The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[zzip]

5 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Haha- got it. I could see the VCS and Amico folks throwing that at each other. Between the two, I find the Amico more interesting, but my skepticism regarding that console has been rising lately as they post more videos.

I think some of the Amico games do look more interesting too.   If I was picking these consoles based on games in their games store, I'd go with that. 

[Mockduck]

I still think $300 for a 4K in Windows 10 mini PC that is the nicest looking console ever made and has a lot of versatility available isn't a bad deal, but clearly I'm not shopping at the right computer stores. On top of that the actual AtariOS experience didn't suck (in 2k), which was nice to see, and curated a really great list of games for it. So all said and done the hardware alone was worth my $320 after tax and the fun I've had with it this year is just a great bonus. It will have done good things, regardless of what anyone else thinks, and it will be a killer thing in my house for probably at least a few years to come. And then a presumably good emulator thing for even longer.

[jerseystyle]

5 minutes ago, Mockduck said:

I still think $300 for a 4K in Windows 10 mini PC that is the nicest looking console ever made and has a lot of versatility available isn't a bad deal, but clearly I'm not shopping at the right computer stores. On top of that the actual AtariOS experience didn't suck (in 2k), which was nice to see, and curated a really great list of games for it. So all said and done the hardware alone was worth my $320 after tax and the fun I've had with it this year is just a great bonus. It will have done good things, regardless of what anyone else thinks, and it will be a killer thing in my house for probably at least a few years to come. And then a presumably good emulator thing for even longer.

Do you think the console would’ve had more positive buzz if they pushed it as you described from the beginning? Because what you are saying makes sense to me. Their marketing seemed to be much more all over the place than that and the muddled messaging probably didn’t help. 

[+frankodragon]

Nothing to see here.  Just a double post.  

[+frankodragon]

4 hours ago, toiletunes said:

 Why did you say that?

 

You must really hate EVERYTHING  about Atari. Why are you even here, do you secretly work for Nintendo??

Yes.  Roof Pooper is coming for the Switch. 

[zzip]

11 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Do you think the console would’ve had more positive buzz if they pushed it as you described from the beginning? Because what you are saying makes sense to me. Their marketing seemed to be much more all over the place than that and the muddled messaging probably didn’t help. 

It was fairly early on that they announced it would be a PC.   I remember them saying the idea came from watching kids trying to play Minecraft on a laptop, so they designed a console-like device that could do that..   PC Minecraft has the Java edition allows mods, and that's something other console editions don't--   In fact that's one of the things I'm hoping is my kid will start playing Minecraft Java on the VCS and stop monopolizing our PC.

 

But overall, the marketing around VCS is kind of muddled.   It seems mostly centered around nostalgia rather than what you'll actually use it for.  

[Leeroy ST]

16 hours ago, Djmicklovin said:

I love these doom and gloom posts. Blows my mind that there are people that hate Infogrames on Atariage forums...  

Fixed, I think you forgot something in your original edit. Your welcome.

[+x=usr(1536)]

14 hours ago, Djmicklovin said:

Spawn Wave's Atari VCS video got over 500k views

That's as may be, but views don't translate out to sales in this case.

 

14 hours ago, Djmicklovin said:

I've seen your name enough times on here to know better.

 

14 hours ago, Djmicklovin said:

Okay there's being critical of a product and being a crazed stalker troll.

Interesting how those two statements juxtapose, isn't it?

 

13 hours ago, Djmicklovin said:

Time for you boomers to move on.

I love it when those who think they know their audience don't.  Kids these days!

[Albert]

Djmicklovin's been banned from the thread, so he won't be responding to any more posts.

 

 ..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

22 hours ago, godslabrat said:

The word "doornail" comes to mind.

More like a doorstop.

 

Originally I just wanted an Atari style lunchbox. Now we didn't get even that.  

[+Cafeman]

This was the conclusion of the story that I expected, not disappointed. 

