The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[godslabrat]

45 minutes ago, leech said:

And people said I was aggressive and pissy.  You don't actually have to buy an external drive, people have installed over AtariOS.  You don't even need a Windows license, Linux is perfectly capable of doing word processing.  Plus you didn't mention that before.  Plus you can also do it through google docs.  So yeah you can literally do all that through the Chrome browser.  You could do that through AtariOS. 

 

Sorry, I thought you knew that too

 

Besides Win10 should in theory be able to run with 6gb of ram.  But yeah you don't need Windows for any of that, as you have Chrome / Google Docs.

So, to recap:

 

Your contention is that a parent buying a homeschool PC would consider "Google docs on Atari" or "Wipe and install Linux" as meaningful alternatives to buying a Windows PC for the same amount of money, and just opening the box and plugging it in?

 

Am I understanding you correctly?

[leech]

Just now, godslabrat said:

So, to recap:

 

Your contention is that a parent buying a homeschool PC would consider "Google docs on Atari" or "Wipe and install Linux" as meaningful alternatives to buying a Windows PC for the same amount of money, and just opening the box and plugging it in?

 

Am I understanding you correctly?

Nope, you actually took me out of context.  When you said no one is buying those 300 dollar PCs at walmart, I said plenty of people were buying those for kids.  You then started saying that such normal things aren't going to be available on the VCS, and I said sure you could use it for general computing.  You could technically do all of MS Office through the VCS with Chrome and O365 too....

 

My contention was that someone walking through looking for a game system for little Timmy may look at a game system that says it includes 100 games out of the box, vs a system that doesn't come with any, and is a bit more in price.

 

Basically you threw in that no one buys the Walmart PCs, I said that they do, but then you somehow mixed those two things into 'The VCS isn't going to be bought for general computing' which I never said it was, just that it could be used as such, not that it would be bought for such a thing.  Hopefully that clears up any confusion.

[godslabrat]

11 minutes ago, leech said:

Nope, you actually took me out of context.  When you said no one is buying those 300 dollar PCs at walmart, I said plenty of people were buying those for kids.  

I literally did not say that.

[Matt_B]

2 hours ago, leech said:

Oddly, you can do those out of the box on the VCS, fill in web forms, and browse the net and watch Netflix. 

Good luck doing any of that without a screen. I'm pretty sure there isn't one of those in the box the VCS comes in.

 

[leech]

3 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Good luck doing any of that without a screen. I'm pretty sure there isn't one of those in the box the VCS comes in.

 

Ha, unlike most people thinking you'd need a monitor with a PC you know most people have HDMI TVs at this point...

 

9 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I literally did not say that.

Someone did.

[AtariLeaf]

I think little Timmy would rather have a Switch. I know I would

[leech]

Just now, AtariLeaf said:

I think little Timmy would rather have a Switch. I know I would

I liked the idea of the Switch.  It just seems.. I don't know maybe if I went on more trips, I'd like it more.  I'm also annoyed that while they do have physical carts you can get, when you buy a game you pretty much get the pretty cover, the tiny card, and a plastic case.  Only one of the many games I bought came with any sort of extras, and that was a special edition of Dead Cells (which that is an asshole game).  I do really like the Switch Pro controller though.

[godslabrat]

10 minutes ago, leech said:

 

 

Someone did.

So you posted a giant argument, replying to me, about something someone else said?

 

 

[leech]

2 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

So you posted a giant argument, replying to me, about something someone else said?

 

 

[godslabrat]

13 minutes ago, leech said:

At no point in the post you screencapped did I state that no one bought $300 Windows computers from Walmart.

[leech]

4 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

At no point in the post you screencapped did I state that no one bought $300 Windows computers from Walmart.

You specifically say that they struggle selling $300 computers.  Sure is that 'NO ONE'?  No.  But that is 'struggling'.  Whether they are useful is debatable, as I hate using Windows myself So if you want to be that picky... meh, whatever dude.  Have some Scotch, it's a fantastic way to wash away all your hate for Atari.

[godslabrat]

1 minute ago, leech said:

You specifically say that they struggle selling $300 computers.  Sure is that 'NO ONE'?  No.  But that is 'struggling'.  Whether they are useful is debatable, as I hate using Windows myself So if you want to be that picky... meh, whatever dude.  Have some Scotch, it's a fantastic way to wash away all your hate for Atari.

Yes, I said they struggled. PCs are in a decline, and have been for 10-15 years now.  This is well-known.  Wal-Mart stocks the few units they have in low-traffic areas, taking up very little floor space, and they don't bring in large quantities at a time.  These are all signs of a product that isn't moving in high volume... which, given the known decline of PCs, is perfectly understandable.

 

I then point out that, despite this, a $300 Wal-Mart PC would offer a better value for a homeschool parent than a ChesnaisTrunk, and that would be apparent to anyone doing the shopping.  Thus, it is very easy to speculate on the possibility of seeing Atari's potato at retail.

