Intellivision Entertainment launching a NEW Intellivision console

[Jim Pez]

I would not mind paying $150 to $200 for this if it has all the games from the 80's. That would be a lot cheaper than having to buy an new flashback every year like people do with the 8 Atari flashbacks plus the Activision one. Some time this year people will be shelling out even more money for a new flashback that has just a few games that weren't on last years model.

Edited June 4, 2018 by jim1174

[mr_me]

... Any game that will run on this thing will be able to be placed into the Playstation or Xbox stores. With far, FAR greater market visibility.

...

According to Tommy T, all games will be exclusive to the system. They better come up with some compelling games and the sooner they have that after launch the better. And they can't depend on third party developers, they have to do it themselves. As it's already been said, it won't be easy and probably a longshot.

 

 

No idea if they are planning to do this, but it would be pretty cool if they modified some of the 2 player Intellivision games to be playable over the internet.

No need to modify the original code to do this. MameHub can do this right now with Intellivision and it is surprisingly responsive. The only problem is the MameHub Intellivision emulator doesn't support analog input so you are stuck with 8-way controls. And Mame has an old bug with NASL Soccer. Nostalgia has this feature too but it crashes when you try to use it.

 

--------------

Edit:

"Exclusive to the system," huh? That's the magic pixie dust?

 

You know, "exclusive to the system" sometimes means "can't afford to license brands, so we'll make our own stuff." Just ask Mattel Electronics. They had plenty of games which were exclusive to the system, yet the Atari still outsold it 10:1.

 

Also, you know what else is exclusive to the system? A few home-brews like Christmas Carol, Hotel Bunny, and Piggy Bank. I don't see those moving any Intellivision units now...

 

-dZ.

Mattel made hundreds of millions of dollars with Intellivision, they were very successfull. Then they lost hundreds of millions but Atari lost even more. You couldn't play Intellivision sports games on the VCS and that's why many people bought Intellivisions. As you know the number of people interested in classic Intellivision games today number in the hundreds. And anyone can play Christmas Carol on their computer, they don't need an Intellivision.

 

And exclusive doesn't mean they can't have brands from other systems' games. It means the games based on those brands have to be exclusive. But I don't see that happening at launch.

Edited June 4, 2018 by mr_me

[+DZ-Jay]

"Exclusive to the system," huh? That's the magic pixie dust?

 

You know, "exclusive to the system" sometimes means "can't afford to license brands, so we'll make our own stuff." Just ask Mattel Electronics. They had plenty of games which were exclusive to the system, yet the Atari still outsold it 10:1.

 

Also, you know what else is exclusive to the system? A few home-brews like Christmas Carol, Hotel Bunny, and Piggy Bank. I don't see those moving any Intellivision units now...

 

-dZ.

[Jim Pez]

 

Well you could play international soccer, super challenge baseball, super challenge football.

[mr_me]

Well you could play international soccer, super challenge baseball, super challenge football.

Not in 1980-81. Still, in those days the hardware between systems were so different, it was hard to transfer the same experience. Now you can have pretty much the identical game on different platforms, source code is portable. Edited June 4, 2018 by mr_me

[+DZ-Jay]

Edit:

Mattel made hundreds of millions of dollars with Intellivision, they were very successfull. Then they lost hundreds of millions but Atari lost even more. You couldn't play Intellivision sports games on the VCS and that's why many people bought Intellivisions. As you know the number of people interested in classic Intellivision games today number in the hundreds. And anyone can play Christmas Carol on their computer, they don't need an Intellivision.

 

And exclusive doesn't mean they can't have brands from other systems' games. It means the games based on those brands have to be exclusive. But I don't see that happening at launch.

 

Mattel was very successful during a time when video-games were new and the only competitor was Atari. They were blazing the path along with the rest of the industry. The Intellivision was the second biggest console, but all things considered, it was a very, very distant second.

 

Mattel knew even then that they needed brand licensing, and they tried; their competitors beat them to it, or they were too cheap at first to pay the asking price. The few licenses they got (outside the world of sports) were second and third tier arcade or movie franchises, which got them barely anywhere.

