The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[zzip]

Outright mischaracterization. It was almost always about what the product could do that other products couldn't already do (like XBOX/PS4) or about Atari's ability to actually produce a console (Coleco pt 2?).

 

 

You guys stop affirming what I already said! You'll make my head even bigger than before. Unfortunately, no one ever gave a practical reason to by the AVCS. At least, not based on things we knew at the time. Anyone can wishcast.

I have given a practical reason many times. It's a open Linux-based game console that isn't a DIY hardware build, and cheaper than a Steambox. It's open nature means it can be all your flashbacks in one box. Being AMD based, it can run stuff a Pi solution can't.

 

Now I get that won't appeal to everyone, but I think it's perfectly valid.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

 

It's all about keeping things in perspective, really. Crowdfunding always sounds more impressive than it really is. Consider that Ouya ended up with around 63,000 backers on Kickstarter and then couldn't sustain a business once it hit retail. The Atari VCS could easily hit the same numbers (or even a littler better) with its combination of consoles and controllers, but that doesn't mean much once it hits retail. This again is the relatively easy part, and perhaps the easiest.

 

The money is in the software. Oouya was a hardware business (I did have one). For a company to survive they need to have their own store and sell stuff. That's where the money is.

[bojay1997]

 

The money is in the software. Oouya was a hardware business (I did have one). For a company to survive they need to have their own store and sell stuff. That's where the money is.

Ouya tried mightily to become a software business, even paying crazy amounts to developers to launch titles exclusively on their store. Ultimately, with a total installed base of 200K units after the crowdfunding campaign and selling direct and at retail, I believe the top selling game ever on the Ouya store moved 7,000 units. Many people who owned an Ouya, myself included, never even bothered to buy from the official store. In short, for Atari to have a viable product here, they are going to need to get hundreds of thousands of units into the hands of customers and some exclusive titles to drive software purchases. Of course, if crowdfunding covers their hardware production costs and generates enough margin, they may not need to support this product at all past delivery.

[Keatah]

 

The question was always, "Why would anyone be interested in such a thing over existing options you can buy today?"

An answer, by the way, was never given here. It seems it boils down to: "Because Atari!" or "Because it looks sexy!"

 

The answer has always been "because Atari"!

 

---

 

When it comes to doing the same things, the existing hardware is the better choice, it's real, and it works today.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Keatah

[alexkeaton]

 

The Switch literally offered a hybrid console and portable experience in a way that past attempts, like the Wii U and Vita, failed to do properly for one reason or another.

 

The NES Mini was a slam dunk concept that was literally just waiting for Nintendo to give the go-ahead for. It was inexpensive and offered an official way to play significant NES titles in a TV game form factor. Same with the SNES Mini and same with the inevitable Game Boy and N64 Minis.

 

The Atari VCS offers...? Less for more money? No particular hook?

 

How did the people knew that the Switch portable would not fail like the Vita before it even came out?

 

Why was gaming on the NES Mini better than on the Virtual Console?

Wasnt the Virtual Console not also a an inexpensive and official way to play the old Games?

[romeoteknik]

This stuck out to me:

 

"By Spring 2019 when Atari VCS ships, we plan to have new and exclusive games for you to download* or stream, including reimagined classic titles from Atari and other top developers that are ready-to-play, with even more to come! (*Subscription required for advanced services and cloud storage.)"

 

Then in the specs box at the bottom:

Subscription Needed? No. Includes cloud and other services.

 

So which is it? What exactly is this "subscription"? What are these "advanced services"? Are they seriously going to offer an Xbox Live Gold/PS+ type service? If so, they need to explain it more thoroughly rather than hide details behind a small asterisk.

Edited May 31, 2018 by romeoteknik

[bojay1997]

 

How did the people knew that the Switch portable would not fail like the Vita before it even came out?

 

Why was gaming on the NES Mini better than on the Virtual Console?

Wasnt the Virtual Console not also a an inexpensive and official way to play the old Games?

They didn't know whether the Switch would fail or not, but they did know that it existed and that Nintendo would make a reasonable effort to support it with great software as they had done on every other platform they launched previously. The NES Mini was small and nostalgic and very inexpensive and again, it existed and was able to be purchased immediately. Nintendo didn't ask people to give them $200+ to hold on to for a year or more on a vague promise that they might eventually deliver. You're comparing one of the largest and most successful video games companies in history to a small entity that purchased some IP rights to a defunct company that hasn't really existed in 20+ years.

[racerx]

This stuck out to me:

 

"By Spring 2019 when Atari VCS ships, we plan to have new and exclusive games for you to download* or stream, including reimagined classic titles from Atari and other top developers that are ready-to-play, with even more to come! (*Subscription required for advanced services and cloud storage.)"

