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The Atari VCS Controversies Thread


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49 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I'll never stop telling people that this form of Atari sued Llamasoft - the guys that have the best game on the system, because it's been a PS4 and PC game long before the VCS scam even came about.

But then you would be wrong, as Tempest 4000 still isn't on the system.  ?

 

To be fair to that law suit, Llamasoft didn't have the rights to make a Tempest game without Atari.  Let's be honest here.  If one of the few games that you still owned the name to and had probably THE highest success with for decades as a single game that screams your company's name, and someone is just slinging it around without giving you a cut, wouldn't you sue?  I am not saying it is right, but companies are basically assholes and only care about money.  That all got settled anyhow and in theory the game will eventually come out for it.

 

I may be a bit bitter as I am still waiting for Polybius to come out for Linux...

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11 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

GameStop will sell anything they can to keep the lights on, from Funko pops to novelty footbaths.  If the "release" of the VCS is limited to GameStop, I can't imagine it would be significant enough to even warrant a mention in the real world.

There is something amusingly appropriate about the shambling corpse of zombie Atari choosing the nearly-dead husk of GameStop to carry their system.  It's like a symbiotic race to the death, though neither one is likely to be the single thing that kills the other.

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7 minutes ago, leech said:

But then you would be wrong, as Tempest 4000 still isn't on the system.  ?

 

To be fair to that law suit, Llamasoft didn't have the rights to make a Tempest game without Atari.  Let's be honest here.  If one of the few games that you still owned the name to and had probably THE highest success with for decades as a single game that screams your company's name, and someone is just slinging it around without giving you a cut, wouldn't you sue?  I am not saying it is right, but companies are basically assholes and only care about money.  That all got settled anyhow and in theory the game will eventually come out for it.

 

I may be a bit bitter as I am still waiting for Polybius to come out for Linux...

It's on the system if you install Windows. Go on, it'll make it 1000x better than it is with AtariOS, even if still somewhat underwhelming as a PC. ?

 

They weren't making a "Tempest" game without Atari either. The game was rather called TxK, a nod towards those who knew Tempest 2000 and 3000 as T2K and T3K but quite distinct from the name that Atari had trademarked. It only became Tempest 4000 after Atari ended up publishing the game as part of the settlement.

 

Rather, the suit was about copyright. Atari might have had a case if Llamasoft had used any of the assets from the original game, such as the code, the graphics or the music. However, they hadn't. It was all new. It pretty obviously borrowed certain elements of game design but they're generally not considered to be copyrightable assets and nobody, to my knowledge, has ever won a case that actually went to court on such grounds. The problem for Llamasoft was that they're just two guys in a farmhouse in Wales; they could neither afford nor take the time out to defend a lawsuit, so had little option to fold.

 

Polybius apparently runs under Proton, by the way.

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1 hour ago, Matt_B said:

It's on the system if you install Windows. Go on, it'll make it 1000x better than it is with AtariOS, even if still somewhat underwhelming as a PC. ?

 

They weren't making a "Tempest" game without Atari either. The game was rather called TxK, a nod towards those who knew Tempest 2000 and 3000 as T2K and T3K but quite distinct from the name that Atari had trademarked. It only became Tempest 4000 after Atari ended up publishing the game as part of the settlement.

 

Rather, the suit was about copyright. Atari might have had a case if Llamasoft had used any of the assets from the original game, such as the code, the graphics or the music. However, they hadn't. It was all new. It pretty obviously borrowed certain elements of game design but they're generally not considered to be copyrightable assets and nobody, to my knowledge, has ever won a case that actually went to court on such grounds. The problem for Llamasoft was that they're just two guys in a farmhouse in Wales; they could neither afford nor take the time out to defend a lawsuit, so had little option to fold.

 

Polybius apparently runs under Proton, by the way.

Along with just about everything, but native is always better.  Well, from the perspective that I feel like a developer gives a shit about supporting their users.  Yeah, sorry Windows never makes anything better :P  Found an interesting new thing that Windows 10 has been doing... where if it detects a piece of hardware, it'll pop up a 'install my utilities for the configuration of this thing' you know, those things that no one installs off the CD that comes with so much software because it's usually garbage that sits in your system tray...

