The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[thetick1]

 

So on Android or iOS, would you prefer:

1) to have ads with the full game or

2) to have no ads at all but a watered down version to play. Then use in-app purchases for more functionabilty. So basically you can play the game but to have longer torch times to see underground you'd have to purchase that.

3) What age group do you think this is best suited for?

 

(The thing about ads is that you don't make any money. The person has to click though for the game to get a penny or 2).

 

Well I'm more into the simple games that have limited intrusive ads. I'll be honest while mobile I spend most time with my Atari Flashback Portable and Bitboy because there are no ads. I'm also a bit cheap in general so I'm currently not a ideal customer. I do buy some recent games for the 3DS for me my son, but generally get them used at Gamestop. I buy Steam/GOG/Humble when I see a great bargain and the game hits a nostalgic button (ie like Cinemaware Anthology: 1986-1991 on sale for $2.49!).

 

As far as answering your questions I generally like the full game with no intrusive ads as opposed to watered down freebee with in-app purchases for more functionality.

[bojay1997]

 

Thanks you for your input. Could you expand a little please. We have dozens of people at shows that have commented so we wanted to compare that with people on this web site.

- What state would someone pay for it? and at what price point? Steam price? Android price?

- What do not like about the game? The artwork? The music? and why?

- What improvements would you suggest to get it to a level that you think someone would pay for it?

Sure, to me it looks super generic and in a world where you already have Spelunky and a ton of other high quality indie platform games, why would anyone pay for a game with low end sprite animation and totally uncompelling level designs? I mean it honestly looks like one of those platform games that people were cranking out a few years ago on Steam before there was a refund policy. Unless you've created some new and novel play mechanic, you really need to team with more experienced team members to make something like this work. A good art director, animator, level designer and a professional composer are a few things that would at least put you in a similar league as other indie developers currently doing games of this type.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

 

Well I'm more into the simple games that have limited intrusive ads. I'll be honest while mobile I spend most time with my Atari Flashback Portable and Bitboy because there are no ads. I'm also a bit cheap in general so I'm currently not a ideal customer. I do buy some recent games for the 3DS for me my son, but generally get them used at Gamestop. I buy Steam/GOG/Humble when I see a great bargain and the game hits a nostalgic button (ie like Cinemaware Anthology: 1986-1991 on sale for $2.49!).

 

As far as answering your questions I generally like the full game with no intrusive ads as opposed to watered down freebee with in-app purchases for more functionality.

 

Thanks that does help. When we go to shows we have a questionnaire for people to fill out. We ask their age range, gender, number of times they played video games in the last month and stuff like that. It someone says the game sucks, then why? If someone likes it then why? I myself don't really buy video games anymore. I play Zynga Spades every day. It's not 3d, does not look good but is fun to play (it helps I am a world class spades player too). Most of what you just said most other people say the same thing on the forms.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Sure, to me it looks super generic and in a world where you already have Spelunky and a ton of other high quality indie platform games, why would anyone pay for a game with low end sprite animation and totally uncompelling level designs? I mean it honestly looks like one of those platform games that people were cranking out a few years ago on Steam before there was a refund policy. Unless you've created some new and novel play mechanic, you really need to team with more experienced team members to make something like this work. A good art director, animator, level designer and a professional composer are a few things that would at least put you in a similar league as other indie developers currently doing games of this type.

 

Thanks for your reply.

So I'm hearing you just don't think the sound or graphics are up to what you would want. I'm also hearing this is the type of game you would buy but in this case it's not up to your standards from the video you have seen (as opposed to not being the genre you'd normally buy). Good feedback.

 

BTW: Steam's refund policy is horrible. You have 2 weeks for a refund with less than 2 hours of gameplay. Could you imagine a movie theatre offering the same deal? Maybe when Amazon gets their new platform going they will help developers out a lot better which in turn Steam will be forced to change their ways as well. I did read an interesting article which said that 80% of all Steam games bought are elligible for a refund.

[Flojomojo]

It looks like a rougher version of Traps & Gemstones. I think it would be hard for a game of this type to get attention unless it were really very polished, and special. Are you looking to make money from this, or just get it out there?

