Risky Rick in Dangerous Traps (June 25th)

[Loafer]

8 minutes ago, 128Kgames said:

Elaborate please?

Come on man. Risky Rick is a clone of Rick Dangerous right?  So protecting a non-original and possible non-authorized copy of the game is crossing into a grey area for some.  Who knows, maybe the thing is licensed, not everything is shared with us.  At the end of the day, many cross over into non-licensed so I don't know why it would be worse just because it's protected.

 

I think the issue of DRM would not be such a big deal if the responses earlier on from the dev would have addressed it dead on instead of "I dunno we need to look into this further".  They must have known of the conditions that could make the game fall into demo mode.

 

@Ritchy:  I'm not a programmer so I suspect I'm missing the boat but can you state what condition did you come across during the development that you felt you HAD to have the requirement to ground pin13 that is not related to DRM?  Are you stating you came across a bug that necessitated you go with this solution so it's not related to DRM?  This would go some way to calming the crowd, at least relevant to the pin13 issue, not the ram check.

[Ritchy]

54 minutes ago, harlock76 said:

IMO Kevin does reverse engineering for so long he doesn't have anything to proove to him or to us and why would he gain to lie to us he fixes things what i don't like is that if a DRM has been implented and DENIED i have much more of a problem with that trusting the developpers

put a DRM in your games if you want but don't lie to us if you do please

It is so easy to proof that NO DRM: The game work without any hack on accurate emulators and FPGA based systems. That all.

You said like kevtris "we are lying", but... In fact, like most peoples here, it is not your problem, just your nolife on Internet.

[Loafer]

5 minutes ago, Ritchy said:

It is so easy to proof that NO DRM: The game work without any hack on accurate emulators and FPGA based systems. That all.

You said like kevtris "we are lying", but... In fact, like most peoples here, it is not your problem, just your nolife on Internet.

Well that makes no sense.  DRM exists on many games on modern consoles and they all play on original hardware.  The very nature of accurate emulation would mean DRM should work as advertised.  DRM doesn't mean you have to hack to play it on real hardware.  I do think we are getting hung up on the term DRM, I mean whatever was done, if it was done to mitigate someone making a backup, but somehow that is causing the game to run in demo mode on some systems.  That's the issue, that's it.

 

Not sure where you are going with this but it is not helping your cause

[Ritchy]

It is not what I have said...

[CPUWIZ]

21 minutes ago, Ritchy said:

It is so easy to proof that NO DRM: The game work without any hack on accurate emulators and FPGA based systems. That all.

You said like kevtris "we are lying", but... In fact, like most peoples here, it is not your problem, just your nolife on Internet.

 

I don't care if you are from France, you know what you said and I will ask you one question: "Are you trying to get yourself kicked out?".

 

Show some respect, punk.

 

[Loafer]

10 minutes ago, Ritchy said:

It is not what I have said...

Yeah it is.  I do understand there can be a language barrier here. I'm French Canadian, PM me what you mean then

[Albert]

Here's the email we received from Ritchy, stating that this post contained a "way to do illegal copy of Risky Rick" and for us to censor the forum.  I know this report (sent by a "Guest") is from Ritchy as the IP address matches the one he used to register his account.  By the time I saw this, the links to Kevin's blog were removed, but I restored them when I saw that no actual ROMs were posted, and that Kevin's blog was simply exploring the apparent copy protection built into the game. 

 

Obviously providing a link to an external blog exploring the technical nature of the game seems reasonable to me.  The request to close the topic was ignored, and asking that no other topics on this subject be created is also unreasonable.  Since then, Ritchy has reported two additional posts..

 

 

And this one:

 

 

 

Just wanted to let you guys know that "Ritchy" is trying to suppress the conversation here.

 

 ..Al

[Ritchy]

Just now, Loafer said:

Yeah it is.  I do understand there can be a language barrier here. I'm French Canadian, PM me what you mean then

Perfect so. Thank you, I will do that. (but it is currently 3:00AM here, and I would like to sleep first if possible)

[retroillucid]

15 minutes ago, Ritchy said:

Perfect so. Thank you, I will do that. (but it is currently 3:00AM here, and I would like to sleep first if possible)

Worst case, write here in French 
We're a bunch of French/Canadian here, we'll tanslate it to English 

[128Kgames]

17 hours ago, evg2000 said:

http://retrogamingmagazine.com/2018/06/16/rick-dangerous-homage-risky-rick-sees-colecovision-release-looming/

"Easter Egg had to work around copyright and trademarks, so some things are not quite the same as Core Design’s original. "

"As you can see from the screen shots above, the similarities are quite strong."

Ah, thanks man, much appreciated.  Had never heard of Rick Dangerous before, I didn't get into computers until about 1992.  