 

But yes, Proton is awesome.  I'll have to test SteamVR + Proton to see if Polybius works on my Index.  Should be a bit better than the PSVR version, as the backlight on it is a bit too bright.

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I'll never understand why the VCS community isn't actively raising hell about the fact that T4K still isn't officially on the system, even when considering deep brand loyalty (It doesn't count that you can install the PC version on there - talking about an official port, which is exactly what Atari advertised when they first started begging for money).

 

It's not surprising that Atari has pulled a bait & switch with the VCS, just that the consumers who have "invested" into the thing don't seem to care enough to cause Atari a major headache until they live up to their promises.

 

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3 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I'll never understand why the VCS community isn't actively raising hell about the fact that T4K still isn't officially on the system, even when considering deep brand loyalty (It doesn't count that you can install the PC version on there - talking about an official port, which is exactly what Atari advertised when they first started begging for money).

 

It's not surprising that Atari has pulled a bait & switch with the VCS, just that the consumers who have "invested" into the thing don't seem to care enough to cause Atari a major headache until they live up to their promises.

 

The faithful are insisting that the very fact that l'Atari managed to deliver anything, at all, is proof that they won and no criticism of the project or the company was ever justified.

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54 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I'll never understand why the VCS community isn't actively raising hell about the fact that T4K still isn't officially on the system, even when considering deep brand loyalty (It doesn't count that you can install the PC version on there - talking about an official port, which is exactly what Atari advertised when they first started begging for money).

 

It's not surprising that Atari has pulled a bait & switch with the VCS, just that the consumers who have "invested" into the thing don't seem to care enough to cause Atari a major headache until they live up to their promises.

 

Wasn't there something about Netflix for moms? Maybe just a false memory...

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14 hours ago, leech said:

Yeah, sorry Windows never makes anything better

Except for the thousands of games it supports natively, drivers that just work, etc.  It's ok though - I hear that 2021 will be the year of Linux on the desktop :)  Just like I have been hearing for the past 20 years or so.

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1 hour ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I'll never understand why the VCS community isn't actively raising hell about the fact that T4K still isn't officially on the system, even when considering deep brand loyalty (It doesn't count that you can install the PC version on there - talking about an official port, which is exactly what Atari advertised when they first started begging for money).

 

It's not surprising that Atari has pulled a bait & switch with the VCS, just that the consumers who have "invested" into the thing don't seem to care enough to cause Atari a major headache until they live up to their promises.

 

Why would they?  They don't care that all the screenshots shown were fake, they don't care the controllers displayed were fake, they don't care about the $3 million Atari took "to build a community".  Atari could kill dogs and BBQ them in the street and I don't think people would so much as bat an eyelid.

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1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah I remember when they showed it playing on an early VCS.

 

Until it magically became "for illustrative purposes".

Yeah - what they showed it playing on was a lump of plastic with a battery powered power LED and a fake controller.  That's OK though.  The brand loyalists insist that they had a presence at multiple E3 shows, even though they shacked up in a cheap motel across the street.

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14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Why would they?  They don't care that all the screenshots shown were fake, they don't care the controllers displayed were fake, they don't care about the $3 million Atari took "to build a community".  Atari could kill dogs and BBQ them in the street and I don't think people would so much as bat an eyelid.

Well, most people would, but there would be that small group that would say how innovative it is that they're grilling dogs with a Fuji logo on them, so shut up and take my money, does it come with bluetooth speakers, maybe they can grill E.T. carts next, Atari is BACK!, etc., etc.

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8 hours ago, Stephen said:

Except for the thousands of games it supports natively, drivers that just work, etc.  It's ok though - I hear that 2021 will be the year of Linux on the desktop :)  Just like I have been hearing for the past 20 years or so.

well now I have to take everything you've ever said with a grain of salt, as Windows has been garbage for the past 20 years.  Definitely not on the level of 'just works'  Trying playing older windows games on Windows 10... Ha, year of Linux desktop came and went, just no one noticed, or keeps pushing the goal post along because they have reasons to just keep using the crap microsoft feeds them.  Hell MS even released EDGE for Linux... oh and vscode, etc...

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9 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

I'll never understand why the VCS community isn't actively raising hell about the fact that T4K still isn't officially on the system, even when considering deep brand loyalty (It doesn't count that you can install the PC version on there - talking about an official port, which is exactly what Atari advertised when they first started begging for money).