 

Then in the specs box at the bottom:

 

Subscription Needed? No. Includes cloud and other services.

 

So which is it? What exactly is this "subscription"? What are these "advanced services"? Are they seriously going to offer an Xbox Live Gold/PS+ type service? If so, they need to explain it more thoroughly rather than hide details behind a small asterisk.

 

This is just an example of the silliness that we pillory over in the "Taco" thread.

 

There are literally thousands of people throwing money at "Atari," when "Atari" themselves isn't really sure what they're doing or what they're making.

[CPUWIZ]

Keep the bollocks in the other thread please. I just took the ban hammer out of the safe.

[82-T/A]

There was a "Secret Perk" one can unlock on the page via a promo email they sent out about a day before the campaign went live, that lets you "reserve" a unit at that early bird price for a (slightly) longer time.

 

...

 

The only real difference between this and the regular Early Bird is that the Early Bird offer that's visible on that page expires on the 4th of June, while the "secret perk" doesn't expire until the 6th. A whole 48 extra hours to contemplate making a poor financial decision.

 

 

I'm so pathetic, I bought one.

 

$251 shipped. I bought the Onyx w/ Joystick.

 

 

I don't know if it'll ever come... July 2019 is a long way away...

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

I'm so pathetic, I bought one.

 

$251 shipped. I bought the Onyx w/ Joystick.

 

 

I don't know if it'll ever come... July 2019 is a long way away...

I gotta love that slick looking stick. I backed a whopping grand total $33 to get one. If they don't deliver, I win't lose sleep over it. If they do deliver, I get something cool and unique. If I really like it, I may even mod it with a 9-pin plug...

 

Or maybe 8bitdo release a 9-pin wireless adapter to use the bt vcs2 stick on a stock vcs1. Hey, one can dream, can't he?

[youxia]

It's a open Linux-based game console that isn't a DIY hardware build, and cheaper than a Steambox. It's open nature means it can be all your flashbacks in one box. Being AMD based, it can run stuff a Pi solution can't.

Are you sure it is actually "open"? Or will be it just some custom Linux flavour OS, with plenty of restrictions from Atari? One quote I saw said "you can access games you've bought from other content platforms" - that's not very "open".

 

And even if it is truly open, you will eventually have to do all the legwork yourself - leading to the usual elephant-in-the-room question of "why not just buy a mini PC". Or even, the Arcade Dreamplay. While I'm not a fan of that box for assorted reasons it admittedly has better specs/lower price.

[Keatah]

I gotta love that slick looking stick. I backed a whopping grand total $33 to get one. If they don't deliver, I win't lose sleep over it. If they do deliver, I get something cool and unique. If I really like it, I may even mod it with a 9-pin plug...

 

Or maybe 8bitdo release a 9-pin wireless adapter to use the bt vcs2 stick on a stock vcs1. Hey, one can dream, can't he?

 

I could easily imagine accenting an existing joystick with LED lights. Pre-wired LEDs can be had cheaply and they come all kinds of sizes.

[zzip]

How did the people knew that the Switch portable would not fail like the Vita before it even came out?

 

Why was gaming on the NES Mini better than on the Virtual Console?

Wasnt the Virtual Console not also a an inexpensive and official way to play the old Games?

I thought the Switch would fail like the Wii U had.

 

I also didn't understand the hype around the NES mini. It was yet another flashback, and we could all play the games already.

 

But admittedly I was no NES fanboy back in the day, so it means nothing to me. Nostalgia is a powerful thing for those with fond memories of it

[Flojomojo]

Are you sure it is actually "open"? Or will be it just some custom Linux flavour OS, with plenty of restrictions from Atari? One quote I saw said "you can access games you've bought from other content platforms" - that's not very "open".

 

And even if it is truly open, you will eventually have to do all the legwork yourself - leading to the usual elephant-in-the-room question of "why not just buy a mini PC". Or even, the Arcade Dreamplay. While I'm not a fan of that box for assorted reasons it admittedly has better specs/lower price.

 

They said it was Ubuntu kernel 4.1.0 and they keep talking about the "unique developer and community freedom" aspect of it. So you should be able to sideload apps ... so long as you keep in mind that not everything is going to have controller support, and that there's only 32GB of space in the onboard storage device ... and of course, that you'll be on your own when doing so. I seem to have read at least a few comments from people approaching this is My First Linux Box, which may not go well for them, but they can discover that on their own.

 

"Access the Linux Sandbox, add more storage via cloud or USB, run multiple operating systems at once, load Homebrew games or customize your own unique platform."