[Draxxon]

3 hours ago, zzip said:

I think it's interesting to try to explain the phenomenon by "who is threatened by it?".    In general I believe console wars and online hate boil down to people feeling threatened by the thing they didn't buy, otherwise it's not worth the energy to engage in such things. 

I am 100% guilty of this.

 

IDGAF, at least I'm honest. lol.  Zzip, you are completely correct IMO.

But I do stand by what I said. Where is the must have game to justify blowing the $400? It would have to be a game like Primal Rage 2/3. It cant be a retro compilation, a "recharged" classic or some indie homebrew game. It needs to be something new and modern, just like, my opinions man.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Draxxon

[82-T/A]

Has anyone actually said it's dead? It seems to be a ridiculous idea that a system is dead because no one is hearing anything. The Atari VCS has a relatively limited reach from the beginning, I think we all knew this.

 

I'm going to try not to get too many people upset, because I usually insert some sentence where I show everyone how arrogant and cool I think I am, and then make fun of everyone else because I think they're dorky and less cool than me. So I'll skip that and just show intent. I don't play games much, but CONSOLE systems in general are dying. YES... we've had that discussion multiple times, and if I could find the post where I finally took the time to go through production numbers of every system... every XBOX and Nintendo and PlayStation system continued to decrease in numbers, except for PlayStation which had more numbers for PS2, and then continued to drop off. Fewer and fewer people are buying console systems.

 

Atari VCS is a system for older people (Gen-Xers), and Millennials who are hipster (which is OK if they don't dress like weirdos).

 

They've already produced the system, and I assume they've made their money back on the pre-orders. People will likely continue to buy them. The sales model for the VCS makes it simple for a vendor to join and produce a game. You have AntStream, which I never would have gotten if it weren't for the VCS.

 

I like my Atari VCS... my wife and I play it quite often, and I'm looking forward to more games. I've purchased most of the ones that have been made available on the store. I'll probably buy a second one.

 

 

[toiletunes]

8 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

It's not dead, nor will it be so long as a person enjoys and uses it!

I feel the same way about the 7800, and that's been dead for about 30 years.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by toiletunes

[sn8k]

4 hours ago, Rick Dangerous said:

I own two (am trying to sell one) it's a fun system but not $400 fun.  For $200, if they were readily available to consumers, it would make sense.  For $400 it's just way too underpowered and not enough on offer to entice people.

 

It seems like its not viable for Atari to sell them for $200, so it's probably not a viable product.   But i'll enjoy it while it lasts and for now had me playing Steam on my TV which is cool.  That's what the system made me realize i really want i guess; a Windows gaming PC in console size to hook up to my TV for Steam, GOG, and other storefronts, etc. 

Stop trying...... I got $200 to give you lol

 

 

[+Sauron]

8 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

Has anyone actually said it's dead? It seems to be a ridiculous idea that a system is dead because no one is hearing anything. The Atari VCS has a relatively limited reach from the beginning, I think we all knew this.

 

I'm going to try not to get too many people upset, because I usually insert some sentence where I show everyone how arrogant and cool I think I am, and then make fun of everyone else because I think they're dorky and less cool than me. So I'll skip that and just show intent. I don't play games much, but CONSOLE systems in general are dying. YES... we've had that discussion multiple times, and if I could find the post where I finally took the time to go through production numbers of every system... every XBOX and Nintendo and PlayStation system continued to decrease in numbers, except for PlayStation which had more numbers for PS2, and then continued to drop off. Fewer and fewer people are buying console systems.

 

Atari VCS is a system for older people (Gen-Xers), and Millennials who are hipster (which is OK if they don't dress like weirdos).

 

They've already produced the system, and I assume they've made their money back on the pre-orders. People will likely continue to buy them. The sales model for the VCS makes it simple for a vendor to join and produce a game. You have AntStream, which I never would have gotten if it weren't for the VCS.