 

It's not surprising that Atari has pulled a bait & switch with the VCS, just that the consumers who have "invested" into the thing don't seem to care enough to cause Atari a major headache until they live up to their promises.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been all that interested in T4k.  Like T2k is pretty much the peak of that game, and anything else is just 'more levels'.  Or maybe it's because T3k I heard varying reviews about.  Or maybe it's because I'm terrible at T2k, but T4k was never a selling point for me at all...

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On 5/28/2021 at 7:55 PM, godslabrat said:

GameStop will sell anything they can to keep the lights on, from Funko pops to novelty footbaths.  If the "release" of the VCS is limited to GameStop, I can't imagine it would be significant enough to even warrant a mention in the real world.

Now, in my tired state, my sarcasm detector malfunctioning again,   I was about to refute this with my usual GameStop comment about them selling everything except what people want (like when I wanted a Flashback, but wanted Paddles and HD,..Or BITDO controllers, etc....) and then I re-read it,  This time not skipping half of the words...And saw Funko pops and then novelty footbaths.   When I hit Novelty Footbaths,  I nearly spurted chocolate malt Ovaltine right out my Goddanged nose!  And while I'm still 100% sure it'll kick Nutari's sorry asses,  the legions of rabid fanboys and a certain head man who doesn't seem to allow discussion (sometimes at all) before spouting market research and family friendly couch co-op blah blah repeat...have dampened my enthusiasm for it.   (Don't worry..Not really talking about it here)...Also, well...Kudos Labrat! You often put into words what I cannot...

On 5/28/2021 at 8:13 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

There is something amusingly appropriate about the shambling corpse of zombie Atari choosing the nearly-dead husk of GameStop to carry their system.  It's like a symbiotic race to the death, though neither one is likely to be the single thing that kills the other.

Sure,  you say that now, but it's probably gonna bring in tens of people!

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4 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

Now, in my tired state, my sarcasm detector malfunctioning again,   I was about to refute this with my usual GameStop comment about them selling everything except what people want (like when I wanted a Flashback, but wanted Paddles and HD,..Or BITDO controllers, etc....) and then I re-read it,  This time not skipping half of the words...And saw Funko pops and then novelty footbaths.   When I hit Novelty Footbaths,  I nearly spurted chocolate malt Ovaltine right out my Goddanged nose!  And while I'm still 100% sure it'll kick Nutari's sorry asses,  the legions of rabid fanboys and a certain head man who doesn't seem to allow discussion (sometimes at all) before spouting market research and family friendly couch co-op blah blah repeat...have dampened my enthusiasm for it.   (Don't worry..Not really talking about it here)...Also, well...Kudos Labrat! You often put into words what I cannot...

Sure,  you say that now, but it's probably gonna bring in tens of people!

Arrested Development Tobias GIF

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13 hours ago, leech said:

well now I have to take everything you've ever said with a grain of salt, as Windows has been garbage for the past 20 years.  Definitely not on the level of 'just works'  Trying playing older windows games on Windows 10... Ha, year of Linux desktop came and went, just no one noticed, or keeps pushing the goal post along because they have reasons to just keep using the crap microsoft feeds them.  Hell MS even released EDGE for Linux... oh and vscode, etc...

The same could be said about you with your extreme bias against Microsoft. If you're a reasonable person, you can not like a company or product for reasons of your own and still acknowledge its value. Windows 10 is more than fine and works on everything from handhelds to desktops, touchscreen or otherwise, and is certainly the de facto standard when it comes to PC gaming. To say that Windows 10 in a blanket manner is no good without reason is just silly. Sure, it's not perfect, but then what OS ever was, is, or will be?

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12 hours ago, Matt_B said:

It's easy to say something wasn't a selling point for the VCS when it didn't really have any selling points at all. ?

^This. Even before the project became publicly known that was always a big sticking point with me. I always say you have to have a consumer-facing reason, even if it's not a particularly good reason, to produce and market a product. Of course, with a more aggressive price point, a reason becomes less important. Ultimately, the price point went in the wrong direction, particularly since it released after the PS5 and Xbox Series S/X.

 

Heck, the Xbox Series S offers many times the full performance games and apps, and is also a much better emulation machine at $299.99, $100 less than what the VCS 800 is going for now.