 

I'm curious if they're going to lock down the boot volume. Sony makes it possible to create a restore device for PS4 if you swap out the hard drive. Since the proposed VCS hardware is so generic, it seems like it would be trivial to extract the OS and run it elsewhere. Maybe Atari will encrypt it. A good test of its real popularity would be if anyone bothers to decrypt it.

 

If you're waiting for AtariBox or interested in what this thing will be able to do ... you could just install Lakka on something you already have (Pi or PC) ... booting from the Lakka device will give you the ability to run lots of old games with RetroArch. Skip the middleman, do it yourself.

[Dr Manhattan]

I'm so pathetic, I bought one.

 

$251 shipped. I bought the Onyx w/ Joystick.

 

I don't know if it'll ever come... July 2019 is a long way away...

 

Nothing pathetic about it. I bought one as well. The full wood grain total package with a second classic style controller. I actually used money I won from a scratch off ticket. I feel it's sorta like gambling with found money, which honestly makes the whole thing a lot more exciting for me. For the longest time I was certain this whole campaign was a nostalgia based cash run. A hit and run funding scam. That might still be the case. However, there's also the chance that I might be pleasantly surprised by the whole thing. I will say that sweet looking retro controller really does bolster my confidence in the project. Now if only they would introduce some new paddle controllers to go with it.

[Plastik]

 

They said it was Ubuntu kernel 4.1.0 and they keep talking about the "unique developer and community freedom" aspect of it. So you should be able to sideload apps ... so long as you keep in mind that not everything is going to have controller support, and that there's only 32GB of space in the onboard storage device ... and of course, that you'll be on your own when doing so. I seem to have read at least a few comments from people approaching this is My First Linux Box, which may not go well for them, but they can discover that on their own.

 

"Access the Linux Sandbox, add more storage via cloud or USB, run multiple operating systems at once, load Homebrew games or customize your own unique platform."

 

I'm curious if they're going to lock down the boot volume. Sony makes it possible to create a restore device for PS4 if you swap out the hard drive. Since the proposed VCS hardware is so generic, it seems like it would be trivial to extract the OS and run it elsewhere. Maybe Atari will encrypt it. A good test of its real popularity would be if anyone bothers to decrypt it.

 

If you're waiting for AtariBox or interested in what this thing will be able to do ... you could just install Lakka on something you already have (Pi or PC) ... booting from the Lakka device will give you the ability to run lots of old games with RetroArch. Skip the middleman, do it yourself.

I really was down for this system as a linux user/gamer I see the potential but even on the linux gaming reddit we are sadden by the hardware and kernel. Then UDOO dropped there kickstarter for a super small board with AMD Ryzen V1000 and choice of Vega 3 or 8 GPU! VCS has a nicer case but the UDOO board is packing some serious hardware plus UDOO has be around and making SBC's for a while now so no fear of not getting what they promised.

[Mockduck]

Sorry I've been quite busy in recent days (went camping with my six year old), but I have updated the OP with what I think is the more relevant info from the IndieGoGo campaign page. I'll update it in the coming days and weeks as relevant info and data comes in.

[Mockduck]

This stuck out to me:

 

"By Spring 2019 when Atari VCS ships, we plan to have new and exclusive games for you to download* or stream, including reimagined classic titles from Atari and other top developers that are ready-to-play, with even more to come! (*Subscription required for advanced services and cloud storage.)"

 

Then in the specs box at the bottom:

 

Subscription Needed? No. Includes cloud and other services.

 

So which is it? What exactly is this "subscription"? What are these "advanced services"? Are they seriously going to offer an Xbox Live Gold/PS+ type service? If so, they need to explain it more thoroughly rather than hide details behind a small asterisk.

 

It does look like there will be some kind of subscription service for cloud gaming and some other things. It's been mentioned on the IndieGoGo page, but not much has been said about it. You won't need a subscription to buy games from their store, for sure, though.

[JBerel]

I really was down for this system as a linux user/gamer I see the potential but even on the linux gaming reddit we are sadden by the hardware and kernel. Then UDOO dropped there kickstarter for a super small board with AMD Ryzen V1000 and choice of Vega 3 or 8 GPU! VCS has a nicer case but the UDOO board is packing some serious hardware plus UDOO has be around and making SBC's for a while now so no fear of not getting what they promised.

Nice. I'm in a soon as they reach production, but not before.

[Max Ivi]

I want to know:I want

I want to know : Important Industrial partner will be unveiled during the Indiegogo Campaign ? there is the question

[Zonie]

Well, IBM was the industrial partner for the Jag. Perhaps Global Foundries or Lenovo.