 

I like my Atari VCS... my wife and I play it quite often, and I'm looking forward to more games. I've purchased most of the ones that have been made available on the store. I'll probably buy a second one.

 

 

As someone who seems to have a much more level-headed opinion of the system based on your previous posts, would you say the system is worth $400? And if not, what price point do you think would hit the sweet spot for what it offers? Would like to hear this from someone whose opinion of it isn't completely based on emotions.

 

 

[zzip]

29 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

Atari VCS is a system for older people (Gen-Xers), and Millennials who are hipster (which is OK if they don't dress like weirdos).

 

They've already produced the system, and I assume they've made their money back on the pre-orders. People will likely continue to buy them. The sales model for the VCS makes it simple for a vendor to join and produce a game. You have AntStream, which I never would have gotten if it weren't for the VCS.

 

Yeah, we don't know what their break-even point is.  I'd be surprised if they hit it with just the pre-orders, but who knows? 

 

30 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

I don't play games much, but CONSOLE systems in general are dying. YES... we've had that discussion multiple times, and if I could find the post where I finally took the time to go through production numbers of every system... every XBOX and Nintendo and PlayStation system continued to decrease in numbers, except for PlayStation which had more numbers for PS2, and then continued to drop off. Fewer and fewer people are buying console systems.

 

I still don't agree with this.  PS4 is the second best selling console of all time and outsold the PS3 by 30 million, and the PS5 is (supposedly) selling at a faster rate despite shortages.   The Switch is the is the 5th best selling console, and still selling at a strong clip.  It is close to outselling the PS3, it will likely outsell the Wii and maybe even the PS4.   Maybe sales have dipped a little from the PS2 generation, but they are still strong and consoles are some of the hottest items around right now.   These days households own multiple gaming devices, including console(s), phones, tablets, handhelds, PCs and streaming devices. So it isn't like if a home has a PC or streaming device then they don't need a console.  People get bored and buy new things.

 

 

[joeatari1]

16 minutes ago, Sauron said:

As someone who seems to have a much more level-headed opinion of the system based on your previous posts, would you say the system is worth $400? And if not, what price point do you think would hit the sweet spot for what it offers? Would like to hear this from someone whose opinion of it isn't completely based on emotions.

 

 

(Dips toe lightly into water)  

 

I think $400 is a little steep, even if it does come with two controllers.  I think a $300 to $350 price tag is more appropriate.  I think I paid $329??? back in 2018 for the Collectors Edition with two controllers.  I think that was fair.  Forgive me if I forget, it was three years ago now.

 

As far as dead?  No.  There are too many games in the works.  Yak has a dev console.  They have Megan McDuffee, a film and game score composer, making music for a few games.  There are also other games that are in development for it, some crowd funded and some not.  Additional content forthcoming.

[zzip]

23 minutes ago, Sauron said:

As someone who seems to have a much more level-headed opinion of the system based on your previous posts, would you say the system is worth $400? Would like to hear this from someone whose opinion of it isn't completely based on emotions.

Everyone's financial situation is different, so what's worth $400 to one might not to another.

 

For one it's a $300 system, if you don't buy the controllers (supposed to work with standard PC controllers),  also prices of PC components have been going up because of the Pandemic-  so it's gotten harder to make the case it's overpriced compared to other PCs.   Atari-branded systems hold their value when they are produced in small quantities.    Look at how much a Jaguar sells for these days in spite of it's rather weak library.  I sold my STe for more than I paid for it.  So likely the VCS will be worth something to collectors in the future.   A generic PC doesn't hold its value and you often need to pay someone to recycle them.

 

I actually feel like I got mine for free because I bought it with the most recent govt stimulus check-  that was extra money I didn't expect and didn't need for anything else.