 

All in all, Mattel sold about 3 million Intellivision units -- it sounds like a lot in the days of a home-brew top seller moving 300 units, but it's not really. Not compared to Atari, who sold three times as many VCS units by 1982, probably the peak year of the Intellivision. (And for comparison to the giant in nostalgia-driven marketshare, lest there be any question as to why it keeps getting all the attention; the Nintendo Entertainment System sold over 60 million units worldwide. Those are real, market-moving numbers.)

 

All that to say that the Intellivision has barely any mindshare in the mainstream, and rightfully so -- in the big scheme of things, it's an obscure artefact from the past that only a precious few were acquainted with. Intellivision Entertainment cannot rely on brand recognition alone if they want to break into the mainstream, and hitting the casual gamer is a very ambitious and perilous gambit.

 

-dZ.

Edited June 4, 2018 by DZ-Jay

[+DZ-Jay]

And exclusive doesn't mean they can't have brands from other systems' games. It means the games based on those brands have to be exclusive. But I don't see that happening at launch.

 

That is true, and I also do not see it happening at launch for many reasons already posted previously. I only challenged "exclusivity" because you brought it up as a response to someone suggesting it would be hard to compete with the established players, when any popular game is already on their platforms.

 

-dZ.

Edited June 4, 2018 by DZ-Jay

[mr_me]

Intellivision Entertainment would be happy being a distant fourth; and nobody is claiming they have brand recognition.

 

Edit:

 

..I only challenged "exclusivity" because you brought it up as a response to someone suggesting it would be hard to compete with the established players, when any popular game is already on their platforms.

 

-dZ.

No. I mentioned exclusivity because it was suggested the new games on this system can be made available on other systems. And that people might not be aware that Tommy T advised that won't be the case and the games on his system will be exclusive. Edited June 4, 2018 by mr_me

[+DZ-Jay]

Intellivision Entertainment would be happy being a distant fourth; and nobody is claiming they have brand recognition.

 

I'm sure they would be happy to be a distant fourth. Unfortunately, it may come to be that the cost of maintaining that position cannot sustain a business model. Past experiences and plenty of other similar experiments suggest that the video game business is a cut-throat maelström and that only the big fish survive.

 

As for the brand recognition, well I am guessing they are counting on it, otherwise what is the point of calling something "Intellivision" if you accept that nobody has heard of it before? The same with the "Atari" or "Commodore 64" names peppered around on various offerings of dubious value.

 

-dZ.

[freewheel]

No. I mentioned exclusivity because it was suggested the new games on this system can be made available on other systems. And that people might not be aware that Tommy T advised that won't be the case and the games on his system will be exclusive.

 

Exclusivity is a tricky thing. This isn't 1980 where landing the license for Space Invaders means you can move consoles like mad.

 

If you're a game developer with a killer idea - and I'll focus just on consoles here - you can write and release your game for the Playstation 4 (70+ million customers), Xbone (35+ million), or Switch (probably 20 million and growing rapidly). Or you can choose to dedicate your time and resources to ... an Intellivision. Where a million units sold, let's be honest, would be an unbelievable success. But these will be 2D, indie, family-friendly games, you say! That would have worked 10 years ago, when you'd never see something so "basic" released for the big 3. But today? They all have their app stores, with small/indie developers making a lot of fun games. Basically any game you can imagine, you can write for any of the existing consoles. And sell it to a far bigger market. Now, it's possible that the IE folks will manage to hire developers who create some incredible first party titles. And they may just stumble upon the next Minecraft or similar. But the odds are stacked massively against them.

 

The only way this works is to somehow carve out a unique market space. Some way to make this a "must have" console. Exclusivity isn't the path to success here. Nor is "a game so easy your grandma can play". Those exist. In spades. On many, many platforms. Those moved the Wii because of its gimmick. And phones because everyone already has a phone.

 

Granted - it's VERY early days here. Clearly there's more to their plans than just "make some modern Mario clones and hope for the best". I know nothing other than what's been announced, which is very little so far. So I'm not giving up on this nor trying to shit on it. Far from it. I've just not heard anything other than this being another Ouya. I really hope there's something to come that I can get excited about. I absolutely love the idea of a "second tier" of cheaper, more accessible consoles. If this and the Ataribox can somehow carve out a niche, I'd be absolutely thrilled!