17 hours ago, Loafer said:

Come on man. Risky Rick is a clone of Rick Dangerous right?  So protecting a non-original and possible non-authorized copy of the game is crossing into a grey area for some.  Who knows, maybe the thing is licensed, not everything is shared with us.  At the end of the day, many cross over into non-licensed so I don't know why it would be worse just because it's protected.

Loafer, is it?  It's just a question man, that's all.  As I just replied to evg2000 I had never heard of Rick Dangerous before, and there is no mention of it being an homage or based on another game etc. in the initial announcement.  As far as protecting a "non-original and possible non-authorized copy of the game" you do realize what forum you're on, right?    I'm no programmer nor coder but when it comes to things like this its quite a slippery slope to walk, that much I can tell you. 

[MegaManFan]

Hey Ritchy, yeah I'm addressing you specifically -- I'm an accredited journalist. Be careful who you accuse of defamation. Unlike many people I actually know the legal standard for defamation and saying that someone on another forum behind the game has been censoring posts about DRM in the game doesn't meet that test. I never named you nor any person specifically, nor did I even name the forum I was referring to. I'm not even a member of that forum but the discussion and its removal was reported to me by several parties involved in this hornet's nest you continue to keep kicking. You're not doing anything but digging a deeper hole for yourself. Also if you're going to bring up standard jargon from my profession, I expect you'll use the word LIBEL next. I've got more bad news for you -- the truth is ALWAYS a defense to a false claim of libel. Kevtris and Crossbow have proven you are not to be taken at your word. It also appears that your product which contains DRM may itself be a violation of intellectual property. Notice I said "it appears" not "it is" because I am not impugning you are a THIEF, though some others in this thread may have their own opinions. Trying to get their posts censored (or mine) doesn't give you the appearance of innocence on any front.

Edited August 6, 2019 by MegaManFan
typo

[128Kgames]

What would really help is if the OP ArcadeVision would chime in and address this.  I can't speak to this whole yes there is DRM / no there isn't debacle, but I can say ArcadeVision did make good on my copy when the US Postal Service decided to use it as a flotation device before they delivered it (and forged my signature that I received it).  So I'm willing to hear that man out based on my past experience with him and let him tell his side of the story. 

[Loafer]

16 minutes ago, 128Kgames said:

Ah, thanks man, much appreciated.  Had never heard of Rick Dangerous before, I didn't get in computers until about 1992.  

Loafer, is it?  It's just a question man, that's all.  As I just replied to evg2000 I had never heard of Rick Dangerous before, and there is no mention of it being an homage or based on another game etc. in the initial announcement.  As far as protecting a "non-original and possible non-authorized copy of the game" you do realize what forum you're on, right?    I'm no programmer nor coder but when it comes to things like this its quite a slippery slope to walk, that much I can tell you. 

It's cool, no issues here.  My bad for assuming everyone knew about Rick Dangerous.  I totally get what site I'm on

[128Kgames]

4 minutes ago, Loafer said:

It's cool, no issues here.  My bad for assuming everyone knew about Rick Dangerous.  I totally get what site I'm on

Its all good man, always glad to dialog with new people. 

[MegaManFan]

Just in case anybody else is wondering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Dangerous has a synopsis.

[Loafer]

Someone once said there is no such thing as bad publicity.  Ironically, this soured subject makes me want to play Rick D... er Risky Rick even more on my upcoming Phoenix console.

 

Is there a special place in hell for guys like me?  ehehe  seriously, we can't forget that this game is an achievement in how it performs on a stock Colecovision. I sure hope that ArcadeVision would have a chat amongst themselves and realize they are going about it very wrong.  If I was them (and I'm not!) this is how they should have handled it, if my comprehension on the issues is correct.

 

1 - we worked hard on risky rick

2 - We don't believe what we did amounts to "DRM" but yes, we wanted to ensure legit people with legit colecovisions were playing this as we do not support playing this via a rom or multicart for now (explained later via MSX port coming)

3 - Any case that was brought up as an issue was resolved as far as we know

4 - perhaps we should have been more open about our programming techniques but it didn't seem wise to open the door to possible piracy of our hard work

5 - As it is, mea culpa and all that.  Lesson learned, our communication sucked, poor way of addressing it, we will do better

6 - So we ask the community:  Is there really an issue here? is anyone unable to play the game still that has not been offered a refund or a resolution to their issue? 

 

Bottom line: these guys are great at making games on the colecovision so maybe it's not such a crazy idea to let them breath a little and inform us (via a seasoned response by either Ritchy or ArcadeVision account).  It's never a bad idea to try and repair a relationship, give them a chance to fix this.

