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Mockduck

The Atari VCS Controversy Thread

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I think you will find the tracking numbers have been sent, but they are mostly still sitting in Atari’s warehouse wait8ng to be picked up after the long weekend, next year ... yet another self imposed target ATARI failed to meet.

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15 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

To be fair, I think JustClaws just wanted to show doubters there actually are games on the VCS (even though there are not a lot of exclusives and that's the real problem), and he didn't expect there would be that many... 😅 Of course one wouldn't create a topic for every game released on the Switch, for instance.

I would expect each switch game being discussed to have a seperate topic; but I wouldn't expect every switch game to be discussed.  The problem here is not that each game has a topic/thread, it's that topics are being created but there isn't much discussion, yet.  In some cases, the person creating the topic didn't have much to say to start the discussion.

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56 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I would expect each switch game being discussed to have a seperate topic; but I wouldn't expect every switch game to be discussed.  The problem here is not that each game has a topic/thread, it's that topics are being created but there isn't much discussion, yet.  In some cases, the person creating the topic didn't have much to say to start the discussion.

If there is little to no interest in a topic, doesn’t it simply sink to the depths?

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I actually agree that the thread per game thing isn't necessary, since there isn't interest in discussing each game individually enough to justify a thread for each one. Just saying that the practice didn't strike me as odd because it seems to be becoming "forum normal" more and more as people who grew up with Reddit and such bring their practices to various forums. 

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Actually, let me say this as well: I have been pleasantly surprised by the launch lineup, both in terms of number of games and overall quality of the games. There is actually a fair amount to play, and it is fun. 

 

Surprisingly, I can't say the same thing about my launch day PS5. Dunno what's going on there, but the PS5 specific store page is starting to feel abandoned. 

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3 hours ago, mr_me said:

I would expect each switch game being discussed to have a seperate topic; but I wouldn't expect every switch game to be discussed.  The problem here is not that each game has a topic/thread, it's that topics are being created but there isn't much discussion, yet.  In some cases, the person creating the topic didn't have much to say to start the discussion.

That's of course what I meant.

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Got my shipping notice on Tuesday and my VCS arrived yesterday.  Pretty quick to set up, downloaded some apps, played a few games on Atari Vault, Antstream and downloaded Guntech.  So far so good.  :)

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22 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

So,  Out of curiosity,  Does the joystick spin like a paddle?   Or was that just an old idea they didn't go with?

It does, and does it well. Might be one of the most exciting things about this whole story. The Classic Controller is the best thing yet made for this, unless/until we get some kind of actual modern paddle controller. 

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20 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

So,  Out of curiosity,  Does the joystick spin like a paddle?   Or was that just an old idea they didn't go with?

Yes it feels  "analogue like"....

If you take a closer look to the "LED ring" you can see it...

 

Cheers,

andY

 

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IMG_20201228_105132 - Kopie.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Mockduck said:

It does, and does it well. Might be one of the most exciting things about this whole story. The Classic Controller is the best thing yet made for this, unless/until we get some kind of actual modern paddle controller. 

Does it ever interfere with normal joystick usage, like you want to go diagonal, but you accidentally rotate?

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33 minutes ago, LoonyLucas said:

Got my shipping notice on Tuesday and my VCS arrived yesterday.  Pretty quick to set up, downloaded some apps, played a few games on Atari Vault, Antstream and downloaded Guntech.  So far so good.  :)

20201230_195609.jpg

 

 

Got mine finally on 28.12.2020 🥰

 

(Announced to the 23.12.2020 / X-Mas gift)

 

Cheers,

andY

 

 

VCS-XMAS.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Does it ever interfere with normal joystick usage, like you want to go diagonal, but you accidentally rotate?

I dont think it does.  The spinner isn't loose and needs a purposeful twist to make it twist, so pushing the stick in any direction doesnt accidentally cause it to twist at the same time.  It's a decent design and works well for Breakout.

Edited by LoonyLucas
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3 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Does it ever interfere with normal joystick usage, like you want to go diagonal, but you accidentally rotate?