[+swlovinist]

5 minutes ago, joeatari1 said:

(Dips toe lightly into water)  

 

I think $400 is a little steep, even if it does come with two controllers.  I think a $300 to $350 price tag is more appropriate.  I think I paid $329??? back in 2018 for the Collectors Edition with two controllers.  I think that was fair.  Forgive me if I forget, it was three years ago now.

 

As far as dead?  No.  There are too many games in the works.  Yak has a dev console.  They have Megan McDuffee, a film and game score composer, making music for a few games.  There are also other games that are in development for it, some crowd funded and some not.  Additional content forthcoming.

Thank you for your post.   Do you have a list of the "too many" games coming?  Are these games already available on Steam or other platforms?  My concern that I posted earlier is that they have not released a single game since 6/11 and have not posted a release schedule for future games.   Cool that Megan McDuffee is on board, as that is good news.   At the minimum, a release schedule would be really nice, as it could show that the VCS is indeed moving forward.   Again, I am a supporter of the console, just feel that Atari could do a better job at communicating to the public about "what else" they plan to do with the VCS than just releasing hardware to the public.   I keep coming to the VCS forums eager to see what other games are coming.   I am currently enjoying ThrustLander and have messed around with Antstream Arcade as well.  

[82-T/A]

31 minutes ago, zzip said:

I still don't agree with this.  PS4 is the second best selling console of all time and outsold the PS3 by 30 million, and the PS5 is (supposedly) selling at a faster rate despite shortages.   The Switch is the is the 5th best selling console, and still selling at a strong clip.  It is close to outselling the PS3, it will likely outsell the Wii and maybe even the PS4.   Maybe sales have dipped a little from the PS2 generation, but they are still strong and consoles are some of the hottest items around right now.   These days households own multiple gaming devices, including console(s), phones, tablets, handhelds, PCs and streaming devices. So it isn't like if a home has a PC or streaming device then they don't need a console.  People get bored and buy new things.

 

I could be mistaken, but I thought I took that challenge and verified that in fact, those numbers were not true. The PS2 was the best selling system out of all the PlayStations, and 3 / 4 / 5 were each successively less. For that matter, I have a daughter who's 12. She has a lot of friends and they're really into a lot of different things, but console games are something not a single one of them have mentioned. One of her friends has an XBOX, and the rest of them have no interest, but they all play Roblox, some Mine Craft, and other games on their PCs, laptops, and even tablets. They're all affluent, so it's not really a matter of money. I remember another key point too is that we have 7 billion people in this world today. When the PlayStation 1 came out, we had 4 billion people. The population of the United States has gained just shy of 100 million more people than it had when the PlayStation 1 came out... by all accounts, the numbers of people buying these consoles should be excessively higher. People just aren't interested in console games anymore.

 

 

55 minutes ago, Sauron said:

As someone who seems to have a much more level-headed opinion of the system based on your previous posts, would you say the system is worth $400? And if not, what price point do you think would hit the sweet spot for what it offers? Would like to hear this from someone whose opinion of it isn't completely based on emotions.

 

Well, as old farts (I'm 43, and I think most of us are probably high 30 somethings or older)... we have a warped sense of what something should cost. A Ford Explorer in 2002 cost $24k for a nice loaded model. The bare bones crap 2021 model is $38k starting... so things simply just cost more. The fact that the system has Atari on it, and a custom OS loader immediately makes the system worth ~$150 more... simply because of name / customization. There are many similar systems available online that aren't Atari, basically just Linux streaming boxes. They go anywhere from $100 to $250 for really decent 4k ones.

 

Further considering the fact that we've had about >8% inflation this year... I think $400 is not really an insane price. I think $350 makes it far more competitive.

 

For me, I really had no desire for a streaming Linux machine sitting next to my TV... Roku being the exception, and I got rid of it and got a Roku TV so it was all-in-one. I think the Atari VCS is one of the few things I'd actually enjoy having out.

[rayik]

I'm a retail purchaser of the VCS and extra controllers at MicroCenter.  I own all prior Atari systems and to me this was a collectable.  I can understand that to others, it is not collectable nor desireable.