[+nurmix]

1) Why have an new/updated Intellivision console now?

2) Will this new console squelch any future INTV FB systems with AtGames?

3) Come October, will we have a production ready console at that time, or just a prototype iteration of some kind?

4) What is the price range of this new console? I imagine the $100 to $150 range, but curious.

 

I know that these questions will probably get answered at some point in time, but I know Intellivision has tried to do things the right way for a long time know, and I hope that it continues to be the case with this new venture.

 

1) Something like this has been talked about within Intellivision Productions for several years now. Tommy Tallarico and I have also talked about it, along with Keith, Emily and others (we've both been friends with everyone at Intellivision Productions for years). When the AT Games / Flashback 2 plans were put on hold, it was again being discussed, but there were a number of legal/business issues that had to be sorted out with the company after Keith's passing. Now that things are settled, and the schedules of everyone lined up, the time has come.

 

2) I don't have a definitive answer about a Flashback 2, but it's safe to say this new console will be the primary focus of the company for the foreseeable future.

 

3) We will not have a production ready console in October. At that time you will learn about the specs, and get to see the console design, the controllers, and hopefully some game play.

 

4) Others have chimed in, and Tommy has already stated "well under $200", so it's safe to assume it will be north of $100 and south of $180.

 

 

 

Can't wait for the new Math Fun!

 

Hmm....

 

 

 

It's just Tommy Tallarico talking. Sounds like it will play original games, support homebrew, blah blah. Idk, what's the point with these? Just play the original hardware.

 

I was there too, although yes, Tommy did most of the talking.

 

The point is to do something new and big with the brand (which, as I mentioned, Keith Robinson wanted to do for YEARS), and to simultaneously embrace the history and legacy of the original, by including as many of the original games as we can legally include, and to allow developers to make games for either the 'legacy' side or the new side, or both (or something in between).

 

 

 

I'm not thrilled on seeing updated version of old games. Keep them all the same, but add options for an expanded world or more levels. Think Sea-Battle with a new map! Or Triple Action's bi-plane battle with an aerial refueling challenge stage.

 

As far as controllers go. I'd like to see a touchpad done modern-style, like an iPhone. This would allow for awesome on-demand overlays being sent to the controller. And it wouldn't cost much to replace the crappy old firebuttons and disc with versions made from modern materials and engineering. Something to increase reliability and tactile response.

 

Best of old school and new school!

 

Updating / expanding the original games will be doable, since as I mentioned above developers can make games for either side.

 

Touch pad you say?

[+nurmix]

I heard talk about an SD card slot, but they also mentioned they don't want people to be able to illegally download roms and put them on the system, This would imply that it will be a closed system and the only way to put games on it would be via their website after purchase. So that would imply you would have to buy all the games again! That's not something I'm prepared to do at this point. In the meantime, I'll be happy enough with my Ultimate Intellivision Flashback where I can put all the games on it along with homebrews!

 

We haven't finalized the SD card decision. Sure, ideally you'd be able to load the ROMs you own. But if we try to secure a license from Disney to do a new TRON, and include the original TRON games, we would have a tough time making that deal if they see that everyone is already loading illegal versions onto the console.

 

 

 

I simply don't get it. No cart slot? Like the Atari VCS, what market will this thing have? Casuals game on tablets now, they don't want consoles. Like the Atari, a prerequisite is that you must first have heard of the Intellivision, and second, want this. How can you run a business venture on that? For all the flack the Retro VGS got, even if MK had produced actual working prototypes, still had the BIG issue re: who will buy it??? They couldn't even sell the INTV/COL flashbacks.

 

As for INTV fans wanting an updated system, great. But again, you can't operate a business on that, not without charging $200-$300 to cover your costs, because those fans just aren't numerous enough.

 

A cartridge slot add-on is definitely possible. But the added cost of including one when only a very small percentage of users would care is cost prohibitive. Believe me, I'd love one too, but upping the cost of the console $10 because you include one (not to mention the added cost of design / development / manufacturing / testing) just isn't practical for what we're trying to do.