 

If they reply back that I'm nuts, well fuggedaboutit LOL

[MegaManFan]

7 minutes ago, Loafer said:

1 - we worked hard on risky rick

2 - We don't believe what we did amounts to "DRM" but yes, we wanted to ensure legit people with legit colecovisions were playing this as we do not support playing this via a rom or multicart for now (explained later via MSX port coming)

3 - Any case that was brought up as an issue was resolved as far as we know

4 - perhaps we should have been more open about our programming techniques but it didn't seem wise to open the door to possible piracy of our hard work

5 - As it is, mea culpa and all that.  Lesson learned, our communication sucked, poor way of addressing it, we will do better

6 - So we ask the community:  Is there really an issue here? is anyone unable to play the game still that has not been offered a refund or a resolution to their issue? 

Well said Loafer. If anybody, ANYBODY involved in the programming or production of Risky Rick had approached it this way, it wouldn't have become the tidal wave of trash that it did. There's still time for them to reverse course and say "Hey we were trying to protect our product, we just got overzealous, sorry." I have seen indie developers mea culpa before. Then again I also watch Jim Sterling and I know that a lot of developers double down rather than admit fault. That's another reason I'm well aware of what does and doesn't meet the standards for defamation - the dumbass lawsuit Jim was hit with over by Digital Homicide when they got their feelings hurt because he made fun of their game. They eventually had to pack up and give it up.

[CPUWIZ]

1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said:

Show some respect, punk.

 

 

I am gonna add one more thing, Kevin could code you into a corner, with his hands behind his back, whilst being blindfolded.

[retroillucid]

1 minute ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

I am gonna add one more thing, Kevin could code you into a corner, with his hands behind his back, whilst being blindfolded.

Not mentioning he's (one of ?) the first one to have coded homebrew game on Colecovision, Kevtris 

[Ruggers Customs]

A couple things I might add since I repair original colecos daily.

 

The two things that are starting to fail at a high rate are the 74541 Controller ICs and the 4116 Vram.  The 74541s can easily be replaced however finding replacement 4116s is next to impossible as NOS sources dried up some time ago.  So the 4516s (5v Vram) is really the only logical replacement.  The 5 volt ram upgrade isn't really a mod anymore at this point but a necessary modern replacement for failing original colecos.  I mean you technically could remove oem ram from another coleco but that's not really viable solution since there's a high chance they could just fail again.  

 

Eventually the NOS of 4516s will dry up and another method will have to be used (working on that as we speak).  I would advise in the future to code around any modern ic replacements if possible. Or at least be forthcoming with a workaround for systems that have had to be repaired with modern parts. 

 

As far as I know, Collectorvision and other companies do this.

 

Just some food for thought.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Ruggers Customs
Fixed a typo, sorry it's late :P

[mr_me]

4 hours ago, JT Cook said:

It seems odd that a developer who stole another company's IP has built DRM into their version(bootleg) of the game.

"Stole", "bootleg" are harsh words if the coding is all original.  There may be copyright infringement on the graphics and music, but that's the concern of the copyright holder.  Circumventing DRM, however, is criminal (with some exceptions).

[Swami]

5 minutes ago, mr_me said:

"Stole", "bootleg" are harsh words if the coding is all original.  There may be copyright infringement on the graphics and music, but that's the concern of the copyright holder.  Circumventing DRM, however, is criminal (with some exceptions).

According to ArcadeVision there is no DRM, so, apparently, that is not an issue to them.? It does make me wonder how they would classify what was upsetting them about what they thought kevtris was doing, then.

[Swami]

So, ArcadeVision seemed to dislike that I was trying to figure out why Risky Rick was giving me the dark start screen on two of my three ColecoVisions, rather than posting about gameplay on the one that worked. So, here is my review of the gameplay:

 

It is much easier than the Amiga version of Rick Dangerous. If you want an easier version, than it is a good port. Could it have been programmed with all the same enemies and obstacles/threats as the Amiga version? Perhaps, or perhaps the ColecoVision has limitation in sprites per line or something. Would you rather have a more difficult version with less graphical enhancement? I suppose it depends on if you want an easier or equally difficult version as the ColecoVision port. I guess I already have the Amiga version, so this easier version is okay to have as an alternative, I suppose. I think, perhaps, I would have preferred an equally challenging version with similar but originally implemented enemies/obstacles. As far as the quality experience, I would say it is similar in quality to Sydney Hunter and the Sacred Tribe. I would not go so far as to say it is better. I'm not sure I see where it is so great that it requires these extremes of cycle timing or whatever they claim makes it need some immaculate Colecovision that no other game, including Sydney Hunter ATST requires. I think the controls on the Colecovision version are somehow easier than on the Amiga as far as jumping sideways from a stop or fast shooting without jumping by mistake. I'd have to compare more. I suppose outside of my own experience, it is a good means of introduction for those not familiar with Rick Dangerous. End of Review.

