The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[Lord Mushroom]

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

You said: "they are doing well in the clothing industry," so you brought up a huge $1.5 trillion industry. Making a few million dollars in a market this massive is not "doing well" and you can't act like it's only fair to compare them to nothing.

You certainly knew when to start and end that quote. The full sentence was: "For a video game company which hasn´t done much for at least 20 years, they are doing well in the clothing industry, and the only reason is a strong brand." 

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

But so are a lot of companies that have little to no brand value. It also doesn't equate to being a brand with the strength of mythical proportions. 

I am not saying Atari is a brand of mythical proportion, I am saying it is strong, and much stronger than its current profit/turnover suggests. 

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

 

What I am saying is that Nintendo´s brand is Nintendo. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon etc. are brands Nintendo owns. Nintendo are mostly selling clothes due to those brands. Whereas Atari is to a larger degree (relatively speaking) selling clothes due to its brand alone. So if Nintendo sells X times more clothes than Atari, Nintendo´s brand is less than X times as valuable as Atari´s brand if we are to equate clothing sales with brand strength.

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Forbes: Nintendo is the 87th most valuable brand on the planet

Atari: Doesn't even show up on their 2020 Most Valuable Brands list - I also tried to find a business profile to Atari on Forbe's site like they have for Nintendo above, and cannot find one. Probably because they would be embarrassed to give a nice profile to a has-been company that has been nothing more than a penny stock until recently.

 

I also read their methodology for determining a strong/valuable brand over twice and couldn't find any mention of T-Shirts/clothing sales in there. Odd.

They should value brands based on clothing sales. (semi-joke)

 

Let´s look at their methodology:

After looking at a universe of 200 global brands with a notable presence in the U.S., our first step in valuing the brands was to determine revenue and earnings before interest and taxes for each one.

[...]

 Next, we allocated a percentage of those earnings to the brand based on the role brands play in each industry.

[...]

 

So Atari is not even considered due its small size of operations. I don´t blame them for this, they just want a fast and easy way to make a list, but it makes the list incorrect.

 

The list makes the same mistake as some of the people I have replied to. They confuse profits for brand value. Sure they limit the damage by taking into consideration what very general industry they are in, but there is plenty of error left. 

 

The clearest example of error is that, surprise surprise, Microsoft is almost on top. Microsoft is a garbage brand.

 

Here is the list if anyone is interested:

https://www.forbes.com/the-worlds-most-valuable-brands/#282ddb3119c0

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Every faithful person around here gets really upset when I point this out, but you must not have ever heard of the Ouya, a no-name newcomer that raised over $8 million on their promise of a cheap game console, they had over 55,000 backers from that alone. No brand, no name, yet they managed to rake in multiple times more interest and money than Atari did with the VCS.

I have heard of Ouya. It was a novel idea at the time, and it was to be much cheaper than the VCS. Despite its superiority in terms of value for money over the VCS, it failed. So when someone comes up with the same idea, only worse, the funding should have gone poorly. But the Atari brand made it a success.

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

You've undermined your own argument about how strong the Atari brand is here - it's worth about $3 million, so about $1m more than what Atari was asking for back in 2012.

Just because the VCS raised $3 million due to the brand, that doesn´t mean that the brand is only worth that amount. 

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Selling "tens of thousands" of hardware products is something that console makers can do every month.

Selling tens of thousands of expensive consoles is not impressive. Selling tens of thousands of crappy expensive consoles is.

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

No one is going to jump from buying a $20 shirt to a $300+ console that has nothing special about it and weak game library with few exclusives because of that logo.

10 000 people already have. They even paid for it years before they got it without knowing exactly how it would be.

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Meanwhile, Nintendo can slap their name on any hardware product it instantly sells hundreds of thousands - even flops like the WiiU sold hundreds of thousands of units in the first months.

The WiiU was a much much much much better product at the time than the VCS is. Also, I agree that Nintendo is a stronger brand.

 

2 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Nintendo's stock issues have become the stuff of legends, while a pile of the Flashback 7s/8s/9s/Whatever will sit around until the store shoves them out on clearance sales.

Total Flashback sales is over 3 million. Very good for a retro console, especially considering how crappy the early ones were.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Lord Mushroom

[Lord Mushroom]

1 hour ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Atari could be successful if there was a precondition of it being successful, you say?

No, I am saying the Atari brand will amplify success and mitigate failure of an endeavor. That is what a good brand does.

[Lord Mushroom]

25 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

Lol, peace out.✌️ 

Just because he hasn´t done much to win favours from the fans, the profits have risen sharply, and that is the sign of a good CEO. 

 

A great CEO would have done much better, but he has made a lot of money for his shareholders, and few if any Atari CEOs for the last 40 years can say the same.

 

It is possible to criticise him for the lack of development of the brand, and praise him for the financial turnaround, at the same time.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Something I've been wondering about and would appreciate if anyone in favour of the Atari Hotels idea can give me some clarity on:

 

What is the attraction behind staying in a hotel that is completely themed after a company logo, with one of the selling points being that you can play video games in your room?