In Vault, some games use it as an 8-way joystick, others use the spinning function, but generally not both at the same time. (While it doesn't feel like an 8-way joystick as pointed out above, it registers as one.) Vault can be configured to, say, make the stick act as a gear shift in Sprint 2 while the spinning is a steering wheel, and that could result in you accidentally turning as you change gears or vice versa, so it's generally to be avoided.

 

Personally, though, if I'd been designing a joystick-spinner combo controller, I would've made that whole concave dish the spinner (with a ribbed surface for grip). A rotating disk would feel more like, say, Tempest's controller, than pinching a stick between thumb and forefinger. Just IMHO.

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On 12/29/2020 at 7:31 PM, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Yeah, in the broadest sense of the word where everything produced is "collectible" it is, but I just don't believe that you've got thousands more people that truly want to get a crap PC in an Ataribox because they love so much, or enjoy owning dumpster fires . Anyone who really gives a damn about this has already bought one, outside of a few maybe waiting for a price drop.

It doesn't matter what's inside.  There's lots of people who will collect things just to own them and never use them.   Look at the kinds of things people collect we used to  Being in a VCS case is enough, having customized joysticks is enough.   It won't matter that it's PC-based,   All that matters is it's produced in limited quantities.  If Atari goes crazy and produces millions of them and they rot on store shelves or in warehouses, then no they won't be so collectable.    I also don't think everyone who wants one has bought one.  There are probably a good number of people who are interested but were never going to take part in a risky crowdfund campaign.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 7:31 PM, Shaggy the Atarian said:

The primary driver for collectibility is value though, and the VCS has nothing beyond the three things you mentioned. Yeah, those things work for some people, but most? I don't think so.

Those friggin tin lunchboxes that were a dime-a-dozen in the 70s are now collectable.  All that matters is what's printed on the outside.  The driver for collectability is rarity and uniqueness,  "value" is in the eye of the beholder.    You are projecting your subjective value of the device on the entire market.   Remember the Jaguars they couldn't give away in the 90s are now desirable and collectable.   I don't know what the VCS will be worth in 20 years, but I can guarantee it will hold its value better than a generic PC build that people suggest buying instead.  

 

On 12/29/2020 at 7:31 PM, Shaggy the Atarian said:

What ultimately drives value on game consoles are the games - exclusives in particular.

That drives a console during its commercial life.   But for the millionth time,  the VCS is not a traditional console.   People who want it are not banking on an exclusive library.    A new console market niche exists where even KFC can produce a console and people will buy it.

 

Edit: and I have a theory as to why such a weird market exists.   The smartphone killed off the market for many gadgets.   Things we used to own separately there's now "an app for that".   Those of us who like to tinker with new gadgets have been in a drought for the past decade,  where it seems like there's nothing new outside of maybe VR.    So there's pent up demand for something novel, hardware-wise

Edited by zzip
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The KFC console is a good case in point. I'd suspect that it was mainly commissioned as a publicity stunt, with the world's media duly taking the bait that was offered.

 

However, they just went to an existing manufacturer of PC cases - Cooler Master - who built something that you only have to put off-the-shelf hardware inside in the shape of a NUC blade and any graphics card that'll physically fit.

 

That would have been a far more sensible way for Atari to go about this than spending three years re-inventing the wheel.

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28 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

spending three years re-inventing the wheel.

 

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5 hours ago, zzip said:

It doesn't matter what's inside.  There's lots of people who will collect things just to own them and never use them.   Look at the kinds of things people collect we used to  Being in a VCS case is enough, having customized joysticks is enough.   It won't matter that it's PC-based,   All that matters is it's produced in limited quantities.  If Atari goes crazy and produces millions of them and they rot on store shelves or in warehouses, then no they won't be so collectable.   

 

I like how the goal posts have now moved to this being some kind of Next Big Collectible rather than a viable entertainment product that lets you "game stream & connect like never before" that Netflix moms just will go crazy over.  Of course, it wouldn't be modern Atari if we weren't constantly having to lower those expectations. 

