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I must be behind the times.  I thought it was going to be a Display Port connector from the PCB to the back of the TI...

 

410103591_DisplayPort.jpg.697de8324f0e050a1c1825a63d7e4a7e.jpg

 

... using a Display Port to HDMI converter cable to the monitor...

 

1945564291_DisplayPortToHDMI.jpg.f54a4200ebb2acd27ece4efcf6fbdd56.jpg

 

Hmmm... decisions...

 

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Looking at the two you specified, they look like they were designed to support specific devices (or device families). The pin-out difference may be a function of that use case--one you could probably verify by testing two different vendor cables designed to support a single device family.

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37 minutes ago, --- Ω --- said:

I must be behind the times.  I thought it was going to be a Display Port connector from the PCB to the back of the TI...

 

See post #312:

 

@Ksarul

They are for specific devices, but that is how it is going to be for all of the FPC video adapters.  However, they are all designed to convert one type of HDMI connector to another, so the FPC signals have to carry all of (or most of) the 19 signals, power, and ground that are part of the physical connector specification.  There is nothing device-specific about the converters per-se, the only problem is that the different manufacturers of these adapters are using a different arrangement of the 19 signals.

 

This is not a problem for the video, since ultimately the correct input signals have to go the correct output signals, which they do.  The problem is, the MK2 is essentially replacing one of the header-boards at one end of the cable, so I have to be aware of how the HDMI to FPC mapping was done for that specific cable.  It would be nice if they just went HDMI pin-1 to FPC pin-1, pin-2 to pin-2, etc. but they do not.

 

The truly alternate solution that I proposed in my post #312 above, it to make my own DVI header and people will just have to use an adapter.  However, in this case at least it would be a passive cable (DVI to HDMI) since the signaling is backwards compatible.  Also, a lot of these FPC adapters do not have any kind of mounting flanges on the connectors, or holes in the PCB, which will make it hard for people to mount in their systems.  However, DVI headers tend to always have mounting flanges like VGA headers.

 

@GDMike

No worries, I understand what you are saying. 🙂

 

 

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@--- Ω ---

To add more context, DP was a consideration for a short time.  However, once I looked into it I quickly realized it is very different from anything else, and *very* complicated.  It also has a minimum requirement of at least one 1.3GHz channel (or something close IIRC), and an FPGA with the hardware serializers required to do that are more money and do not come in a package I need for the physical constraints of the MK2 (a DIP-40 board is not very big: 17mm x 52mm, and only 15mm between the PCB pins).

 

I also found out that DP is a licensed technology, and the connectors are hard to source, especially the small ones.  HDMI is currently winning the battle of being the ubiquitous connector, probably because most of the manufacturers involved in inventing it are making TVs and other media devices.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, matthew180 said:

So I bought a few FPC adapters for reference:

 

1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D9FJNR9

2. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078J16HP9

 

Hi Matthew, 

 

I would prefer the second link for the "Short Flat Slim Thin HDMI FFC FPV HDMI Cable Standard HDMI Female Plug to Standard HDMI Male 90 Degree Compatible with RED blackmagic BMCC Sony FS7 Canon C300 Black 10cm" I already bought one a few weeks ago :) 

 

seeya

 

Joe

 

Edited by a2dconverter

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Posted (edited)
On 7/21/2019 at 11:58 PM, matthew180 said:

 

The truly alternate solution that I proposed in my post #312 above, it to make my own DVI header and people will just have to use an adapter.  However, in this case at least it would be a passive cable (DVI to HDMI) since the signaling is backwards compatible.  Also, a lot of these FPC adapters do not have any kind of mounting flanges on the connectors, or holes in the PCB, which will make it hard for people to mount in their systems.  However, DVI headers tend to always have mounting flanges like VGA headers.

 

Perhaps this would make it easier as everyone would be using the same header supplied by yourself (so no mix up with different FPC adapters) and as you say these have mounting connectors which solves the other problem.

Edited by G4DDS
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@G4DDS

That is pretty much what I have been thinking.  I will probably follow the pin-out from one of the commercial adapters, so that will be an option for people who want to fuss with buying the correct 3rd party adapter.  Otherwise a DVI to HDMI cable will be required.  I'm also trying to devise a way to offer a VGA header over the same cable, but I'm not sure if I can make that work.

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On 6/27/2018 at 12:43 PM, FarmerPotato said:
I am excited that not only are we getting F18As, but a ton of unexpected bonuses too!

 

 

 

 

I pledged to buy 5 of them to boost the order, I'm still going to. I use my good F18A console for everything.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope we can share good solutions to mounting an HDMI port on the plastic.

