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The Atari VCS Controversies Thread


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35 minutes ago, MrSeven said:

Does it have to be that much of a tough road?

Yes.

35 minutes ago, MrSeven said:

A few well made exclusive games to get things going. Perhaps a Swordquest game remade in 3D world like a Tomb Raider type game. Adventure as an open world game. Haunted House as a survival horror type game. The hardware doesn't have to be cutting edge. Breath of the Wild was a wonderful game on less for example.

Nintendo likely spent more on that one game than Atari has spent on everything for the past ten years. The Switch also sold hundreds of thousands of units before that's game's release, because it was preceded by other top-notch AAA titles that also cost tens of millions of dollars. Nintendo also had the advantage of a reputation earned by steadily releasing quality first party software without interruption for the last 35 years. The fact that some NES and SNES games are on the Switch is just an added plus...it certainly didn't drive many sales in the beginning. Atari doesn't even own the rights to many of the games on Lynx and Jaguar, and outside of our little circle there just aren't that many people interested in them anyway. Basketbrawl simply isn't in big demand.

 

I keep seeing posts saying it's okay to like the VCS, and it certainly is.  But when people start talking about how the machine is going to be a big success, or that all it needs is something it can't possibly get, or that the stock will break a euro per share, or that now's the time to jump on Atari Token, or that Atari hotels will be a big draw in any major city, that's just ignoring reality.

 

I hope every backer enjoys the hell out of their VCS, but on a discussion board these kind of pie in the sky dreams are going to generate a lot of discussion.

Edited by racerx
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I never thought the Tokens were a good idea and the Hotels are a pipe dream.

 

Coming up with some good games to help make it successful is achievable.

 

Successful doesn't mean that it has to sell millions.  Like a lot of things, as long as they feel it's profitable enough, they will support it. Time will tell I guess.

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54 minutes ago, MrSeven said:

Then perhaps start releasing 7800, Lynx, Jaguar and other games exclusive to the VCS like Nintendo did with the NES and SNES for the Switch (and other systems). The model for success is there to follow and they have the IPs to do it. Of course it's going to take some better decisions then some they have made in the past.

Exclusive to the Switch? The 1st party games are pretty much on every Nintendo platform since the snes. I mean the first 3 super mario's (plus lost world's) were released on the snes. 

 

And while they have a long list of IPs, no one is going to pull out unreal engine for Math Grand Prix. There isn't a lot of quality IP in the list to build with. Sure there's a few but honestly i'd rather a AAA or even a AA developer license it, but there is no way they would do that as an exclusive too the VCS2020 without Atari putting serious money on the table up front..

 

Edited by The Historian
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2 minutes ago, The Historian said:

Exclusive to the Switch? The 1st party games are pretty much on every Nintendo platform since the snes. I mean the first 3 super mario's (plus lost world's) were released on the snes. 

I guess you missed my (and other systems).

2 minutes ago, The Historian said:

And while they have a long list of IPs, no one is going to pull out unreal engine for Math Grand Prix. There isn't a lot of quality IP in the list to build with. Sure there's a few but honestly if rather a AAA or even a AA developer license it, but there is no way they would do that as an exclusive too for VCS2020 without Atari putting serious money on the table up front..

 

Math Grand Prix. Now you're just trying to be funny.

 

There may not be a lot but there are some good titles. They just need one hit to peek some interest and get the ball rolling. Will it happen? Who knows. Is it possible, sure.

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1 hour ago, MrSeven said:

Does it have to be that much of a tough road? A few well made exclusive games to get things going. Perhaps a Swordquest game remade in 3D world like a Tomb Raider type game. Adventure as an open world game. Haunted House as a survival horror type game. The hardware doesn't have to be cutting edge. Breath of the Wild was a wonderful game on less for example.

 

Then perhaps start releasing 7800, Lynx, Jaguar and other games exclusive to the VCS like Nintendo did with the NES and SNES for the Switch (and other systems). The model for success is there to follow and they have the IPs to do it. Of course it's going to take some better decisions then some they have made in the past.

 

Here's the thing: none of the older titles or consoles you've mentioned have any cachet with modern gamers - and requiring a $400 hardware buy-in to play a modern version of Adventure (a title that likely means very little to gamers under the age of 40) or similar isn't reasonable.  It's just too tough of a sell.