 

This is, of course, ignoring the completely separate question of if Atari would ever be in a position to actually produce enough units to supply even a full Wal-Mart region, much less the entire chain.  

[leech]

1 minute ago, godslabrat said:

Yes, I said they struggled. PCs are in a decline, and have been for 10-15 years now.  This is well-known.  Wal-Mart stocks the few units they have in low-traffic areas, taking up very little floor space, and they don't bring in large quantities at a time.  These are all signs of a product that isn't moving in high volume... which, given the known decline of PCs, is perfectly understandable.

 

I then point out that, despite this, a $300 Wal-Mart PC would offer a better value for a homeschool parent than a ChesnaisTrunk, and that would be apparent to anyone doing the shopping.  Thus, it is very easy to speculate on the possibility of seeing Atari's potato at retail.

 

This is, of course, ignoring the completely separate question of if Atari would ever be in a position to actually produce enough units to supply even a full Wal-Mart region, much less the entire chain.  

PCs are high for sales because of COVID.  This is why the prices have doubled for everything, even GPUs that are several years old.  Everyone says the PCs are dying, but they keep selling.  https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/01/pc-sales-finally-saw-big-growth-in-2020-after-years-of-steady-decline/

 

As far as Atari being able to produce enough?  Clearly EVERYONE in the damn industry is having that issue.  Otherwise you wouldn't see 3090s for 2500, 3080s for 1500, and you can't even find the new AMD processors anywhere, or their new GPUs.  Computer Electronics are a shit show at the moment.

[Matt_B]

13 minutes ago, leech said:

Ha, unlike most people thinking you'd need a monitor with a PC you know most people have HDMI TVs at this point...

This is just getting silly. Sure, most people have HDMI TVs, but most people also either have a computer that's not a complete POS or enough money to buy one.

 

I'd think that, such as there is a market for Walmart craptops, it's probably going to include a lot of people who are technologically illiterate, don't have any PC peripherals lying around, have no internet, and/or are still using a TV that's twenty years old. Well, maybe that and people whose laptop has just died and they can't afford to wait until it gets repaired or a replacement to arrive.

 

Conversely, about the only people who'd find a VCS to be a worthwhile purchase are the ones who've already got ten PCs and are looking for a new tinker toy. Well, that and the ones who must have absolutely every piece of Atari hardware ever made, but I'd suspect that most of those pre-ordered rather than waiting for it to get to Walmart.

 

 

[leech]

1 minute ago, Matt_B said:

This is just getting silly. Sure, most people have HDMI TVs, but most people also either have a computer that's not a complete POS or enough money to buy one.

 

I'd think that, such as there is a market for Walmart craptops, it's probably going to include a lot of people who are technologically illiterate, don't have any PC peripherals lying around, have no internet, and/or are still using a TV that's twenty years old. Well, maybe that and people whose laptop has just died and they can't afford to wait until it gets repaired or a replacement to arrive.

 

Conversely, about the only people who'd find a VCS to be a worthwhile purchase are the ones who've already got ten PCs and are looking for a new tinker toy. Well, that and the ones who must have absolutely every piece of Atari hardware ever made, but I'd suspect that most of those pre-ordered rather than waiting for it to get to Walmart.

 

 

There was a guy on the discord that was planning on creating a MIDI workstation out of the VCS.  At least another that didn't have a computer at all and wanted to use one for specifically that reason.  The point is, it's a neat little device that you can use as either.  Granted it having only a pre-launch at this point, it's probably more useful if you slap on a live USB stick, a keyboard and mouse and use it as a general computing device.  I don't know about most people, but I usually only fire up 2600 era games and the old Atari arcade games to play around for a few minutes, then get bored.  Then again I also just played 6 hours of Half-Life: Alyx, which was AMAZING.  I'm going to go back to that instead of hanging out on AtariAge.

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, godslabrat said:

I literally did not say that.

You've just brought up a point that I feel needs to be raised, because I've run into it here as well.

 

There's a shitload of commentary about the VCS taking place.  I get that it's hard to keep track of all of it at times, but it would be appreciated if replies were checked against statements before posting them.  It would help with accuracy, for one, but would also cut down on animosity between the pro and con sides if both felt like they were being listened (and replied) to accurately.

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, leech said:

At least another that didn't have a computer at all and wanted to use one for specifically that reason.

 

Genuine question: with all of the other options out there for low-end PCs, how did that person come to choose the VCS as their platform of choice?

 

I really don't have a problem with them choosing it, but it seems like an unusual choice given the prevalence of other hardware pretty much everywhere.

[Matt_B]

Just now, x=usr(1536) said:

Genuine question: with all of the other options out there for low-end PCs, how did that person come to choose the VCS as their platform of choice?

 

I really don't have a problem with them choosing it, but it seems like an unusual choice given the prevalence of other hardware pretty much everywhere.

 

Because you can?

 

I know people who use a Raspberry Pi as their daily driver PC, because it does the job. Most of them also have a $2000 Windows PC to fall back on for the things that it can't do, mind you.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

 

Because you can?