 

Steam's refund policy is OK for buyers. Steam isn't a movie theater.

[Keatah]

The VCSii now how an installed base of 10,000. It should be dual bootable with Atari UI and Linux Sandbox so you can install Steam. This means this will be very little money to be made for any game on the Atari UI. I have exported it out to a laptop with Linux Mint installed and it plays exactly like the Windows does without any modification. Although Atari will have their own SDK to get it to work with them so there will be a little work there.

 

An installed base means the unit is already in customer's hands and is fully operational. Can you show me who has these 10,000 units?

Edited August 12, 2018 by Keatah

[BiffsGamingVideos]

It looks like a rougher version of Traps & Gemstones. I think it would be hard for a game of this type to get attention unless it were really very polished, and special. Are you looking to make money from this, or just get it out there?

 

Steam's refund policy is OK for buyers. Steam isn't a movie theater.

 

That game looks cool too.

[Andromeda Stardust]

5) If on mobile, do you think it should be premium (pay 1 time for everything) or free with In-App Purchases. If premium, then what price point should it be?

Definitely pay once for full unlock. Make the first stage or level the free playable demo. If they like your game, they can unlock the rest with a one time fee for a reasonable price.

 

Micropayments destroys traditional gaming experiences and incourages addicts to compulsively spend (ie "whaling") while leaving those who do not pay with an inferior gaming experience.

 

If you do go with dlc, any dlc purchased by the user needs to be permanently unlocked. Charging for consumables that the player has to buy again after they have been used is unethical. Instead, consumables need to be earned by playing the game itself.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Definitely pay once for full unlock. Make the first stage or level the free playable demo. If they like your game, they can unlock the rest with a one time fee for a reasonable price.

 

Micropayments destroys traditional gaming experiences and incourages addicts to compulsively spend (ie "whaling") while leaving those who do not pay with an inferior gaming experience.

 

If you do go with dlc, any dlc purchased by the user needs to be permanently unlocked. Charging for consumables that the player has to buy again after they have been used is unethical. Instead, consumables need to be earned by playing the game itself.

 

Good feedback. Thanks.

[racerx]

There's indie, and there's indie. Stuff like Yoku's Island Express really show what kind of polish small teams are capable of. I just don't have enough time in my day that I'd probably even look twice at this kind of game.

 

Since in the utter absence of any official news this has turned into a software feedback thread, can we finally just stick a fork in the VCS and call it a day?

[BiffsGamingVideos]

There's indie, and there's indie. Stuff like Yoku's Island Express really show what kind of polish small teams are capable of. I just don't have enough time in my day that I'd probably even look twice at this kind of game.

 

Since in the utter absence of any official news this has turned into a software feedback thread, can we finally just stick a fork in the VCS and call it a day?

 

There's movies and then there's movies. They all can't look like Star Wars. Out of over 900 movies released a year most have no special effects yet people still watch them. An interesting note is that you pay $12 to go to see Star Wars and you pay $12 to go see an indie film with no special effects. They don't discount movies (yes there are $1 movies when their run is over).

 

Some indie teams really aren't indie. They have budgets in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and teams of a number of people. That is in between an indie an a big studio. They may not be backed by a major studio but did get the money from somewhere. What my company is under the definition of a bootstrapper (or guerrilla if talking about filmmaking).

 

Thanks for your feedback (even though I was really looking more for data mining info)

[Mockduck]

"Jungles of Natheria"

http://slifkergames.com/JunglesOfNatheria/JunglesOfNatheria.html

 

I have contiplated if I should post this here but I'll give it a go anyways. I hope it's not a mistake.

 

We have been working on a game coming up on 2 years called "Jungles of Natheria". It is a 2D side scroller whereas you go through the jungles looking for lost treasure. The above link has video, pictures, a blog and forums. The game is about 99.9% complete. We probably will go full beta next month with a Christmas release (Steam and then mobile later)

 

The VCSii now how an installed base of 10,000. It should be dual bootable with Atari UI and Linux Sandbox so you can install Steam. This means this will be very little money to be made for any game on the Atari UI. I have exported it out to a laptop with Linux Mint installed and it plays exactly like the Windows does without any modification. Although Atari will have their own SDK to get it to work with them so there will be a little work there.

