Level42 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Hey I'm trying to get into FujiConvert now I have found out about the basics of SIDE3.... What format(s) does FujiConvert require ? I noticed it (very sadly) doesn't accept M4A's which is Apple's lossless standard format.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Hmmmm, I downloaded a few files made by others and apart from seeming to load, I end up with a blue screen (of death?) and the red SIDE3 LED on.... I converted a WAV file myself. Despite selecting STEREO the convert puts out the file with the PDM (Mono) extension, that might be good to change ? Changed the extension manually, still same result.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Well, for PDM soundfiles converted with FujiConvert there is currently only one extender (no matter if mono or stereo): *.PDM. The AVG cart. and Xuel's PDM player only accepts .PDM - does SIDE-3 accept something different ? We have made suggestions for PDM headers or extenders (e.g. PDM = mono, PDS = stereo), but afaik FujiConvert has not been changed yet (and Xuel's PDM player also has not been changed yet, not sure about FJC's PDM player, since I do not own an SIDE-3). For me, FujiConvert worked well with MP3 and WAV, have not used any other formats for converting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said: does SIDE-3 accept something different ? Yes: described in the manual. The extender is my only means if discerning the file format (stereo and mono POKEY and COVOX PDM files). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: Yes: described in the manual. The extender is my only means if discerning the file format (stereo and mono POKEY and COVOX PDM files). See, that’s what you get when you read manuals….. I know this stuff ! ??? Doesn’t fix my issue of nothing actually playing though. I do understand correctly that SIDE3 loader plays the files without any additional program required right ? is there maybe a test PDM file which should “always” work ? Edited July 18, 2021 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Well, I don't have SIDE3 and I don't have the manual for SIDE3. Could you be so kind and tell me which extenders SIDE3 accepts for PDM files ? Maybe @Xuel would be interested as well and update his FujiConvert and (AVG) PDM player accordingly ? (Maybe he also does not own an SIDE3 and SIDE3 manual.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Level42 said: I do understand correctly that SIDE3 loader plays the files without any additional program required right ? Correct. The player is built into the loader. It first creates a map of all the sectors in the file and then plays it. There's not much scope for a hard crash, unless the file is absurdly large and some range checking failed. If you send me the file or simply upload it here, it would certainly aid with testing and debugging should there be a problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said: I don't have SIDE3 and I don't have the manual for SIDE3. https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side3/ See documentation and table of contents for relevant section. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Haha, did not find an SIDE3 manual with my first try (only a quick guide) and did not think that the U1MB/Incognito firmware manual also describes the SIDE3. But now I found the information I wanted. Evil me, I spread it here: extenders/filetypes for SIDE3: (some Google fun) PDM = 44khz mono PDM files (Google says: Product Data Management) PDS = 22khz stereo PDM files (Google says: Party of Democratic Socialism) COV = 44khz mono Covox files (Google says: Covid / CoV-2) COS = 22khz stereo Covox files (Google says: COntemporary Style, Cosinus function) Since FujiConvert only uses PDM as extender, you have to manually rename from PDM to the extender you want/need. Hopefully @Xuel will also use these extenders in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said: ... From that trenchant panoply of sarcasm, I deduce that I should change the filename of the User Manual to include the SIDE cartridges too (done). As to the rest: I have long advocated a proper, generally-agreed media file format which might have metadata in the file header. This would enable us to no longer rely on three-letter filename extenders and the necessity to rename the files produced by FujiConvert. This hurdle, coupled with the necessity of locating the manual and jumping to the hyperlinked PDM section in the table of contents, obviously presents an exhausting challenge, likely to leave the user suffering from PMS (Pulse-Modulated Stereo). Edited July 19, 2021 by flashjazzcat 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, flashjazzcat said: Correct. The player is built into the loader. It first creates a map of all the sectors in the file and then plays it. There's not much scope for a hard crash, unless the file is absurdly large and some range checking failed. If you send me the file or simply upload it here, it would certainly aid with testing and debugging should there be a problem. Well I downloaded two files, one was the first one you uploaded here Jon, the other was this one: https://atariage.