R0ger Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 Some joysticks also use remapping the second button to up. It's useful for platform games where up is used for jumping. And it might be also used for example in tetris, which does not use up for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donlupi Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I thought too a wireless button, but not all games uses the space key as secondary function in the games.or am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 7800 joystick uses the Pot line and resistors to do just this. I'd be cool if home brewers used this feature on 2600 games.I added a second button to my favorite CX40 and wired it like a proline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Hi all,Here I present my version 1.1 of joystick for 3 buttons easy to make for XL-XE and compatible with 2600. the scheme is very simple It is also compatible with the games mentioned above, I also did a test and modified 4 more games: Green Beret (2 buttons) Screaming Wings (3 buttons) Shamus Case II (2 buttons) Twilight World (2 buttons) Everything is available on githubregards 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 Why the resistors ? And what values can you expect on the paddles ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Why the resistors ? And what values can you expect on the paddles ? It is to invert the values by pressing the buttons and make it compatible with the atari 2600 mod. Then 1 is not pressed and 228 is pressed. regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I remember someone patching Dropzone so you can play it with the two buttons on the Atari 7800 joystick. Regular control using space bar for smart bombs is odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 It is to invert the values by pressing the buttons and make it compatible with the atari 2600 mod. Then 1 is not pressed and 228 is pressed. regards I see. Good job ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I remember someone patching Dropzone so you can play it with the two buttons on the Atari 7800 joystick. Regular control using space bar for smart bombs is odd. Thanks for the information, I'll find it. I tried to make the modification but it did not work out as expected. This game has 2 functions one for the pumps and another for the protective layer. regards I see. Good job ! thanks, soon more modified games. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) Btw. I have found during my test with SEGA controllers, that there is typically transitional value in between 'off' and 'on' state. It's logical, the paddle sums the value over the whole frame, so if you press the button just before the paddle reset, you wont get 1. You get that next frame. So in my tests I treated any value different from the base value as 'pressed'. Have you encountered something like this ? Edited January 27, 2019 by R0ger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hello Gunnar I remember someone patching Dropzone so you can play it with the two buttons on the Atari 7800 joystick. Regular control using space bar for smart bombs is odd. Are you sure? IIRC, Sleepy and I once tried a 7800 joystick on either an XL or an XE (maybe on both) and we even opened one up. Pressing the two button was only detected on the trigger pin, not the potentiometer pins. We both came to the conclusion that the resistors inside the 7800 joysticks have the wrong value for the XL/XE to register if the buttons are pushed via the analog ports. Making it impossible to distinguish between the two buttons. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Btw. I have found during my test with SEGA controllers, that there is typically transitional value in between 'off' and 'on' state. It's logical, the paddle sums the value over the whole frame, so if you press the button just before the paddle reset, you wont get 1. You get that next frame. So in my tests I treated any value different from the base value as 'pressed'. Have you encountered something like this ? No, but which of all the new controls are you reviewing? I once tried the sega pad ascii with the Gem Drop game and gave the second button the value of 228 when pressed and 1 when not pressing it. but the scheme that I present is compatible with the Gem Drop game since it uses the same values. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) Multiple buttons could also be mapped using a matrix like on the keyboard controllers. I tried in the past to get a discussion going in a "standard" multi button joystick using mapping similar to the keyboards but no dice. If we could come up with a simple concept, easy to make with published schematics and also have someone make them (edladdin or somoeone) for those who prefer to buy something, then have the homebrewers utilize the new standard, we'd advance the state of the 2600 art. There are enough lines for a couple or three buttons, and a pot for throttle, for example. 4 joystick lines and the button can give a 3x2 matrix: 1 2 3 A B This would give 4 directions and two buttons. Add in the ground, and a 3x3 matrix would add three more buttons if desired (2-3 are enough, though) 1 2 3 A B G You still have the Pot lines for more features. I think a 2 button in a CX40 format would be enough for most games, with three buttons and a pot for an expanded arcade console controller would be great for more in game control. Think of the permutations. Edited January 28, 2019 by Zonie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) No, but which of all the new controls are you reviewing? I once tried the sega pad ascii with the Gem Drop game and gave the second button the value of 228 when pressed and 1 when not pressing it. but the scheme that I present is compatible with the Gem Drop game since it uses the same values. regards It was some cheap Chinese stuff. 