 

Steam would be a better route for things like this.  It would give wide distribution without the economic barrier to entry.  Having said that:

 

Quote

I think the VCS was part of the longer plan though. Licensing the Atari name on merchandise and Flashbacks can only go so far for so long. But who knows? I didn't think there would 10 or more Flashbacks.

 

The Flashback units are what Fauxtari should have been making if they wanted to build credibility as a hardware manufacturer.  Instead, they played it safe and licensed the company name and game titles to third parties for development and manufacture.  Developing outside and manufacturing internally isn't necessarily an issue: see GCC and Epyx' involvement with the 7800 and Lynx, respectively, or Flare with the Jaguar.  But Chesnais et cie. a) didn't have the finances to take that risk, and b) probably wouldn't have anyway because it was easier to collect a licensing fee and let someone else worry about it all crashing down around them.

 

Coming back to the point above: they're now in a position whereby the hardware they have made simply will not sustain enough momentum in the marketplace to justify exclusive titles - and especially not if those titles have no appeal for people in the modern marketplace who aren't old enough to remember when Star Wars: Episode IV was in theatrical release for the first time.

 

Repeatedly repackaging nostalgia is a losing game - your target demographic is constantly dying off, and even then there's only so many times that they'll pay for the same thing in a different wrapper.  If you're not capable of moving with the age shift, you're basically locked into a no-win situation - and with the death of the Jaguar in 1996, the runway of exploitable properties is getting shorter and shorter for Fauxtari.

Edited by x=usr(1536)
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Just look at the sort of games Atari have published since the VCS was announced.

 

If you're thinking of Tempest 4000 and Missile Command Relaunched, congrats, because that's pretty much it for the good ones. Both were developed independently too, and Atari's only contribution was to license their relevant trademarks.

 

Basically, they don't have any development teams in house nor the money to bankroll anything beyond very small third party developers and even then they're mostly looking for people to work on credit. There is simply no way they're ever going to come up with a 'Breath of the Wild' with that business model.

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Haha I'm feeling young right now. Thanks for that.

 

The problem with Atari IPs is kind of the same thing I'm seeing in some of the Amico reimagined games. There hasn't been any growth in the IPs. Mario Bros. has grown and evolved a lot over the years.

 

Adventure is great and I love the homebrews like EMR 1&2, but it is well super basic. I tried playing Asteroids on the PS1, but it just made me feel like I might as well play the older versions. The IPs have had no love, care, or innovation since they came out back before I was born.

 

Tempest 4000 and Space Invaders Extreme may be two exceptions I can think of that might have broke that mold. 

Edited by MrBeefy
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46 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Tempest 4000 and Space Invaders Extreme may be two exceptions I can think of that might have broke that mold. 

Space Invaders Extreme was from Taito. Atari only ever had that IP under license.

 

Tempest is the only original Atari IP that they still own that's had any legs, and that's entirely been down to Jeff Minter.

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13 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Space Invaders Extreme was from Taito. Atari only ever had that IP under license.

 

Tempest is the only original Atari IP that they still own that's had any legs, and that's entirely been down to Jeff Minter.

 

True.  And let's not forget how they fubared the updated version of Night Driver.  Squander potentially-usable IP like there's no tomorrow, folks.

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5 hours ago, The Historian said:

And while they have a long list of IPs, no one is going to pull out unreal engine for Math Grand Prix. 

 

Point of fact: Atari sold the rights to Math Gran Prix in their bankruptcy auction in 2013, same time they sold Battlezone. Unlikely Battlezone there were no grandfathered rights for prior compilations. (That's a matter of public record, since the docs were made public in the bankruptcy proceedings.) You'll notice Battlezone remained in Atari's Greatest Hits on iOS to the end while Math Gran Prix was replaced with Stunt Cycle immediately after the sale. Of course AGH is gone too now and Battlezone no longer appears in further compilations like Atari Vault and Atari Flashback Classics (i.e. the console version), with Sprint 2 taking its place. 

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2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

True.  And let's not forget how they fubared the updated version of Night Driver.  Squander potentially-usable IP like there's no tomorrow, folks.

Yeah, Atari value their IP so much that they'll just hand it over for development to a brand new start-up with no track record and publish the results regardless of whether they're any good or not.