 

Now, since I have also bought two copies of their game, maybe they can tell me why a pristine, stock Colecovision that has passed all of their grounding tests as well as those by Ikrananka involving pin 13 and 19 of the cart port, the pin 13 screw and pin 1 of the expansion port, always shows a dark screen the color of the start screen (not the demo version, as one would see will a grounding problem) , but plays fine on a third AV modded ColecoVision. I did ask them this before after explaining the above and checking all the grounding and at first was told it might be a bad cart, but I told them it worked on another console, so there was no problem with the cart. They said they had another console coming in and would tell me if they found anything that would help. I got told by them several weeks later that they had an AV modded console that had a poor soldering job creating a grounding problem and maybe this was my problem. Since this was not at all similar to my console, it seemed they were not taking me seriously and I ended correspondence. After the last few pages subsequent to kevtris's findings, I can't say I could trust them to get to the bottom of it. I don't need a refund, but I don't think it is too much to ask to want to know why it is only working on one of my three ColecoVisions when one of them is a pristine stock console that has passed all the grounding tests and is crashing at the start screen rather than going to the demo. If they don't have an answer, then, I think I should be free to check around on the forum and with others rather than to keep e-mailing them when they seem kind of flaky in correspondence and questionable in transparency. I've been in flaky correspondences before and it doesn't seem to get better.

[SegaSnatcher]

This turned out to be one of the most interesting threads in AA for sure.  Also, can't believe someone would question Kevtris's skills considering his track record.  That is quite ridiculous.  

Having said that, the game itself looks pretty decent, just too bad about the whole DRM issue, especially considering all the great homebrew releases without the need for DRM. 

I personally feel DRM has no place in the retro homebrew community and just on principal couldn't support something like this.  I would purchase a non DRM rom release though.

[Ritchy]

2 hours ago, Loafer said:

Someone once said there is no such thing as bad publicity.  Ironically, this soured subject makes me want to play Rick D... er Risky Rick even more on my upcoming Phoenix console. Is there a special place in hell for guys like me?  ehehe  seriously, we can't forget that this game is an achievement in how it performs on a stock Colecovision.

Thank you for your feedback. Sure, you will be able to play Risky Rick on the Phoenix console, no problem to run the game on it.

It is not our first try and we have always shared our games, tools and source code with everyone for free...

Just, it was not again the time for Risky Rick as the MSX version is on the way.

 

2 hours ago, Loafer said:

I sure hope that ArcadeVision would have a chat amongst themselves and realize they are going about it very wrong.  If I was them (and I'm not!) this is how they should have handled it, if my comprehension on the issues is correct. [...]

Why, ArcadeVision or I will have to said that? Sincerelly, I do not understand why we will have to change the thruth to match with what you would like to ear.

We have refunt and exchanged or resent games, box, posters, ... to all peoples having any issue and asking for that. After that, only two guys with defective consoles that not run the game ask to hack our work without contacting us. Hey! It was offered to fix console on my free time (but shipping was too expensives) or to refund the game, despite the fact they was informed they should have problems before ordering.

 

Sure, we worked hard during years on Risky Rick and was really proud to provide the more technical level never reached on a 32K stock game for the ColecoVision.

We does many months of tests with french, spain, US and CA peoples. And at end, we known that our game was really fun and with a great replay value, so we have added the online HALL OF FAMES for the best of you can won glory and goodies. Because some months before the end of the development we have encountered strange "yellows" sprites  and "no sound" with our custom optimised player on AtariMax (used to dev the game), we have switched to our own cartridge prototype to continue to work. At end, we have added some basic memory checks to guarantee that no bug and no cheat will be at the party. About the pin13, it is just because the ROM circuit is 4x32K with 2 dipswitches on the prototype board, to allow us to set the 32K 50/60Hz FULL GAME when the compiled ROM not fail in size (>32K), else to allow us to set only the current TEST LEVEL for 50/60Hz. On the final PCB, only the 50/60Hz switch was kept to set the good game region (as seen on the Swamy PCB picture). The poor cartridge dumper design do not have the pin13 linked and the test ROM is read instead... Nice no DRM system with nothing clever except a messy pinout. It is why I'm disapointed about kevtris do not contact us instead of thinking he his free to do what he wants with the work of others and saying we are lying is a public insult.

 

2 hours ago, Loafer said:

Bottom line: these guys are great at making games on the colecovision so maybe it's not such a crazy idea to let them breath a little and inform us (via a seasoned response by either Ritchy or ArcadeVision account).  It's never a bad idea to try and repair a relationship, give them a chance to fix this.

I'm sorry to said that Risky Rick II was cancelled last year, since this topic turned wrong against our work and peoples prefered to not trust us. We are no more interrested to make ColecoVision games when so few peoples send feedbacks about their game experience and many more about this minor issue. I have only registered here during my vacation to try to explan that was not what you have though... Be free to continue to think what you want, I know that is not with a bunch of posts that I can change anything.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Ritchy