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51 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

The same could be said about you with your extreme bias against Microsoft. If you're a reasonable person, you can not like a company or product for reasons of your own and still acknowledge its value. Windows 10 is more than fine and works on everything from handhelds to desktops, touchscreen or otherwise, and is certainly the de facto standard when it comes to PC gaming. To say that Windows 10 in a blanket manner is no good without reason is just silly. Sure, it's not perfect, but then what OS ever was, is, or will be?

1) telemetry that no one asked for?  Check

2) preinstalled bloat straight from MS? Check

3) inconsistent control panel interfaces and cinstant changing of the interface so that help pages for one version no longer applies to another?  Check

4) constantly trying new versions to test more lock in?  Check

5) always trying to get you to link an email account to your login / settings?  Check

 

I can go on if you'd like.  But sure no reasons.  ?  These are all from just a standard non-oem install too.  OEMs do even more terrible things to it.  Gamer's Nexus did a video about how terrible Dell's performance is because their own apps just suck away CPU. 

 

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58 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

^This. Even before the project became publicly known that was always a big sticking point with me. I always say you have to have a consumer-facing reason, even if it's not a particularly good reason, to produce and market a product. Of course, with a more aggressive price point, a reason becomes less important. Ultimately, the price point went in the wrong direction, particularly since it released after the PS5 and Xbox Series S/X.

 

Heck, the Xbox Series S offers many times the full performance games and apps, and is also a much better emulation machine at $299.99, $100 less than what the VCS 800 is going for now.

Yeah, it needed to stay at ~300 including a joystick.  Also should have come out in the 'in-between' of last generation consoles and the now current one.  If it had launched when they originally said it would, and they hadn't done all of the mid-shady shit and only had the game watch lording over them like a dark cloud, they probably could have at least doubled their numbers... ha, yeah maybe not much, but in the grand scheme of things, mistakes were made.

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15 hours ago, leech said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been all that interested in T4k.  Like T2k is pretty much the peak of that game, and anything else is just 'more levels'.  Or maybe it's because T3k I heard varying reviews about.  Or maybe it's because I'm terrible at T2k, but T4k was never a selling point for me at all...

Sure, Tempest itself isn't everyone's cup of tea, and it dwindles the more psychedelic the game became, but the point is more this: Out of all Atari's older properties, the Tempest remakes have stood out for several reasons. They've helped sell hardware. That was certainly true of the Jaguar, and was to a lesser degree on the NUON, and Atari obviously knew enough about how loved Minter's work is to show that game off when they were pitching the entire concept to the public. It's enough that if you watch the Indiegogo pitch video, Tempest 4000 takes center stage, being the only game mentioned in the narration, particularly when they are talking about how there's "so much more" that the VCS would offer in modernizing that wonderful 2600 experience. 

 

This would be like Nintendo showing off Wii Sports for the Wii, then not having Wii Sports on the system or advertising a Spider-Man movie then not putting Spider-man in it. Those fandoms would get pretty vocal about being duped, but in the wonderful world of today's Atari, we're supposed to find that as a feature, not a bug (then go and reserve our room at the Atari Hotel)!

 

Dope Fresh GIF - Dope Fresh Zoolander GIFs

 

 

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2 hours ago, leech said:

1) telemetry that no one asked for?  Check

2) preinstalled bloat straight from MS? Check

3) inconsistent control panel interfaces and cinstant changing of the interface so that help pages for one version no longer applies to another?  Check

4) constantly trying new versions to test more lock in?  Check

5) always trying to get you to link an email account to your login / settings?  Check

 

I can go on if you'd like.  But sure no reasons.  ?  These are all from just a standard non-oem install too.  OEMs do even more terrible things to it.  Gamer's Nexus did a video about how terrible Dell's performance is because their own apps just suck away CPU. 

 

I guarantee you that the average consumer doesn’t care about at least 4 of those 5 points listed. I don’t even get what three of them are. No one is gonna buy the VCS because of “telemetry” issues with Windows 10. Why are you even talking about this, other than to give people on here another example of the contortions VCS “fans” are putting themselves through to create relevancy.  If you like the VCS (it’s okay to like it!) then great, but honestly no one else is going to care if they don’t already.

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