Ms. Pac-man

[mark]

Is there some sort of pattern to this game or secret? I see there are many people in the Twin Gallaxies scoreboard scores are WAY up there. I can get only 80,xxx tops.

 

Is there something im missing or is it the gamers ability to avoid the ghosts?

[NE146]

I've always wondered that myself. My high score is easily 130-140k and I played the 2600 version a LOT. But the thing is, once you get past the Banana stage, the red ghost is just so friggin fast that even though he may not be chasing you directly (and yes he does chase you occasionally), you WILL eventually get run over by him purely due to his speed. So it's amazing that they were able to score that high

[Nukey Shay]

Not really...if you notice, the monsters always try to group towards your player (unlike the arcade game, where the game's IA attempts to judge where your character WILL be). You can use this to "guide" them away from the area you are trying to clear. And you should try not to clear consecutive corridors, but move frequently from one area to another on the corner of the screen...turning wherever possible (since turning is a bit faster). The oddly-shaped escape tunnels in the "Jr." stages are especially helpful.

[moycon]

I just select the Teddy Bear game.

[ATARI TROLL]

and your Atari playing name is RADAR right? jk

[AtariDude]

my understanding is that unlike PacMan that has specific patterns that can be learned and followed to get perfect scores (like Billy Mitchell did), Ms. Pac Man does not have specific patterns and tends to be more randomized. I can only assume that they have learned general strategies to use to get the scores that they do.

[RCorcoran]

If I'm not mistaken, there is another thread about VCS Ms. Pacman. In that thread, I discuss general stratagies for the game and review ghost behaviours. To this day, I have not found a "pattern" that works 100% on each board. I do have techniques I use for each board (as does Todd Rogers) and they seem to work well. Yes, the ghosts do try to corral you. The only "secrets" (and I wouldn't even call them secrets) I can share is use the tunnels, clear the boards by quadrants and in small chunks. I use this strategy when I play, and, so far, it seems to work...

[NE146]

my understanding is that unlike PacMan that has specific patterns that can be learned and followed to get perfect scores (like Billy Mitchell did), Ms. Pac Man does not have specific patterns and tends to be more randomized. I can only assume that they have learned general strategies to use to get the scores that they do.

 

True, but don't get confused between "pattern" talk when discussing Arcade Pacman/MsPacman and the 2600 version. What you're talking about is the arcade versions. The original Pacman had patterns, MsPacman didn't (actually the red/pink ghosts are randomized, the blue and brown ghosts still have patterns based on your movement). Billy Mitchell of course played the arcade version. And from what I hear, he didn't rely on patterns. Which is understandable. Anyone who's played arcade Pacman through the past 20 years obviously has a few patterns under their belt but can still play freeform just as well.. And in MsPacman of course you have no choice but to play freeform:)

 

However in the 2600 version.. pretty much all pattern bets are off i.m.o. 2600 Pacman has some "general" patterns you can follow to get you pretty far through a maze depending on the game variation. But the herky jerky movement and the ghost timing (esp after getting eaten), pacman's speed, and a bunch of other little factors like the lack of long corridors pretty much take away any EXACT pattern you can utilize for the majority of the maze. (patterns do work for the very beginning of each maze though).

 

2600 MsPacman doesn't have any patterns just like the arcade. Nukey perhaps you misunderstood me by the way, my point was even if the Red Ghost meandered 100% aimlessly, I was saying that EVENTUALLY you WILL be in his direct path and thus caught. It's his speed that's the issue that makes it difficult. Actually I misreported my high score. It's about 210-250,000 now that I remember. But my point remains that once you're past the banana stage, sooner or later you're going to be in the path of the red ghost.

 

As far as whether the Red Ghost does chase you, from what I can tell is that he does so but only when he's pretty much right next to you. Usually he will tend towards your quadrant (actually sometimes he doesn't) but doesn't tail you directly unless he gets right in front of you. I don't know but it seems like when that happens, it doesn't matter what turn you take, the Red ghost will take it too right on your tail. Then about the 4th or 5th turn, he will finally stray away. I don't know if it's coincidence or he really is "chasing" Mspac, but it happens frequently enough in the later stages for me to suspect there is some sort of chasing a.i. in there.. except it doesn't last

[Room 34]

Actually, I was under the impression that the original arcade Pac-Man did have AI and not fixed patterns... it was just that if you followed a set pattern, the ghosts would, in turn, always respond the same way, so that made it possible to work out a particular pattern where you'd avoid all of the ghosts every time and clear the maze.