 

Immediately after purchase, upgraded RAM to 32GB and installed 256GB M.2

 

Within the first couple of weeks, used Atari OS to buy and play 3 from the VCS store.  Installed Win10 on the M.2 using it as a Steam box (primarly Tempest 4K).  Installed Ubuntu on a 1GB USB HDD along with RetroPie.  Loaded up only 2 systems: TurboGrafx and Attari 7800.  Lots more retro games there than available through the VCS store.

 

Since then I have not turned the system on in the last 2 weeks.  Really not motivated to turn it on now.

 

My overall impression is Atari used thier resources to create the hardware. There is not much work put into Atari OS.  it is really rather roughly done in that on boot up fyou can see CLI output and  a cursor for brief periods of time.   Would have expected there to be at the least a full screen graphic hiding that.  Also the PC Mode to me seems like something put together at the last second, probably when it was realized Atari OS would not offer much.  To be kind, it is really roughly implemented.

 

Was it worth the $$.  That depends on an individuals circumstances in life.  I have a rather extensive collection of systems / everdrives and I enjoy having the VCS even though I can't see using it much.

 

[stirrell]

One of the things that really causes me to doubt Atari is how sloppy they are. Take a look at this page:

 

https://atarivcs.com/atari-vcs-onyx-base-system/

 

notice anything wrong? On other pages they talk about pre-ordering the VCS and joysticks and about the release in the spring. Still. It might seem silly to harp on something like that but if a company can’t maintain their website I would worry about giving them my credit card in the store. I did let Atari know about the content issue over a week ago. They did respond which is nice.

 

One of the selling points that Atari touted for the VCS is how easy it was to port PC games to the system. Yet, Atari hasn’t bothered to do so with some of their recent games like Tempest 4K or Pong Quest. That would seem like a no brainer to me.

 

All that said, I think the machine itself is decent if used as a mini PC. The only comparable things I could find in the mini PC form factors were machines by companies I had never heard of and the VCS wasn’t ridiculously priced. And the VCS case is miles better than anything else on the market, IMO. And it comes with a couple great-looking controllers.

 

I don’t foresee Atari coming out with much content for the store, unfortunately. Even if they commissioned packs of Atari ST games, Lynx games, 8-bit games and Jag games, that would be great. Well, for diehard Atari fans. It likely wouldn’t change the opinion of the general gaming market. But Atari hasn’t said anything on their Medium site for quite some time.

 

 

[Cebus Capucinis]

Protip: One way to get trolled less is to stop being such an easy target.  It's easy to dunk on a group that gets the vapors and cries in the corner every time someone says anything less than calling the console the second coming and screeches how the ones leveling legitimate criticisms are things like "crazed stalker trolls" and "OmG hAyTeRs!!!!11!"

 

My totally real and not at all made up 9 year old came in, read this post, and said "Sick burn dad, dunk on the Amico clowns next," which totally and absolutely was a thing that really happened.

 

Mamby Pamby "waaaah, STOP MAKING US VICTIMS" replies (and more than likely a mod banning me from this thread) in 3....2.....

 

(Don't worry mods. I'll see myself out and ignore this thread.)

But for real. Stop overreacting and it'll probably stop.

[Jinks]

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

I bet sales would pick up by quite a bit if Atari dropped the price for the full bundle by $100. As it stands, the VCS just doesn't offer much value when compared to other gaming platforms, and it's ability to double as a full-fledged computer isn't enough to push it over the edge.

If they dropped the price 300 I would consider it as a stocking stuffer for my cat to watch bird videos on. 

 

 

Everyone would have loved for Atari to be more than what it is and see a new machine come out that has full support but this never happened. Probably 20 years too late as most Atari people are long gone from games and many are checked out..Atari in the modern world now means nothing. The only thing Atari for me is Atari Age. Atari can never be anything more. 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jinks