a8isa1 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) In Altirra I learned that PDM files 12 MB sized or smaller will play fine. Files 13 MB or larger will play only as static. This is true for SIDE 2 emulation. It may be true for The!Cart emulation but I only tried one large file on The!Cart and heard only the static. If I truncate a large file to 12MB the shortened file will also play (from Side 2). I don't own either of these cartridges so I cannot test them on real hardware. I assume this is the issue that Xuel has discussed. Edited June 6, 2018 by a8isa1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 In Altirra I learned that PDM files 12 MB sized or smaller will play fine. Files 13 MB or larger will play only as static. This is true for SIDE 2 emulation. It may be true for The!Cart emulation but I only tried one large file on The!Cart and heard only the static. If I truncate a large file to 12MB the shortened file will also play (from Side 2). I don't own either of these cartridges so I cannot test them on real hardware. I assume this is the issue that Xuel has discussed.d Ran out of time to modify my post. Sorry, I must have done something wrong when converting a file for The!Cart usage. I tried again and it worked fine. Not sure how long the PDM data is but the original song is 11:59 in length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaPa Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 So... I download some .pdm file and then WHAT? I don't know anything about SIDE/SIDE2.. how it works, what it needs etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 So... I download some .pdm file and then WHAT? I don't know anything about SIDE/SIDE2.. how it works, what it needs etc. your Side/Side2 will be using a CFcard ? if so, remove CFcard, connect to your pc copy FJC's pdmplayer to the FAT/FAT32 partition on your CFcard do the same for any .PDM files you create from audio track re-insert into Side/Side2 and play via pdm.xex via XEXLoader on your Atari8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaPa Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 your Side/Side2 will be using a CFcard ? if so, remove CFcard, connect to your pc copy FJC's pdmplayer to the FAT/FAT32 partition on your CFcard do the same for any .PDM files you create from audio track re-insert into Side/Side2 and play via pdm.xex via XEXLoader on your Atari8 Thanks, but I wanted to know how to play it in Altirra emulator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuel Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 So... I download some .pdm file and then WHAT? I don't know anything about SIDE/SIDE2.. how it works, what it needs etc. See flashjazzcat's instructions here. To create a VHD file you can use Windows -> Start -> Disk Management -> Create VHD To put files on the VHD use Windows -> Start -> Disk Management -> Attach VHD. This should add a drive letter that you can open in Explorer like any other disk. Drag PDM.XEX and the *.PDM files to this disk. Then you have to eject or Detach VHD. Then you can attach the VHD to Altirra with System -> Configure System... -> Devices -> SIDE 2 -> Add... -> Hard disk -> File... In Altirra, make sure you *disable* System -> Console Switches -> Enable Cart SDX. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaPa Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 OK.. now I§m able to load something and play it, but all I hear is noise... tried official Altirra 3.0 and Altirra 3.10 test 28 (with timings like on real hw) and in both versions your edit in debugger but nothing helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 well thanks to Jon [FJC] and Xuel, i now have this working on both real and virtual hardware! respect to both, and mega thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Hello Xuel Have you fixed the noise problem CharlieChaplin described yet? If not, please do so as soon as possible. PLEASE!!! Sincerely Mathy (who's trying to be patient, but not having a lot of succes...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 OK.. now I§m able to load something and play it, but all I hear is noise... tried official Altirra 3.0 and Altirra 3.10 test 28 (with timings like on real hw) and in both versions your edit in debugger but nothing helps. Try one these two of brenski's shorter files http://atariage.com/forums/topic/279232-fujiconvert-01/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4042381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuel Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 Hello Xuel Have you fixed the noise problem CharlieChaplin described yet? If not, please do so as soon as possible. PLEASE!!! Sincerely Mathy (who's trying to be patient, but not having a lot of succes...) Fixed in FujiConvert 0.2.1. Change log here. Loop at end of audio Support for XEGS cartridges Simple dither 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Ran a 44KHz chirp through the converter targeting 8KHz, and it looks like both Chrome and Edge are using pretty bad resampling filters -- no low pass filtering, sine wave frequency sweep gives textbook aliasing. Quick web search suggests they are doing linear interpolation. Firefox does a better job and appears to have a proper downsampling filter, but it also fails to convert from 44KHz to 8KHz entirely, throwing an Operation not supported error when creating the OfflineAudioContext. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 at some point in the 1970/80s most classic rock artists dabbled in a little bit of a reggae vibe - some much less than others (Rush/Jefferson Starship) - merely a few bars of the bridge. seems. seems that the time used in the Caribbean recording albums certainly "rubbed off" on some., here's a few of my faves: Brenski's Unlikely Rock Reggae Mix brenski's unlikely rock reggae mix pcm4+4 mono 44270Hz ide pal.zip Eagles/Zeppelin/Costello/Rush/Clash/Scorpions/Animals/Travelling Wilburys/Jefferson Starship/3 Dog Night/Joe Walsh/Paul McCartney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuel Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) Ran a 44KHz chirp through the converter targeting 8KHz, and it looks like both Chrome and Edge are using pretty bad resampling filters -- no low pass filtering, sine wave frequency sweep gives textbook aliasing. Quick web search suggests they are doing linear interpolation. Firefox does a better job and appears to have a proper downsampling filter, but it also fails to convert from 44KHz to 8KHz entirely, throwing an Operation not supported error when creating the OfflineAudioContext. Ugh. Thanks for testing! Looks like some have proposed adding a resampling-method option to WebAudio (example issue thread) but so far the decision has been to leave it up to the individual browser. Looks like the WebAudio spec also states that browsers must support at least 8000Hz to 96000Hz sample rates. FujiConvert's 8kHz rate is actually two scanlines so comes in at 7800Hz or 7860Hz, just under the supported range. I'll look into adding explicit sinc resampling code to FujiConvert. Edited June 7, 2018 by Xuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) Fixed in FujiConvert 0.2.1. Change log here. Loop at end of audio Support for XEGS cartridges Simple dither Works great now! Alas, 1MB is not much for 8Bit 44khz mono or 22khz stereo sounds. So now I would like to see bigger carts (atarimax, Megacart, XEGS) and cart emulation (e.g. with the Ultimate Cart.) to become reality. 16MB or more would be nice... "All you have to do is dream..." Edited June 7, 2018 by CharlieChaplin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Why design ever bigger carts just for this purpose when you have IDE devices currently available which can handle 128GB disks? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Why design ever bigger carts just for this purpose when you have IDE devices currently available which can handle 128GB disks? I agree that HDD like devices (IDE, CF, SD, USB Stick) are best way to go as we head down this path. Imagine if the iPod had required flashing a severely limited memory footprint device when downloading music, I doubt it would have been very successful. Even cooler still would be on-the-fly MP3 to PDM conversion from a FAT directory, although the current PDM player that Jon made is pretty darn good, and likely the most practical approach due to hardware limitations/CPU speed. Feature Request for PDM Player: ESC key to allow exiting a currently playing song and go back to the main menu (also exits/deactivates shuffle mode -- see below). CTRL+Right/Left Arrow key to skip to NEXT, or go back to PREVIOUS song in directory. The order of which could either be by a numeric PDM file name and/or alphabetical order. CTRL+S = enable 'shuffle' mode playback (random automatically load & play songs in directory) On a side note; I notice that many of the PDM files have an ever so slight background 'crackle' when playing quiet passages. Is this to be expected? Perhaps a limitation of the available dynamic range? Also thinking that perhaps some additional hardware audio filtering might help things out . 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I'll keep these suggestions in mind for the PDM player. I've done barely anything to it for weeks. It's certainly far from being completed software. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) Kyle, I have an Incognito also but Jon's PDM.xex will not find any content. Have you tried to run it yet. Sadly, I have not been able to try it yet. The fan on my laptop died so I can only turn it on for a few minutes. That's not long enough to transfer files to the Atari. Edit: fix typo. Edited June 7, 2018 by Kyle22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 The PDM player doesn't work on the Incognito. Results with cartridge based playback were so poor on the 800 that I didn't bother, but I can produce a suitable player if it's needed for testing... some time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Hello Jon Would be nice if that player would be ready by the time the Fujiama 2018 starts. And it should be able to use the Ultimate Cart. Not sure what the biggest SD card is, that the Ultimate Cart can handle. But at the moment I'm using it with a 16GB card. They should be enough (for now). Sincerely Mathy PS ever considered coming to the Fujiama? Shuiming Lai visited the location way back when the meeting was called "Unconventional". He seemed to like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) Hello Xuel Fixed in FujiConvert 0.2.1. Change log here. Loop at end of audio Support for XEGS cartridges Simple dither THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!! Sincerely Mathy Edited June 7, 2018 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Unfortunately the Ultimate Cart provides no direct access to the SD card, but I have the PDM player (standard SIDE version) working here just fine with a custom UNO Cart firmware. I'll see what I can do regarding player refinements, although I have many things competing for my time and the player is not open source, since it is essentially my SIDE XEX loader. As for Fujiyama: I'd love to, but I just don't have the bus fare right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Hello Jon Re: Ultimate Cart: Not even with a firmware rewrite? (I'm not saying that YOU should do that!) Will there be a player for the AVG cart? Re: Fujiama: Maybe next year? Next year the Fujiama will last for a whole week! Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Hello Xuel Just tried FujiConvert 0.2.1. At first I thought I had done something wrong. But if you press the space bar when asked to press any key, the sample won't play until you hit the space bar again. Oops. And could you please add the option to choose between "start over" and "stop" when the end of the sample is reached? Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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