[thetick1]

 

They said it was Ubuntu kernel 4.1.0 and they keep talking about the "unique developer and community freedom" aspect of it. So you should be able to sideload apps .............

...

"Access the Linux Sandbox, add more storage via cloud or USB, run multiple operating systems at once, load Homebrew games or customize your own unique platform."

.....

I'm curious if they're going to lock down the boot volume.

 

I seriously doubt Atari would lock down the boot partition. I don't think they have the slightest knowledge how even do encryption with a simple software implementation which would be hacked anyway in a matter of hours from when machine ship to the masses. I am sure attempting any custom hardware encryption is well beyond the developers knowledge base.

Edited June 2, 2018 by thetick1

[youxia]

If you're waiting for AtariBox or interested in what this thing will be able to do ... you could just install Lakka on something you already have (Pi or PC) ... booting from the Lakka device will give you the ability to run lots of old games with RetroArch. Skip the middleman, do it yourself.

Personally, I'm strictly DIY. Already have a Pi/Retropie and currently assembling a GroovyCube-style mini PC.

 

I have no interest in any of these nostalgia boxes, but don't begrudge anybody wanting one: each to its own. Just find this "open" angle curious, since there are so many better, truly open options and I doubt entity such as Atari would allow real freedom. Even if they did, you'd probably hit a lots of snags on hardware/software/compatibility/support level. It can be a challenge to get everything running properly on the Pi (and it's as open as you can get), nevermind this strange, tailored project.

 

That besides the giant red flags of low-speciness and actually not even existing yet.

[MotoRacer]

I'm going to take a crack at this...

 

 

 

WHO:

 

Not Atari.

 

WHAT:

 

A very cheap little board that will essentially play mobile games if the list of developers and games they make has anything to say about what's to come.

 

WHY:

 

Who the hell knows.... a dare? A drinking game with the folks at Coleco?

 

WHAT TO EXPECT:

 

A ten dollar compilation game that Atari didn't even make themselves (it's one of their 14 devs signed on to the system), a version of Tempest you will be able to play on other devices and is also not made by Atari (made by one of the other 14 signed on devs for the system), and a 100 dollar price hike once it's released to the public with zero guarantee you'll actually get a system if you instead buy through the crowd fund as they have no working prototype, hence Indiegogo.

 

WHEN:

 

I wouldn't expect it to come out in 2019. Expect delays. Expect many delays.

 

HOW MUCH:

 

If you get the wood grain model with the two controllers, literally the exact price I got my refurbished Xbox One X for. Yikes.

 

WHAT GAMES:

 

Tempest 4000, Atari Vault, and the following based on the developers signed on:

 

Eden Games - Gear Club - An awful racing game currently on mobile and Switch. A budge racer with barely serviceable controls, micro-transactions and dated graphics even by mobile standards.

 

Monster Games - Nascar Heat - A mediocre Nascar racing game that's currently on sale for about half off or less because of poor sales.

 

In the case of GameAholics... who knows, their site is a single page and looks like it was made on Geocities

 

Code Mystics - Super Dungeon Bros - It was a free title on Xbox Live a few months ago. It's a decent little indie game.

 

In the case of PlayMagic, they've been around since 2014 with no games in their repertoire. Their site only lists they have "AAA games coming to Oculus, PSVR, Switch, Xbox, PS4 for the next three years"

 

Kung Fu Factory - Floop The Pig! It's Adventure Time Card Wars - A very, very mobile type game. They seem to make the same game but with different licenses from popular franchises.

 

NVizzio - Rollercoaster Tycoon Touch - It's Rollercoaster Tycoon....for mobile! Woo...

 

Origin 8 - This extroidinarily gifted developer has made so many games of the most top tier quality! I know we've all played PokerBuddy, BioSub, MOnsterKill, Robot Rampage, and we've all used that app FakeMyCall. Ok, my bitter attitude is starting to show...

 

Petroglyph - 8 Big Army Arena, 8-Bit Hordes, 8-Bit Armies, Grey Goo, Victory Command (cancelled) - This once proudish developer who once made Star Wars Empire At War now makes these...quality mobile games! (coughs blood).

 

WHY AGAIN ARE YOU BUYING THIS:

Nostalgia and unanswered hopes and dreams. This is the equivalent of me funding a future crowd funded Sega console. I might buy it, but I know it'll suck. You know it would suck. We all know it would suck. But you buy it because there's that .00000000025% chance it could work and you want to support them because your childhood self would kick you in the balls if you didn't.

Edited June 2, 2018 by MotoRacer