 

I know people who use a Raspberry Pi as their daily driver PC, because it does the job. Most of them also have a $2000 Windows PC to fall back on for the things that it can't do, mind you.

 

Sure, but in this specific case: how did that person land on the VCS as their machine of choice?  I can understand the RasPi and high-end PC, but putting down what's essentially a 3-year 100% deposit on a machine that doesn't exist in order to end up with a low-end PC in an Atari-alike case seems like an odd choice to me when there are clearly other more expedient alternatives out there.

[Matt_B]

1 minute ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Sure, but in this specific case: how did that person land on the VCS as their machine of choice?  I can understand the RasPi and high-end PC, but putting down what's essentially a 3-year 100% deposit on a machine that doesn't exist in order to end up with a low-end PC in an Atari-alike case seems like an odd choice to me when there are clearly other more expedient alternatives out there.

I think I've figured out who he's talking about now.

Suffice it to say that there are lifelong Atari fans out there who have never owned a PC before but are so keen on using the capabilities of their new VCS to the max that they're going to add a drive and install Windows on it so that they'll finally have one.

 

Again, that's probably not a significant demographic in retail terms.

[youxia]

Few points:

-saying PC market is in "decline" sounds like it's in trouble, or that people aren't buying PCs anymore (though I'm not saying it's what you were exactly implying, @godslabrat). This isn't true at all, it's just simply they are not selling as much as they used to because there are other options (and that's before the Covid spike).

 

-the so called "craptops" are perfectly capable of running as everyday machines, doing all the normal-user stuff (at least on performance level, can't speak for build quality and endurance of that Walmart thing). My i3 4GB Lenovo can do just that, and it did survive going around the world couple of times too.

 

-if you managed  get the VCS for 300USD (or less) then it's indeed a fairly good deal, but that's mostly because of Covid keeping PC hardware prices on unreasonably high levels. However, VCS is being sold now for 400, and to use it as a Win-level PC you must throw in an external drive + KBM, so that's at least 450USD. For that price I can build a new PC which will have much better specs, or buy a ready made mini-PC with better specs. Nevermind buying a second hand stuff, which will be even better, and shouldn't be discredited because that's what people do as well (and you can't really buy a second hand VCS below RRP). So, no, it's not some pcmasterrace fantasy, just an everyday reality.

[82-T/A]

10 hours ago, godslabrat said:

So you posted a giant argument, replying to me, about something someone else said?

 

Ooookay.

 

I know that 9 times out of 10, arguments and debates degenerate into ridiculous tangents as an effort to somehow subdue the "opponent" in some ridiculous mental win. My mom retired from a 3-letter agency the day I was born, and socially engineered me for the next 18 years to make sure I was getting my homework done and staying out of trouble. Since it's super-obvious to everyone that this argument is not actually about Wal*Mart selling $300 computers, let's just agree to get right to the point...

 

Is it safe for me to conclude that you do not like the Atari VCS, think it's a waste of money, and think people are stupid for buying it?

- If YES, then why are you in this forum specifically for the Atari VCS, is it to save us from our stupidity, or to make a point?

- If NO, then please (if you don't mind), refine your point? (going back to Walmart and cheap PCs is an instant argument loss since I know this isn't the point)

 

 

Thank you!

[godslabrat]

55 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

- If YES, then why are you in this forum specifically for the Atari VCS, is it to save us from our stupidity, or to make a point?

 

I just have so much love to give.

[82-T/A]

2 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I just have so much love to give.

IT'S OK... you're totally entitled to your opinion.

 

Your answer basically tells me that:

 

"I think the Atari VCS is a bad idea, and I want people to understand that the decision they've made is poor."

 

... that's perfectly OK. But there's probably more to this than that simple answer. There are a lot of people who buy dumb things that we disagree with every single day. The question I'm interested in getting answered is specifically why this one bothers you particularly? I suppose we could spend equal time on the local Communist Party USA message board and enlighten them as to the error of their ways, but we've chosen the Atari VCS. It could be that you just have time on your hands, and this is mildly entertaining to you and convenient since... here we are on AtariAge... and that's totally fine. For me, this discussion is interesting because I actually enjoy the psychological aspect of these discussions and what actually drives people. On another aspect of it, I'm a fan of the VCS, though I recognize the unnecessary aspect of the purchase, but I'm also open to the possibility that there's some fantastical reasoning that I've perhaps missed that you otherwise are enlightened to.

 

No Socratic method here, just genuine inquiry...

 

- Do you want the Atari VCS to fail, and if yes, what would that mean to you (...that you were right?)

- Why is it important that you let us know that our decision was wrong to purchase the VCS?

[Mockduck]

The handful of manbabies on AtariAge here make me sad. It seems like such a waste of a life to be like that, making everyone around them miserable to compensate for whatever depression, substance abuse, maturity, or other issues they are dealing with. I used to just think they were idiots, but time and maturity has convinced me these folks need help. That help needs to happen offline. Hopefully they get it.