 

Am I right, or way off?

[NE146]

Actually, I was under the impression that the original arcade Pac-Man did have AI and not fixed patterns... it was just that if you followed a set pattern, the ghosts would, in turn, always respond the same way, so that made it possible to work out a particular pattern where you'd avoid all of the ghosts every time and clear the maze.

 

Am I right, or way off?

 

Yes you are right. The ghosts don't move in a preset movement. Rather they always react in the same way depending on the moves you do.. which is how it's possible to 'develop' a good working pattern.

[MegaManFan]

But that's "predictable" in it's own right, which is how it's possible to develop maze patterns in the first place. If there was true randomness to their movements, Ken Uston would never have been able to write "Mastering Pac-Man" at all. In fact, it's precisely because they are so predictable that Namco released the "fast chip" variation not long after everyone had figured out the slow, but most people quickly caught on that it just skipped a few boards and the patterns were still the same.

[Room 34]

I'm not saying it's random at all. What I'm saying is that it is based upon the movements you make as the player, not completely fixed.

[MegaManFan]

Fair enough. BTW where's the new avatar from? It looks like some demented Neo Geo game (which of course makes me want to play it). And I'm glad I'm not the only one who quotes Comic Book Guy. "Werst.. episode.. EVER!"

[Nukey Shay]

I guess the question is how random is the 2600 version and how is that randomness "seeded". I would guess that it's got something to do with the amount of cycles spent on the title screen before play is initiated. With the 6502, nothing is really "random".

[Room 34]

BTW where's the new avatar from?

 

It is from an INSANE Taito arcade game called "Turn It Around!!" (yes, with two exclamation points).

 

It's beyond description... but I tried:

 

My "Can of Worms" article about "Turn It Around!!"

[Nukey Shay]

What kind of bizarre twisted wreck of a game is that? Something to try to curb ADD...or try to be the cause of it?

[Room 34]

It is a pure mystery. I... somehow... stumbled upon Taito's site promoting it a few months ago, and was just DUMBFOUNDED. I had to write about it.

[MegaManFan]

There's actually a pretty deep history behind "Camel Try," one of the games you mentioned being included in "Turn it Around." (The reason for the name is that you're supposed to picture rolling a ball over the curved humps of a camel's back.) It was renamed "On the Ball" for a US release on the SNES, and it's a lot of fun to play.

[Room 34]

I have a feeling all (or most) of the 20 rounds in Turn It Around!! were actually their own individual games before this... it's kind of like a "greatest hits" machine. Just a guess. But I KNOW at least ONE of the rounds is a rehash -- Arkanoid!

[PacManPlus]

The arcade games:

 

1) Pac-Man - the first 6 or 7 seconds (before the first reversal) finds all four monsters heading for their respective corners, regardless of where the player is going. Two or three more times during the board you'll get a reversal, and the monsters will again head back to their respective corners for another 6 or 7 seconds (except in the later rounds where blinky, the red one, kind of 'ignores' the command to go to his corner and chases you relentlessly). This '6 or 7 second' repreive gets shorter at the apple stage where it's now 4 or 5 seconds.

 

2) Ms.Pac-Man - You get the same first 6 or 7 seconds as Pac-Man, BUT, the pink and red monsters move 'randomly' regardless of your direction. The gold and teal monsters still move to their corners. The major difference between Ms.Pac and Pac from this point forward is that when a reverals occurs, the mosters still chase you, and there is no 'second reversal' 6 or 7 seconds later. (This still happens 2-3 times per board).

 

3) Pac-Man Plus - The first board is the same difficulty as the 'Peach' board on Pac-Man, but with the speed of the 'Apple' board. After the first board, it is pretty much 'Apple' type boards until the '9th key' equivalent (I don't remember off-hand which board that is)...