 

 

 

That's why I say one of few paths to relevance for this thing is delivering a sand box for making your own retro games in an approachable way that ties in some social aspect for sharing and building upon. They might even consider tying it in with lego mindstorms, or a competitor, or one of the many STEM robotics or Snap-circuit type setups that came out of MIT. 30 year old tech has the benefit of being a basic platform for learning and forming the basis of exploration leading into more modern applications.

 

Excellent ideas. We are looking into things like that too.

 

 

 

FPGA isn't an answer here either. It has its own baggage. Though most techies would have you believe otherwise. Note that every FPGA console/implementation I have seen to date is either:

 

1- limited production, especially those one-off proof-of-concept projects.

2- highly niche and updatable by only 1 developer.

3- comes in strange formfactors that don't accept all cartridge styles.

4- is highly technical, like, or almost like, a development board kit.

5- is commonly mistaken for exact chip replacement or recreation.

6- rather expensive for solutions that ARE currently available.

7- still limited in functionality.

 

And don't forget is possible to migrate emulators across many platforms, and even developers - often in the process creating a development team. Many emulators are now 20+ years old!

 

So if this new Intellivision product is based on emulation don't get upset about it.

 

The legacy side will be based on emulation, correct. You cited all the reasons why FPGA isn't practical for this project.

 

 

 

I don't know how or if this thing will be succesfull; but it will have nothing to do with nostalgia. The people they will be marketing to, as it is now, likely would never had heard of Intellivision. To them, gen2 Shark Shark and Night Stalker won't be remakes of old games, they will just be games. I don't expect the focus on the new games to be remakes anyway. I expect the target audience to include seniors, looking for something simple, and parents to keep their young children occupied.

 

A couple of years ago, the cable repair guy was over at the house. He looked to be about my age. He saw my Intellivision and said "that's some remote control you have there". He had no idea what it was. There's only a very narrow demographic that might have any chance of remembering Intellivision. That may be enough to make a quick buck with a cheeply made unit. But these guys are shooting for something more. I don't need a cheap emulation box, I can play all the Intellivision games on my computer with an original Intellivision controller. It's nice to see that they are at least trying to do something different, even if it doesn't succeed.

 

The basic idea (for the remade Intellivision games) is keep the game play of the original, but update the graphics, sounds, add some additional elements, and allow multi-player on the couch or online.

 

And just a few additional things. New games will be priced under $10 (most likely in the $3 to $7 range), and the console will come with 7-10 NEW games. It will also come with as many of the original games as can legally be included. Ideally, we will try to get them all. But for those that aren't included, but we're able to license later, you'll be able to get them in the online store. And those games will be cheaper than the new games (perhaps there will be bundles where you buy the NEW version, you get the old one free, or something like that).

 

And any games you download will be saved to your console - most likely removable SD storage. And the console won't have to always be connected to the Internet to play your games.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention... there will be no micro-transactions / nickel and diming "in game purchases" or paid DLC on the system.

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by nurmix

[MrBeefy]

I'm liking the sound if this so far can't wait to see more info as it comes out.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

The point is to do something new and big with the brand (which, as I mentioned, Keith Robinson wanted to do for YEARS), and to simultaneously embrace the history and legacy of the original, by including as many of the original games as we can legally include, and to allow developers to make games for either the 'legacy' side or the new side, or both (or something in between).

 

This is the best answer in my opinion. I believe the success of this project includes the following elements:

1. Leverage the brand to maximize potential market via nostalgia (Hey look, a new Intellivision...finally!)

2. Retain enough classic elements as to not soil or neglect said brand/nostalgia (Gold and woodgrain!? Comparable graphics and gameplay!? A new twist of that classic controller!?)

3. Offer something new to transcend the existing niches of original consoles, Flashbacks, and emulation (Lots of new original games and upgrades/sequels at affordable prices? I'm in!)

 

If you guys can find the balance, this will do well. Personally, I'd buy this solely for the new games. I'm hoping for 2/3 new/original titles that are comparable to the old classics (a new racing game, a new dungeon crawler, who knows...), but also maybe 1/3 sequels and upgrades (1-player Utopia, 4-Player online Snafu, Air Strike, Night Stalker 2, Shark Shark 2, Frog Bog 2, etc). And sure, make a new controller, but make the games compatible with the original controllers. Also, compatibility with the original ROMs would be great for those who already have them. For those who don't, you could sell them as a bundle for like $10 . Not bad for like 60 old school games.