 

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I also don't think everyone who wants one has bought one.  There are probably a good number of people who are interested but were never going to take part in a risky crowdfund campaign.

Shouting Development GIF - Shouting Development DozensOfUs GIFs

 

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You are projecting your subjective value of the device on the entire market. 

Lol, and you're not with this silly notion that the Atari logo is apparently worth millions and millions because of how the Jaguar currently shows up on eBay? I guess I should be pawning off my Atari Pong Jr. unit right now for $4000! It's bigger than a Jaguar CD and it has 4 Atari logos on it! $1000 each! Amazing value! I'll also throw in a free Atari digital collectible of Fred Chesnais holding a Baby Yar. Why own an Apple stock when you can have this? 

 

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That drives a console during its commercial life.   But for the millionth time,  the VCS is not a traditional console.   People who want it are not banking on an exclusive library.    A new console market niche exists where even KFC can produce a console and people will buy it.

Yes, people who want it just like throwing money at a logo, etc.etc. You seem to think, or are implying, that the VCS is going to be the hottest item in retro collecting history for some reason. I'd be willing to wager that items like the NES Classic will be far more collectible a some years down the road than the VCS will be.  

 

The only thing that will have any sort of value to it out of this whole fiasco will be the CX-40 sticks. If you haven't noticed, that's the main thing that everyone is actually interested in (and why a lot of the VCS pre-orders were just for the stick). 

 

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  So there's pent up demand for something novel, hardware-wise

For the millionth time, there's nothing "novel" about a plastic case with an Atari logo on it. By that logic, the Atari-branded Raspberry Pi should be the most valuable RPi variant ever made. 

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Latest video from the fellow booting Atari OS on other machines. Note his comical description 😀

 


😎Love his description - "Just a video showing you how to restore the Atari VCS operating system. Here is the link to the document provided by Atari:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17TeJMIZcLIsGMJEHlQAxOb_YdIuX4GoL4bvBExAudWU/edit
As mentioned in the video, this is ONLY to be booted on an Atari VCS console and definitely SHOULD NOT be booted on ANY other machine.

 

 

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7 hours ago, zzip said:

There are probably a good number of people who are interested but were never going to take part in a risky crowdfund campaign.

The hilarious thing is that this campaign was only risky as a result of the repeated incompetence displayed by FArtari coupled with their persistent hubris. Many other campaigns have successfully met their goals without the obfuscation, dissembling and downright poor project management. No one within FArtari seems to have even a basic understanding of Marketing, let alone the concept of Consumer Loyalty nor Customer Lifetime Value.  All elements of the Goodwill they purchased when they bought the ATARI brand, that they have now so foolishly destroyed.

 

FArtari assured everyone that there was absolutely no risk in their use of the IndieNoNo platform ... yet their abuse of it, once they got their funds, was rather deliberate in the end.

Edited by Chopsus
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2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

By that logic, the Atari-branded Raspberry Pi should be the most valuable RPi variant ever made.

 

You can have that right now.

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4 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

You can have that right now.

That's very cool. And I think, should the VCS ever go to retail, that a lot of people would see that as a giant pain and would rather pay the extra $125-150 (I'm estimating the VCS price drops) to get a cool new controller, a better looking console box, and the ability to stream new games, should they want. A lot of people would look at the fact you have to assemble and rig a Raspberry Pi as a waste of time. This is partly why the Flashbacks hit that niche market well. 

 

Mind you, I love the Pi capabilities and think they're fun. I'm just saying "Joe Consumer" usually wants plug and play above all else. And to be fair the VCS has to address that as well (3 updates to install, including a BiOS upgrade? Come on.)

Edited by Atarick
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I just love that we're now apparently using the Jaguar as a benchmark of success.  😂

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2 hours ago, racerx said:

I just love that we're now apparently using the Jaguar as a benchmark of success.  😂

At least the Atari of its day didn't consider merely RELEASING the console to be a victory.

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