 

Two examples that I am very familiar with which illustrate why I am highly-skeptical about this idea: the Disneyland Hotel in Anaheim, California, and every casino hotel in Las Vegas.

 

Both of those places understand one fundamental aspect of being lodging attached to (or containing) attractions - namely, that by the time people are retiring to their rooms for the night, they're generally 110% ready to be away from the excitement and resting somewhere detached from the main event.  The Disneyland Hotel does an excellent job of this, looking for all the world like any other nice hotel inside the rooms (though with Disney-specific but unobtrusive art on the walls).  Ditto Las Vegas, where guest rooms are generally insulated from casino noise and make virtually zero reference to the gambling floors.

 

Playing a video game while laying in bed?  I can do that at home.  Unless there's a reason for the hotel to also be a destination and / or activity in and of itself, there really isn't much point that I can see in staying there other than everywhere else was booked up solid.

[Cebus Capucinis]

1 minute ago, x=usr(1536) said:

 

What is the attraction behind staying in a hotel that is completely themed after a company logo, with one of the selling points being that you can play video games in your room?

People are weird, man. I think that's explanation enough. Give enough of a population size, there's bound to be a few standard deviations for those with raging priapism upon check-in who furiously spank it to Fuji logos the instant they get in the room (if they can even make it that far).

 

Side-note: if your company ever makes you stay in the Atari hotel, bring a black light. 

[+Stephen]

4 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I mean that if the hotels offer lots of different video games to play, and generally have a well made video game theme, having the Atari brand will boost revenue significantly compared to not having the brand, which will boost profits considerably for the hotel owners.

Wow - you nailed it.  I know every time my wife & I travel, our first thought is "I sure hope this hotel has some Pong and Space Invaders".  I can't tell you how many places we have turned down because their complete lack of any kind of video game theme.  Same as when we go out for a nice dinner too.  We'll definitely pick a Chuck E Cheese style place full of screaming kids and loud games over any lousy steakhouse or hibachi grille.

[Cebus Capucinis]

5 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Wow - you nailed it.  I know every time my wife & I travel, our first thought is "I sure hope this hotel has some Pong and Space Invaders".  I can't tell you how many places we have turned down because their complete lack of any kind of video game theme.  Same as when we go out for a nice dinner too.  We'll definitely pick a Chuck E Cheese style place full of screaming kids and loud games over any lousy steakhouse or hibachi grille.

See? I can smell the raging priapism through the INTERNET!

[+x=usr(1536)]

12 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Side-note: if your company ever makes you stay in the Atari hotel, bring a black light. 

And start using it in the parking lot.

 

"I've got a major Pong-on that hasn't stopped since we got off the Interstate for lunch!"

Edited April 17, 2021 by x=usr(1536)

[Lord Mushroom]

12 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Wow - you nailed it.  I know every time my wife & I travel, our first thought is "I sure hope this hotel has some Pong and Space Invaders".  I can't tell you how many places we have turned down because their complete lack of any kind of video game theme.  Same as when we go out for a nice dinner too.  We'll definitely pick a Chuck E Cheese style place full of screaming kids and loud games over any lousy steakhouse or hibachi grille.

Yet Chuck E Cheese exists. Strange.

[+Stephen]

4 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Yet Chuck E Cheese exists. Strange.

So does White Castle.  I'll go anywhere else for a burger, but I hear some people will take any port in a storm.

[Lord Mushroom]

20 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Something I've been wondering about and would appreciate if anyone in favour of the Atari Hotels idea can give me some clarity on:

 

What is the attraction behind staying in a hotel that is completely themed after a company logo, with one of the selling points being that you can play video games in your room?

I don´t know that you can play video games in your room, but I would assume you can. There will also be gaming playgrounds.

 

39 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Unless there's a reason for the hotel to also be a destination and / or activity in and of itself, there really isn't much point that I can see in staying there other than everywhere else was booked up solid.

Yes, the idea is that it is supposed to be an attraction in itself in addition to whatever else is around.

[Lord Mushroom]

21 minutes ago, Stephen said:

So does White Castle.  I'll go anywhere else for a burger, but I hear some people will take any port in a storm.

I have also heard that some people have different opinions on restaurants and hotels. Even other things.

[Cebus Capucinis]

44 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

And start using it in the parking lot.

 

"I've got a major Pong-on that hasn't stopped since we got off the Interstate for lunch!"

If anyone asks you to play Pong Doubles in the lobby......ABANDON HOPE.

 

Or worse, Quadra-Pong.....

 

Re: White Castle, 27-beers-deep-me vehemently disagrees with your assertion. Funny how sober-as-a-judge-me couldn't agree more, though!

[+x=usr(1536)]

24 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I don´t know that you can play video games in your room, but I would assume you can. There will also be gaming playgrounds.

That's as good as anyone's guess.  God knows there's no telling what they're aiming for from their vision page, but it certainly makes excellent use of buzzwords.

40 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Yes, the idea is that it is supposed to be an attraction in itself in addition to whatever else is around.