3 buttons only. Don't remember the numbers. My code took the starting value as not pressed, and any change as pressed. I wanted to support both types of logic. High value for pressed and low value for pressed. But if it behaved same as you setup, it would be great, the logic would be simpler. Edited January 28, 2019 by R0ger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I like the 3 button joystick using the pot lines with resistors. It's well known, simple to implement in hardware and patches for a couple of games already exist. I've seen Bill Lange noodling around with the idea on twitter recently, and it seems simple to implement in software as well. Three buttons is more than enough for almost all games. Maybe this is one instance where the simplest idea is the best one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) I like the pot line method too, easiest to implement for a DIY due to the least amount of wiring changes, but R0ger's post caused me some concern that may need some testing. I offered the matrix as the Keyboard, VTP, and Kids Controller all use it, (they are all the same internally) and If I recall, the Kids games use it for direction control on some games? Good dialogue. Let's try to get a standard agreed upon that also works with a 7800. Attached are some renderings i I did a couple of years ago. I'm partial to C because it gives several additional options, but could be used in a Multi button CX40 or expanded with more features in an arcade console controller using the same wiring. http://atariage.com/forums/gallery/image/29843-atari-3-button-stick-options/ Edited January 29, 2019 by Zonie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lange Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) I've seen Bill Lange noodling around with the idea on twitter recently I saw that picture, and I thought to myself, I just built that same thing with the exact same components recently. Then I read the text... Edited January 29, 2019 by Bill Lange 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I'm partial to C because it gives several additional options, but could be used in a Multi button CX40 or expanded with more features in an arcade console controller using the same wiring. Do you have any BASIC/ASM code that demonstrates how to read C? All of the options shown in this thread so far are nice and simple from a hardware perspective, for beginners someone could even produce a tiny pcb with the correct pins labelled so anyone could build one. If no one patches existing games/writes new games that use the extra features, the idea is dead in the water. Creating a game that supports two different types of control schemes for those with/without extended joysticks is a barrier I'd like to see as low as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 It was some cheap Chinese stuff. 3 buttons only. Don't remember the numbers. My code took the starting value as not pressed, and any change as pressed. I wanted to support both types of logic. High value for pressed and low value for pressed. But if it behaved same as you setup, it would be great, the logic would be simpler. ok, I still buy clones of the cheapest but I did not have the problem you say. here a picture of mine cherries yours came out with failure. at the end use only the cable and build a better joystick. I personally believe that with 3 buttons this is fine and that it is simple to do for anyone who is not an expert in electronics. good I keep modifying games to use it with my joystick Airstrike II (2 buttons) Roxblox (2 buttons) Culmins (2 buttons) regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Do you have any BASIC/ASM code that demonstrates how to read C? All of the options shown in this thread so far are nice and simple from a hardware perspective, for beginners someone could even produce a tiny pcb with the correct pins labelled so anyone could build one. If no one patches existing games/writes new games that use the extra features, the idea is dead in the water. Creating a game that supports two different types of control schemes for those with/without extended joysticks is a barrier I'd like to see as low as possible. "C" as in option C on my schematic. Not the programming language. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 ok, I still buy clones of the cheapest but I did not have the problem you say. here a picture of mine cherries yours came out with failure. at the end use only the cable and build a better joystick. I personally believe that with 3 buttons this is fine and that it is simple to do for anyone who is not an expert in electronics. good I keep modifying games to use it with my joystick Airstrike II (2 buttons) Roxblox (2 buttons) Culmins (2 buttons) regards I had this one too. And it's certainly weird you don't have that issue. I won't be able to test it anytime soon, will report when it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 "C" as in option C on my schematic. Not the programming language. Yes, I understood that. Do you have any BASIC/ASM code that demonstrates how to read the inputs of option C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Yes, I understood that. Do you have any BASIC/ASM code that demonstrates how to read the inputs of option C No. I'm a hardware guy. If we had someone here who is interested in testing the inputs, I think this is a worthwhile exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 button joystick for the win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff3125 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 This may be way off but has anybody had a look at the 2600 Star Raiders controller? Does that work in any way at all with the computers? Anybody ever tried it with Star Raiders? Technically that's a 12 button device being polled through the joystick port. I know nothing about the inner workings but I'm very curious if this has ever been addressed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.