 

Hope this helps...

[RCorcoran]

MsPacman didn't (actually the red/pink ghosts are randomized, the blue and brown ghosts still have patterns based on your movement). Billy Mitchell of course played the arcade version. And from what I hear, he didn't rely on patterns.

 

Two points:

 

a. Actually, yes, you can execute patterns in Arcade Ms. Pacman. Chris Ayra, the current Ms. Pacman WR holder and Victor Kunisada, the current Turbo Ms. Pacman WR holder both use patterns as well as behaviours in their gameplay. While I'm not a 900k level player, I am in the 600k (Turbo) and 489k (Normal) range and can state that you do execute a pattern (with variation due to ghost behaviour) in Ms. Pacman Arcade.

 

b. Bill Mitchell absolutely does use a pattern for Pacman Arcade. I have the tape of his 6 hour, perfect game, and he is very methodical in his approach and pattern. It's actually quite humurous to hear him talk himself thru his pattern.

[RCorcoran]

Here is a current listing of the top Ms. Pacman (VCS) players acording to Twin Galaxies records. If you want to submit your score, you MUST play with all 4 ghosts and the game must be videotaped.

 

1 2,654,680 Ron Corcoran

2 2,596,930 Todd Rogers

3 290,090 Chris Parsley

4 241,730 Mark Feldt

5 173,410 Robert Mruczek

6 155,730 Alan Hewston

7 146,380 Natalie Purawec

8 107,680 John Marks

9 104,180 Mike Rupprecht

10 102,080 Tom Chang

11 84,130 Jim Zawada

12 82,910 Stephen Krogman

13 73,160 Joshua Warren

14 71,130 Carlos Marrero

15 67,290 Stephen Knox

16 59,520 Robert Macauley

17 55,330 Shane Monroe

18 47,860 Scott Bolderson

19 43,530 Brien King

20 5,130 Andrew Wagner

[PacManPlus]

Just curious here...

 

How can you execute a pattern on a machine where the monsters move somewhat randomly for the first 6 seconds? What happens if one is right in your path? Wouldn't the fact that you would have to vary your movement depending on where the monsters are (instead of the other way around) theoretically mean you are not using a pattern? Please understand; I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but someone is using a pattern on Ms.Pac-Man, I would have to see that to believe it.

 

My highest score on turbo Ms.Pac-Man is also around 600K, and normal Ms.Pac-Man is around 250K (most of the time my mistakes are getting too greedy with the blue monsters) and I have yet to use any kind of pattern. I play by knowing how the monsters 'react' to my movements.

[RCorcoran]

Bob:

 

As you may or may not know, I am not one to get easily offended. We are all here because we love Atari and gaming in general.

 

I don't dispute what you're saying. The Ghosts in either Pac-type game do not have predetermined "patterns", rather, they have a set behaviour AI they follow. Brien King and I watch Victor play Ms. Pacman almost every weekend here at Castles & Coasters here in Phoenix, AZ. He rarely scores below 850k. While what he does may not be considered a "pattern" from a purist prespective, it is, to an extent, pattern-like behaviour that he executes to manipulate the ghosts and force them to move in a fashion that he desires. In other words, Victor moves in precisely the same way to produce the desired result, ergo a pattern (loosly translated). Granted, he cannot run a defineable "path" each and every board, as you can in Pacman, as the ghosts do move with their own behaviour logic. You can, however, manipulate them into a set behaviour and then exploit that, as he does consistantly. Thru watching Victor, I have been able to improve my gameplay from the 450k range to 689k. Brien has gone from an 80k player to ~250k. It's really all about manipulating the ghosts and taking advantage of their behaviour. Again, we are speaking of Arcade Ms. Pacman and NOT VCS Ms. Pacman. Two completely different games.

[Nukey Shay]

Have people been able to use these types of partially-improvised patterns in the VCS version? (not the exact same ones, of course). I think that was the original question...whether or not the randomness "seed" value dynamically changes.

Or is the entire game played completely defensively?