 

So I was wondering a few things. We have our own stats from people at expos where the game was shown off but wanted to see what you all thought.

1) Is this a game that should be on the Atari UI? Does it fit the mold?

2) If you are getting the VCSii, is this something you'd possible get?

3) If you use Steam, is this something you'd possible get and on which platform (Mac, Windows, Linux)?

4) What price point should it be?

5) If on mobile, do you think it should be premium (pay 1 time for everything) or free with In-App Purchases. If premium, then what price point should it be?

6) Are the characters too cartooney or are they OK?

7) On the website's main page there are several games not complete. If you had to pick the next one to be finished then which one would it be?

Any other thoughts (and please don't troll or attack.)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq3skB3KSSE

 

1) This seems like something that would make sense on a retro-themed store like the AtariVCS will probably be.

2) I have to admit that the gameplay didn't grab me, so I probably would not purchase it other than to support you as a fellow Atari Ager. Pixel platformers are available by the thousands, especially in recent years, and I don't see anything here that particularly sets it apart or makes it especially interesting to me.

3) I would recommend putting it on Steam, and pricing it under $5. Even though Steam is full of these kind of games, it wouldn't hurt to put it there.

4) In its current state I would recommend pricing it at maybe $2.99 or less. I recognize that is hard to hear, but I think the game needs to fall into the impulse purchase price point.

5) If you are on mobile, it almost HAS to be free to download, with a small fee to remove ads or other barriers. Even if you price it at a buck you'll find your title dead in the water.

6) The characters seemed fine, although the overall presentation is a bit uninspiring to me at least. I like the jungle-guy character as a first draft at least.

7) No opinion.

[bojay1997]

 

There's movies and then there's movies. They all can't look like Star Wars. Out of over 900 movies released a year most have no special effects yet people still watch them. An interesting note is that you pay $12 to go to see Star Wars and you pay $12 to go see an indie film with no special effects. They don't discount movies (yes there are $1 movies when their run is over).

 

Some indie teams really aren't indie. They have budgets in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and teams of a number of people. That is in between an indie an a big studio. They may not be backed by a major studio but did get the money from somewhere. What my company is under the definition of a bootstrapper (or guerrilla if talking about filmmaking).

 

Thanks for your feedback (even though I was really looking more for data mining info)

Yes, but most of those movies fail to turn a profit and those films that are successful have something compelling and interesting about them that captures a portion of the audience. Just because you are not able to put together a team or a budget to make a game of a particular quality doesn't mean that you won't be competing head to head with games from developers that can. Similarly, unlike homebrew 2600 games or some really obscure platform where much of the challenge lies in the technical limitations of the hardware, you are working with a PC environment and that means you will be judged alongside the thousands of high quality games that are released every year, as well as the thousands of others that are pure garbage. No amount of research or marketing is going to change the fact that without a really compelling play mechanic, level design, music, animation and graphics, the public is not going to pay any amount of money for your game, especially when there is so much excellent content out there that far exceeds the available time of gamers to play it all.

Edited August 13, 2018 by bojay1997

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Muckduck

Thanks for your input. That's the type of info I was looking for. I am in listening mode. The game will be out on Steam, play store, iTunes, amazon and windows store at the very least.

 

- It actually is in 1920x1080 at 60FPS but was recorded really low rez and low frame rate. So it's not a pixel game. The characters are 256x256 or 512x512. In a pixel game they are lower such as 64x64. The backgrounds are 1024x1024.

- The video is a gameplay video of the first 10 minutes. This is a trainer area. Once the game is nearing completion I will do trailer videos. Those are fast edited with music and are meant to sell an item. This video came about because a couple distributors wanted to see videos not pictures. Imagine if you watched a the first few minutes of Star Wars. Not to interesting. But watch a trailer and you want to go see it.

