really are way behind.

Ha, publishing vs developing.  Still stands, they can barely write an email client, operating system, etc.  I'll stay away from their Xboxes, thank you very much.

Also, wtf game did they publish in 1979?  CP/M simulator? 

 

Edit: according to mobygames, earliest games published by them are in 1981.

Edited May 20, 2021 by leech
Added screenshot.

[Matt_B]

Microsoft Adventure came out in 1979 for the TRS-80. The more famous PC version followed in 1981.

 

http://www.trs-80.org/microsoft-adventure/

 

Sony also nearly entered the games market in the 1970s with this little beauty, but it was canceled at the prototype stage:

 

https://kotaku.com/sony-never-released-this-1970s-console-prototype-1773548912

 

Still, they're both Johnny-come-latelies compared to Magnavox. ?

[leech]

19 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Microsoft Adventure came out in 1979 for the TRS-80. The more famous PC version followed in 1981.

 

http://www.trs-80.org/microsoft-adventure/

 

Sony also nearly entered the games market in the 1970s with this little beauty, but it was canceled at the prototype stage:

 

https://kotaku.com/sony-never-released-this-1970s-console-prototype-1773548912

 

Still, they're both Johnny-come-latelies compared to Magnavox. ?

Ha, to be fair, I am fairly certain we were discussing consoles, not software publishing.  At least I was, with my comment about never buying an Xbox. 

 

MS Studios are great at buying developers I like and making games.  Just like EA rarely spews forth a good game these days.  Neither company generally deserves my money though, as they do things in irritating ways.

[Matt_B]

Yeah, it's really annoying when a games studio gets bought up by by a bigger publisher only to be closed down a few years later.

 

Still, Atari are historically just as guilty of that as EA and Microsoft. They just ran out of studios to close down several years ago and don't have the finances to afford to buy any these days.

[marss]

 

[The Historian]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:07 PM, marss said:

 

Gaming Historian.. pffffft

[+LS650]

1 hour ago, The Historian said:

Gaming Historian.. pffffft

Crikey, that dude is annoying to watch.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:54 PM, Stephen said:

Why do people keep forgetting all of the bullshit surrounding this company and this console?  Current Atari has earned every bit of hatred they experience.

By what I can tell from this and a few other VCS threads, it's solely because 40-50 years ago, Atari was run by some people who made some decent or occasionally great decisions, ergo that some how means that the people running the company now make non-stop great decisions and have unlimited Extra Lives to be forgiven with. 

 

 

 

[Matt_B]

Atari managed to change hands a couple of times and still retain some degree of relevance in that Tramiel made computers and consoles, and Infogrames made games.

 

Current Atari just licenses out IP and sues people though.

[leech]

3 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Atari managed to change hands a couple of times and still retain some degree of relevance in that Tramiel made computers and consoles, and Infogrames made games.

 

Current Atari just licenses out IP and sues people though.

I mean I guess they sort of publish games still, right?  They got some published on their own platform now, and got the Vault ported (again)

[Shaggy the Atarian]

"Sort of" is the key there...I'm confused by the attempt to compare Atari with Sega earlier in the thread.

 

Matt B hit the nail on the head - Atari is a licensing factory. This is where for a lot of us, it's not Atari anymore. 

 

Sega fans can still feel comfortable in calling them Sega, even though they don't make consoles anymore, because they still make their own games and have people on staff who design said games (I know a few of them personally, and many of them have been with the company for decades. Atari on the other hand, has zero people working for them that were there during the Bushnell/Kassar/Tramiel eras).

 

While Sega is creating brand new arcade machines, the best/most Atari can do is license Pong out and have someone else handle everything about it (code/art/mechanics/production/marketing/sales). Here's one game Sega is launching next week to both consoles & arcade; Sega also just announced new titles for Sonic, while Atari is still...waiting for a boat to arrive with more VCS units(best I can tell)?  

Edited May 29, 2021 by Shaggy the Atarian

[Matt_B]

8 minutes ago, leech said:

I mean I guess they sort of publish games still, right?  They got some published on their own platform now, and got the Vault ported (again)

Yeah, but they don't make games. Infogrames Atari owned a string of development studios and bankrolled the development of AAA juggernauts like Unreal Tournament 2004, Civilization III, Neverwinter Nights and Test Drive Unlimited. That put them at least on the fringes of the big league, although they also spent far too much developing crap games that went nowhere, eventually leading to their bankruptcy.

 

Still, that's a far cry from the company who just dribbles out a motley selection of indie games these days. Sure, they occasionally put out something quite playable like Tempest 4000 or Rollercoaster Tycoon Classic but that's entirely down to the external studios who made them, both of which seem rather keen not to give Atari any repeat business.

[+Stephen]

48 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Sure, they occasionally put out something quite playable like Tempest 4000

That my friend has 110% nothing to do with Atari in any way, shape, or form.  That was Llamasoft, namely Jeff Minter and Ivan Zorzin.  Developed independently and with zero input from Atari, except when those patent troll bastards sued them.  Then, after suing them, the scumbags faked screenshots of Tempest 4000 running on their at the time console that only existed in renders.  When questioned about it, Llamasoft said they were not contacted by Atari, they did not work on a Linux port, nor did one exist.

 

I'll never stop telling people that this form of Atari sued Llamasoft - the guys that have the best game on the system, because it's been a PS4 and PC game long before the VCS scam even came about.

[+x=usr(1536)]

All I know is that on April 30th June 8th, Gamestop is gonna bring us the device that lets us game, stream, and connect like never before.  LIKE NEVER BEFORE.

 

As long as they're able to stay in business for another week-and-a-half, that is.  Can't really say that'll be a certainty, but it is nice to think about.

[Matt_B]

18 minutes ago, Stephen said:

That my friend has 110% nothing to do with Atari in any way, shape, or form.  That was Llamasoft, namely Jeff Minter and Ivan Zorzin.  Developed independently and with zero input from Atari, except when those patent troll bastards sued them.  Then, after suing them, the scumbags faked screenshots of Tempest 4000 running on their at the time console that only existed in renders.  When questioned about it, Llamasoft said they were not contacted by Atari, they did not work on a Linux port, nor did one exist.

 

I'll never stop telling people that this form of Atari sued Llamasoft - the guys that have the best game on the system, because it's been a PS4 and PC game long before the VCS scam even came about.

I'll openly admit that I keep bringing up Tempest 4000 as bait. As a game, it's fantastic; a flash of brilliance reminiscent of the Atari(s) of old.

 

However, the more you look into it, the worse it makes the current incarnation of Atari look, as it exposes the reality of how they've operated post-bankruptcy.

 

Recommended readings for people still catching up:

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-03-18-jeff-minter-beyond-disgusted-with-atari-over-txk-block

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/07/tempest-4000-finally-lives-after-delays-legal-threats-but-whats-up-on-pc/

 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/935946-atari-vcs-is-fake-tempest-4000-developers-call-out-atari-for-lying-about-their-game-running-on-the-system/

 

Llamasoft are still pretty awesome though. Anyone who has a VR headset sitting around gathering dust should check out some of their recent games.

 

 

[godslabrat]

14 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

All I know is that on April 30th June 8th, Gamestop is gonna bring us the device that lets us game, stream, and connect like never before.  LIKE NEVER BEFORE.

 

As long as they're able to stay in business for another week-and-a-half, that is.  Can't really say that'll be a certainty, but it is nice to think about.

GameStop will sell anything they can to keep the lights on, from Funko pops to novelty footbaths.  If the "release" of the VCS is limited to GameStop, I can't imagine it would be significant enough to even warrant a mention in the real world.