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The easiest thing Atari could have done was develop a killer game side by side with the VCS, exclusive to it. It would have made the wait more palatable, it also could have showcased a new game developer and increased the appeal of the system overall. Problem is, to attract that type of talent for something on a major scale you're talking $80-100M minimum on marketing, development, agreements, etc. Do they even have a fifth of that available? A buzzworthy game would have simplified a lot, as would a bigger IP library of Lynx/Jaguar/7800 titles and maybe something on the dev side to optimize the classic controller (can it control my streaming apps? Is it easier to play sports/driving games with? Is it something kids can use for educational-ish games or apps during lockdown, given the simpler layout?). That would be closer to classic Atari and achieve a lot that would hit both fanboys and new target audiences. 

Edited by Atarick
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1 hour ago, Atarick said:

The easiest thing Atari could have done was develop a killer game side by side with the VCS, exclusive to it. It would have made the wait more palatable, it also could have showcased a new game developer and increased the appeal of the system overall. Problem is, to attract that type of talent for something on a major scale you're talking $80-100M minimum on marketing, development, agreements, etc.

 

True, but you pretty much answered your own question: they didn't have the money.  Their extremely poor (and, frankly, baffling) efforts at attracting developers also guaranteed failure in this department.

 

1 hour ago, Atarick said:

Do they even have a fifth of that available?

 

Nope.  The company's not even worth that much.  I'd have to trawl the taco thread for exact figures, but we did a valuation based on their market cap, and IIRC it was somewhere in the $8M range.

 

1 hour ago, Atarick said:

A buzzworthy game would have simplified a lot, as would a bigger IP library of Lynx/Jaguar/7800 titles and maybe something on the dev side to optimize the classic controller (can it control my streaming apps? Is it easier to play sports/driving games with? Is it something kids can use for educational-ish games or apps during lockdown, given the simpler layout?). That would be closer to classic Atari and achieve a lot that would hit both fanboys and new target audiences. 

 

There was a lot that they could have done.  Sadly, they didn't.

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10 minutes ago, Solomon_Man said:

TacoDon,

What is you order number curious to see if they are following any pattern?

 

I believe someone mentioned they are not.

 

Thanks

Chris

I'm not exonerating them for poor communication, but holy crap mail is taking forever now. I had something due to arrive the 11th and it still hasn't showed. They'll get flack for this but they couldn't have shipped these at a worse time. Some of that isn't their fault.

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All,

On the Tesla automobiles its an interesting situation which I compare it to the Early days of Atari/computers.

 

For Atari, It was the early movement (computers/game systems/etc) and anything could be released and lets be honest it was. The game crash kind of showed that in my opinion.

 

Some of this was then probably a "learning curve" or engineering cycle as mentioned previously. Today its probably the same for the EV vehicles.

 

In the automobile realm, one thing for certain is cars are going electric. So much in fact that mandates by governments are now commonplace. It only took 100+ years for it to happen. Even Ferdinand Porsche raced 4 wheel electric vehicles in the early days of automobiles. Anyways from my viewpoint, automobile manufacturing, is doing the same thing.

GM Volt, Bolt - Nissan Leaf are two other examples, along with Tesla to get anything to the Marketplace and the people will buy. Companies, as previously mentioned, are in fact joining forces to reduce development costs. Some OEMs are actually sub-ing out complete automobile manufacturing (BMW->Magna).

 

Again being an early adapter, not to mention a 100 mile round trip commute daily, I have ran a Sub Panel, over the Covid shutdown, to my Garage to support 2 EV vehicles.  plus a future expansion to my barns.

 

Just my two cents,

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Atarick said:

I'm not exonerating them for poor communication, but holy crap mail is taking forever now. I had something due to arrive the 11th and it still hasn't showed. They'll get flack for this but they couldn't have shipped these at a worse time. Some of that isn't their fault.

Agreed,

Our local post office is delivering after dark. They are dressed in blue and high visible reflector bars.

 

On the Logistics of things...I have a gift I ordered on November 30th for the wife...Said would be to me by the December 3rd. Then got a notice that would not be to my home till February 15th. I was blown away but that gives an example of todays Logistical problems.

 

There are jokes on Facebook etc that say they should allow Chick-Fil-A to take over the mail then all mail would be delivered on time.

 

Thanks

Chris

 

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11 hours ago, Matt_B said:

Space Invaders Extreme was from Taito. Atari only ever had that IP under license.

 

Tempest is the only original Atari IP that they still own that's had any legs, and that's entirely been down to Jeff Minter.

True. I was just really thinking of old IPs altogether.

 

I like old games but not many of them have translated well into modern gaming. A game like Adventure could be like a Zelda or JRPG, but with it being neglected it wouldn't be recognizable as Adventure. Might as well start a fresh IP.

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