- It'll be on Steam first. I hear you about $5. The distributor decides on the price point. The most number of games are $10 bell shaped curve for number of sales. Then they are $20 when talking about profits. When they go on sale they sell a hell of a lot more real fast. That's when people pick them up real cheap (I picked up Bit Evolution in the Steam summer sale for $3.50 and now it's $10 again).

- It's almost universal that everyone wants a free download with a 1 time purchase and no ads. We have been to a number of trade shows having people fill out the forms and they all say that. People hate ads and microtransactions (but microtransactions make a crap ton of money).

- The 2 characters were meant to be prototyping. You can get these cheap and see how they work before hiring people to make real ones. The crazy thing is the biggest comment that people mention is they like the jungle theme and the 2 characters. They compare it to Raiders of the Lost Ark and a Atari 2600 jungle game that was based off of it. This is why I keep asking about them. I think they are too cartoney. So I may decide to leave them in and have a total of 4 characters to choose from.

Edited August 13, 2018 by BiffsGamingVideos

[BiffsGamingVideos]

No amount of research or marketing is going to change the fact that without a really compelling play mechanic, level design, music, animation and graphics, the public is not going to pay any amount of money for your game, especially when there is so much excellent content out there that far exceeds the available time of gamers to play it all.

 

The top game of all time is Microsoft's Solidaire Klondike that came with every Windows copy. It's not 3D, has no SFX or graphics or whatever. I myself play games like: Zynga Spades every day, Sudoku, Chess, Hearts and an Android game called Scrambled Net. I also play a lot of MAME games from the 70s and 80s. But you know what? I have fun playing them. With a potential audience of 7 billion people there are always someone willing. Heck, there are people that watch Duck Dynasty and America's Got talent and shows like that. They make money. So I thank you for you opinion but I was really looking for data mining stats. I am contiplating if I should try to release several games on the Atari UI store or just stay on Steam (Linux).

 

Thanks for your input.

Edited August 13, 2018 by BiffsGamingVideos

[Flojomojo]

Shouldn't this talk of not-Pitfall on the not-VCS go in its own thread?

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Shouldn't this talk of not-Pitfall on the not-VCS go in its own thread?

 

I got banned from the taco thread so it's here in the VCSii thread because it may be released on the VCSii. and You said the P word, not me.

[thetick1]

Shouldn't this talk of not-Pitfall on the not-VCS go in its own thread?

 

It's not like there is anything interesting to talk about concerning VCSii for another YEAR! Our options for discussing are nothing, fanboy gloating, tacos, or possible VCSii games. In my opinion BiffsGamingVideos made a good choice to .. ah hijack this thread.

Edited August 14, 2018 by thetick1

[Flojomojo]

So much virtual ink was spilled in the name of this thread being the serious place for Just The Facts, And No Tacos about the ataribox.

 

Biff was already rebuffed (reBiffed?) once by Atari, and there's no guarantee his not-Pitfall game will be accepted on the new platform, if and when the hardware and store is finished.

 

I guess Biff's Jungle Adventure is the "taco" of this thread, something to talk about in the absence of Ataribox news.

[Mockduck]

I think the game talk does belong in its own thread, although it will/would be interesting to use this game as a public eye on the process of getting a game into the VCS storefront, if Biff is willing and within contract rules.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

MuckDuck,

I am not famaliar with ATari Age's forums management but if there is a way to move these to a new thread that would be fine. Maybe an Atari VCSii software thread. You could set it up. In pro boards the moderator can move messages around so am not sure what atari age uses. So this way people could talk about software for the VCSii.

[racerx]

In official VCS news, today marks two months since AtariVCS has bothered to post on their own Facebook page.

[JBerel]

That's great news. So now only 10 months to ∞to wait for delivery. I've cleared a spot for it on my genuine simulated wood-grain credenza.

[Flojomojo]

I've cleared a spot for it on my genuine simulated wood-grain credenza.

 

Recycling "classic posts" like Atari does with games.

 

 

 

Price is now $399.00. You should have preordered.

[BiffsGamingVideos]

Reddit does have an atari vcs section without the tacos. Lots of good info there.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/AtariVCS/