Okay, but everything I'm seeing them offer (and there is admittedly-scant information available right now) is either something I can do at or near to home, or falls into the category of 'novelty'.   It's not clear to me where the repeat or even just extended stay is an attractive proposition - or why I should pick them over any other hotel I might stay at.

[toiletunes]

Don't get me wrong, I would totally stay at an Atari and/or Atari-themed hotel, depending on price, location, amenities etc. I'd be all over playing 2600 style games in the room.

 

I just don't think the general population would think the same way. It wouldn't be a detriment, but it wouldn't be a draw either. I think hotel business is more about location, price, comfort, and safety. Not Pong.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

3 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

 

 

The clearest example of error is that, surprise surprise, Microsoft is almost on top. Microsoft is a garbage brand.

 

 

Lol, why do I even bother? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, something that goes on an awful lot in the VCS threads.

[Cebus Capucinis]

35 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Lol, why do I even bother? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, something that goes on an awful lot in the VCS threads.

The common thread between every VCS thread seems to be "value means how much I personally and individually like the product and somehow my experience extrapolates to everyone else (or at least the majority as I perceive it) and when faced with real, living, breathing contrary facts and/or opinions I will warp reality to justify my expectations."

 

Not saying this as an insult to anyone, but that's a unique key feature (i.e., a divergent theory of mind and inability to empathize or perceive others as separate individuals) of a particular psychologically unique condition that also overlaps substantially with "intricately detailed interest in minutae of topics beyond what most people would have." Again, not an insult to anyone, but I'm wondering if that's at play here a bit.

 

It makes particular sense when we dissenters say things like above - "I don't think the general population would be interested in things I am," for example.

 

Armchair psychology over. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[jaybird3rd]

Can there be such a thing as a video game based on linguistic and/or mental gymnastics?  We all know about dance/rhythm games, in which players have to stretch and strain themselves to match difficult dance moves, or to reproduce challenging musical performances.  Could there be a game in which they are challenged to contort themselves in the same way to defend increasingly untenable points of view?  I think "Atari" has the potential to create a whole new game genre here, and judging from their biggest fans, they seem to have a built-in audience which is already primed to play.

[Cebus Capucinis]

2 minutes ago, jaybird3rd said:

Can there be such a thing as a video game based on linguistic and/or mental gymnastics?

I think the closest anyone has come are those Ace Attorney games.

 

Just add in drafting a 15-17 page brief on how opposing counsel ACTUALLY SAID they admitted the statute REALLY says you win and you've basically got the genre nailed.

 

[Shaggy the Atarian]

15 minutes ago, jaybird3rd said:

Can there be such a thing as a video game based on linguistic and/or mental gymnastics?  We all know about dance/rhythm games, in which players have to stretch and strain themselves to match difficult dance moves, or to reproduce challenging musical performances.  Could there be a game in which they are challenged to contort themselves in the same way to defend increasingly untenable points of view?  I think "Atari" has the potential to create a whole new game genre here, and judging from their biggest fans, they seem to have a built-in audience which is already primed to play.

Shill Shill Revolution?  

[leech]

Wonder if we can get mods to move discussion of Atari Hotels to a different thread than the titled VCS Info Thread, as I hardly think any of the hotel crap is relevant to the system. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

56 minutes ago, leech said:

Wonder if we can get mods to move discussion of Atari Hotels to a different thread than the titled VCS Info Thread, as I hardly think any of the hotel crap is relevant to the system. 

That's actually a really good idea.  I started the following thread in case mods are looking for somewhere to dump the posts:

 

 

[jaybird3rd]

1 hour ago, leech said:

Wonder if we can get mods to move discussion of Atari Hotels to a different thread than the titled VCS Info Thread, as I hardly think any of the hotel crap is relevant to the system. 

When I have the chance, I'll relocate the hotel-related posts from the last few pages of this thread.

[jerseystyle]

7 hours ago, jaybird3rd said:

Can there be such a thing as a video game based on linguistic and/or mental gymnastics?  We all know about dance/rhythm games, in which players have to stretch and strain themselves to match difficult dance moves, or to reproduce challenging musical performances.  Could there be a game in which they are challenged to contort themselves in the same way to defend increasingly untenable points of view?  I think "Atari" has the potential to create a whole new game genre here, and judging from their biggest fans, they seem to have a built-in audience which is already primed to play.

Disco Elysium. As a bonus, the opening screen in that game is exactly what I picture a night at an Atari Hotel would be like.

[Lord Mushroom]

11 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

What is the attraction behind staying in a hotel that is completely themed after a company logo, with one of the selling points being that you can play video games in your room?

For me it is partly the novelty and partly the ability to kill downtime by playing video games. I would be mostly interested in arcade games. Particularly games where you physically ride a motorcycle to control the bike, sit inside a spaceship or something like that.

 

I wouldn´t travel to an Atari hotel just to stay at it. But if I was to choose between regular hotels and an Atari hotel, I would choose Atari. 

 

I would imagine a video game hotel would be great for families. Hotels are typically boring for kids, but a video game hotel wouldn´t be. The kids could head down to the playroom(s) and the parents could get some peace and quiet.