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=576420 Here is the one I converted myself: 01. You To Me Are Everything Bruiloft Peet en Dré edit pdm14 stereo 22305Hz ide ntsc.pds Edited July 19, 2021 by Level42 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Level42 said: Well I downloaded two files Thanks! They both play fine here, so I need some more information for troubleshooting purposes. What is the geometry of the host FAT partition (so: FAT16 or FAT32, and the cluster size in KB)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Hmmm, length should not really be a problem. The longest and largest sound I have converted so far is from the Atari Jaguar "Hoverstrike U.L." CD. It contains approx. four instrumental audio tracks, one of them being 14 minutes long. The second longest music is from Meatloaf "IWDAFL (BIWDT)" with a length of 12 minutes or so. But I am using a cluster size of 32k, FAT32 and AVG cart. - not SIDE3. Regarding stereo, I do have some old 60s music (e.g. The Mamas and the Papas "CD"), where one channel is music and background vocals and the other channel is main vocals. When I convert this to mono, both channels play the same - but ermmm, when I convert this to stereo both channels still (again) play the same. The separation like in the original recording does not seem to work or I am doing something wrong. (Beware, the record companies sooner or later may notice what is going on here and sue because of these un-licensed "high quality" music conversions. Use abbreviations for the music title whenever possible, e.g. YTMAE. Okay, not really sure if this makes any difference.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 46 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said: length should not really be a problem. Hmmm, well it shouldn't be a problem, since I happen to cache the absolute sector numbers of every single cluster in the file in consecutive SRAM banks on the SIDE3 cartridge. Note @Level42 is using SIDE3, however, not AVG. 49 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said: Beware, the record companies sooner or later may notice what is going on here and sue because of these un-licensed "high quality" music conversions. Since I once received an immediate copyright claim on shaky hand-held footage of 'Money for Nothing' streaming via Avery's 50 FPS SIDE video player at 80x100 pixels or so with low bitrate audio, anything is possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 17 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: Since I once received an immediate copyright claim on shaky hand-held footage of 'Money for Nothing' streaming via Avery's 50 FPS SIDE video player at 80x100 pixels or so with low bitrate audio, anything is possible. I own the original 12" vinyl record. OK, I Remixed the stuff on it a bit for our wedding ceremony....but it's still the same music. In The Netherlands I'm entitled to make back-ups for my own use of music that I legally own. In fact, a part of the price of media like SD cards include a contribution to BUMA-STEMRA, the organization that controls copyrights here. Anyway.... FAT32 (formatted on iMac using Disk Manager). The SD card is an old Sandisk 4GB but works absolutely fine with games, demo's etc. I have no idea about what cluster size OSX formats FAT32 with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, Level42 said: I have no idea about what cluster size OSX formats FAT32 with... As with any OS, the default cluster size will depend on the volume size. I see nothing unmanageable about anything you've described, though. I fail to understand at this point how a hard crash can occur with working hardware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I’ve already ordered a fresh 64GB SanDisk micro SD card that should be delivered tomorrow….maybe there’s something there….if not, I wanted a new one anyway…..maybe ven faster I will make a video about the loading proces….maybe that’s helpful. I can also make pics of all my U1MB and SIDE 3 settings….no idea if those could matter…. Did you run the music I converted myself on a PAL machine ? Because I did convert it with NTSC selected, but I have no clue what this setting does for audio (except maybe playing faster or slower ?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Level42 said: Did you run the music I converted myself on a PAL machine? PAL, yes. The difference in CPU speed between PAL and NTSC isn't especially significant, and since all NMIs are disabled during playback and IO speed is constant, I'm not entirely sure what difference the PAL/NTSC setting makes either. Settings should make no difference at all. Even if you fed the PDM player a file full of absolute garbage, all you should get is noise and an amplitude graphic on the screen. About the only thing would could cause a crash might be a bug in the code which sets up the jog bar at the bottom of the screen (press SPACE to pause and right/left arrows to fast forward/rewind). Video might help; I guess it can't hurt. Edited July 19, 2021 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) Side Loader is 0.39, that's the latest right ? Here's the video....ignore the flickering, there's none in reality (60Hz) IMG_4849.m4v Edited July 19, 2021 by Level42 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 We're on v.0.40 now, but it probably shouldn't make any difference to PDM playback. It built the sector list successfully and then hung up somehow. No idea why, since I haven't been able to replicate the issue and can see no obvious culprit in the source code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Level42 said: Side Loader is 0.39, that's the latest right ? Here's the video....ignore the flickering, there's none in reality (60Hz) Can you replicate this with a different Atari and the same cartridge? Edited July 19, 2021 by ivop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 minute ago, ivop said: Can replicate this with a different Atari and the same cartridge? PDM playback doesn't require U1MB or extended memory ? If so, then yes I have some other machines here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: We're on v.0.40 now Can't keep up with your pace of updating LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Level42 said: PDM playback doesn't require U1MB or extended memory? No: it'll work on a 48K Atari. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said: No: it'll work on a 48K Atari. Okidoki…. Sorry my 130XE was the first I could grab…. Regretfully (or not) it shows exactly the same behaviour…. IMG_5200.MOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.