Edited June 5, 2018 by JasonlikesINTV

[+nurmix]

This is the best answer in my opinion. I believe the success of this project includes the following elements:

1. Leverage the brand to maximize potential market via nostalgia (Hey look, a new Intellivision...finally!)

2. Retain enough classic elements as to not soil or neglect said brand/nostalgia (Gold and woodgrain!? Comparable graphics and gameplay!? A new twist of that classic controller!?)

3. Offer something new to transcend the existing niches of original consoles, Flashbacks, and emulation (Lots of new original games and upgrades/sequels at affordable prices? I'm in!)

 

If you guys can find the balance, this will do well. Personally, I'd buy this solely for the new games. I'm hoping for 2/3 new/original titles that are comparable to the old classics (a new racing game, a new dungeon crawler, who knows...), but also maybe 1/3 sequels and upgrades (1-player Utopia, 4-Player online Snafu, Air Strike, Night Stalker 2, Shark Shark 2, Frog Bog 2, etc). And sure, make a new controller, but make the games compatible with the original controllers. Also, compatibility with the original ROMs would be great for those who already have them. For those who don't, you could sell them as a bundle for like $10 . Not bad for like 60 old school games.

You're definitely getting the idea, Jason; seeing the big picture, and why we think the possibilities have so much potential, and why we aren't just a rehash of Ouya.

 

And by the way.. YES, it sounds weird to me to be saying "WE" when I discuss this.. being a recent official part of the company. But I assure you, I'm not trying to sound pretentious. I'm still the same wise-cracking Intellivision fan / podcast guy who tried to get Cmart to spend more money on my Flashback adapter cables at CGE 2014 by invoking his 'variant response' - pointing out the variety of different colors he can get.

 

Anyway... I'll bring up 'original / Flashback' controller compatibility in the next meeting. Can't promise anything, but if it doesn't pan out, I think you'll like what we're working on for the new controller.

 

We're still talking system colors / design, but if there are any graphic design artists here who want to mock up some console ideas, have at it! We've had several contact us already, and have internal ideas, but we want to consider all possibilities before making a decision.

 

 

 

Sent from my Keyboard Component using Jack's Conversational Intelli-talk cassette

[Rev]

Intellivision III console render.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/245871-sketch-up-renders-of-inty-iii-and-intellivoice-ii/

[Jim Pez]

The touch pad idea is cool. They did it with the Nintendo Ds version of intellivision lives.

[+cmart604]

Intellivision III console render.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/245871-sketch-up-renders-of-inty-iii-and-intellivoice-ii/

Sexy AF

[mr_me]

...

 

If you're a game developer with a killer idea - and I'll focus just on consoles here - you can write and release your game for the Playstation 4 (70+ million customers), Xbone (35+ million), or Switch (probably 20 million and growing rapidly). Or you can choose to dedicate your time and resources to ... an Intellivision. Where a million units sold, let's be honest, would be an unbelievable success. But these will be 2D, indie, family-friendly games, you say! That would have worked 10 years ago, when you'd never see something so "basic" released for the big 3. But today? They all have their app stores, with small/indie developers making a lot of fun games. Basically any game you can imagine, you can write for any of the existing consoles. And sell it to a far bigger market. Now, it's possible that the IE folks will manage to hire developers who create some incredible first party titles. And they may just stumble upon the next Minecraft or similar. But the odds are stacked massively against them.

 

The only way this works is to somehow carve out a unique market space. Some way to make this a "must have" console. Exclusivity isn't the path to success here. Nor is "a game so easy your grandma can play". Those exist. In spades. On many, many platforms. Those moved the Wii because of its gimmick. And phones because everyone already has a phone.

 

...

They must be going after the 50% of households that don't have an xbox/playstation/nintendo, or at least a fraction of it. Tommy T has mentioned the Wii as an example. I hope the Wii wasn't just a gimmick. If you look at the top selling video games of all time three of the top ten are Wii games: Wii Sports, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, and Wii Play is #14. He also mentioned that people don't play games with their wife/husband, grand-kids, sons/daughters, or siblings with their phones/tablets; maybe they don't want to; but they must be thinking multiplayer games. Again, they better come up with good games people want to buy. Like Freewheel says, it won't be easy. And they can't depend on third party developers, that will come later, if they can sell a million units.

[+intvsteve]

Having a really good game development SDK will be key - not only for writing those initial in-house games, but attracting those third-party developers. That means that those in-house game developers will really be carrying an extra burden - not only creating some kick-ass titles but also keeping an eye on how much effort is expended fighting the development tools and processes and ensuring that the SDK is approachable and flexible. Those kind of bootstrapping projects pose unique challenges and require a lot of discipline to pull off successfully.

 

Not being a gaming software developer, maybe these struggles have been mostly knocked out. With things like Unity and other game development engines out there, perhaps the bootstrapping process won't be quite as exhausting. One can hope.

[Hwlngmad]

Thanks for answering all of my questions. I really appreciate it. Definitely I am liking this project more and more. I wish you and Intellivision the best of luck. I will definitely be following the development of this console and look forward to what October will bring.

 

1) Something like this has been talked about within Intellivision Productions for several years now. Tommy Tallarico and I have also talked about it, along with Keith, Emily and others (we've both been friends with everyone at Intellivision Productions for years). When the AT Games / Flashback 2 plans were put on hold, it was again being discussed, but there were a number of legal/business issues that had to be sorted out with the company after Keith's passing. Now that things are settled, and the schedules of everyone lined up, the time has come.

 

2) I don't have a definitive answer about a Flashback 2, but it's safe to say this new console will be the primary focus of the company for the foreseeable future.

 

3) We will not have a production ready console in October. At that time you will learn about the specs, and get to see the console design, the controllers, and hopefully some game play.

 

4) Others have chimed in, and Tommy has already stated "well under $200", so it's safe to assume it will be north of $100 and south of $180.

[+nurmix]

...With things like Unity and other game development engines out there, perhaps the bootstrapping process won't be quite as exhausting.

 

Indeed, something to take into account.

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

I like to see your reimagining of many games along with the originals such as bomb squad. Maybe, or working version of a easy to use development tool akin to how game factory was supposed to work. Just a few of my ideas right now hopefully some will be taking into account.

[Jim Pez]

Maybe they can release some of the unreleased games from the 80's. There are about 25 unreleased games and 26 unfinished games.

[freewheel]

The point is to do something new and big with the brand (which, as I mentioned, Keith Robinson wanted to do for YEARS), and to simultaneously embrace the history and legacy of the original, by including as many of the original games as we can legally include, and to allow developers to make games for either the 'legacy' side or the new side, or both (or something in between).

 

...

 

Updating / expanding the original games will be doable, since as I mentioned above developers can make games for either side.

 

 

You have my interest

 

THIS is definitely something that no one's done. Not even attempted or hinted at. Retail space or otherwise. A way to get NEW games for OLD architectures - in an actual, functional, non-raspberry-pi-hackery type way. Sure, people can somewhat faithfully recreate the 8-bit look on virtually anything nowadays. But no one really does it "well". They invariably go too far, and make the games look like what they are - a far more modern game that's skinned to look oldschool.

 

So we have a split - if you want something on consistent hardware with modern outputs, you get these passable fakes. And if you want something that truly could have existed in a retro setting, you're stuck with hard-to-find fragile hardware, finicky emulation, and a whole lot of work to get going. There's never been a plug-and-play system that works worth a damn that has anything new on it (beyond unreleased prototypes like Starfox 2 and the like).

 

As someone who's been into the retrogame/emulation scene for over 2 decades, I'm more than capable of the work necessary to play Intellivision/Atari/NES/whatever on my modern TV. But I honestly don't bother. I'd rather plug in my (S)NES Classic because it's so bloody simple and "just works". Yet I've always craved the ability to easily load up modern, legal homebrew onto them.

 

Just please please please include save states and a rewind option in the emulator. That's something sorely missing from too many of these devices. Nintendo really nailed the emulation enhancement side of things, without making it feel like "not an (S)NES". It's a big part of why their units were so successful, at least to gamers like myself.