 

Also am planning on two or three

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4 hours ago, GDMike said:

Also am planning on two or three

At least!

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55 minutes ago, matthew180 said:

Closer!

 

Oh the madness!.. The anticipation is killing me!  i'm in for 2 or 3 a well!

 

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Routing is complete for the FPC connector modification, all DRC errors resolved, silk-screen fussing done.  I need to add the DVI header board, then I can order a prototype PCB from OSHpark, assemble, and test.

f18a_mk2_fpc1.thumb.jpg.4e1747263ea0c5a505becf8822b0d64c.jpgf18a_mk2_fpc2.thumb.jpg.8e49d13b1d02e2c2765d93c7eeab8bea.jpgf18a_mk2_fpc3.thumb.jpg.4583d025d8ca8675ebc3e12c2dc41a03.jpg

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Good news and great work! Thank you Matthew.

I preorder one F18A MK2.

Edited by Sid1968
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Its gorgeous..I can't explain how much I want this, oh, not yet till it's done! Haha...Matt, my hat is off to you! No one pulled this off but you did! Thank you in advance.

On 6/27/2018 at 12:43 PM, FarmerPotato said:
I am excited that not only are we getting F18As, but a ton of unexpected bonuses too!

 

 

 

 

I pledged to buy 5 of them to boost the order, I'm still going to. I use my good F18A console for everything.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope we can share good solutions to mounting an HDMI port on the plastic.

 

 

Edited by GDMike

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3 hours ago, Sid1968 said:

Good news and great work! Thank you Matthew.

I preorder one F18A MK2.

Matt, when you write your book on what made you do this I want the first copy signed please. This is such a feat

Edited by GDMike

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5 hours ago, matthew180 said:

Routing is complete for the FPC connector modification, all DRC errors resolved, silk-screen fussing done.  I need to add the DVI header board, then I can order a prototype PCB from OSHpark, assemble, and test.

f18a_mk2_fpc1.thumb.jpg.4e1747263ea0c5a505becf8822b0d64c.jpgf18a_mk2_fpc2.thumb.jpg.8e49d13b1d02e2c2765d93c7eeab8bea.jpgf18a_mk2_fpc3.thumb.jpg.4583d025d8ca8675ebc3e12c2dc41a03.jpg

 

This is so beautiful.

 

 

I appreciate the silkscreen-- dnotq.com, the lightcycle...

 

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I have a question though... where does the audio get injected?  Am I missing it on the PCB or will it be part of the external cable?

Are 1,2,3,4 solder pads to deal with the extra video memory?

 

1213597931_F18A-MK2TS2.thumb.png.91e74602c3923aa5596748346eea8b00.png

CLICK ON IMAGE TO ENLARGE

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3 hours ago, GDMike said:

Matt, when you write your book on what made you do this I want the first copy signed please. This is such a feat

 

I would like to write a book (I think), but I can't figure out how to get more than 24-hours in a day yet. ;-)  In the mean time, my not-updated-in-forever website has some posts on the F18A including why I started the project:

 

http://codehackcreate.com/archives/30

 

Might hold you over until the book comes out. 😁

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2 hours ago, --- Ω --- said:

I have a question though... where does the audio get injected?  Am I missing it on the PCB or will it be part of the external cable?

Are 1,2,3,4 solder pads to deal with the extra video memory?

 

Audio-in is pin 1.  There is just not enough silk-screen room to label it and have the pin-1 indicator (which I decided is more important).  It will be documented.  I'm also entertaining the idea of having pin-1 be a receptacle PCB-pin to help making connecting the audio-in easier, but that idea is still rattling around in my head.  Unfortunately there is not room for a real audio header, so the audio-in will have to be a wire that the user connects; either by soldering or a friction connection.  Suggestions are welcome.

 

The 1 2 3 4 labels on the left are indicators for the dip-switches, which are rendered as the single large white rectangle in the image (the model of the part is pretty minimal).  These are the equivalent to the jumpers on the original F18A, although there will be some changes to what they do (I don't like incompatible changes, but unfortunately it is necessary).  Two of them will continue to be virtual scan-lines and the default number of sprites on a line (4 or 32).  The other two will be changing and it will be documented.

 

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6 minutes ago, matthew180 said:

 

Audio-in is pin 1.  There is just not enough silk-screen room to label it and have the pin-1 indicator (which I decided is more important).  It will be documented.  I'm also entertaining the idea of having pin-1 be a receptacle PCB-pin to help making connecting the audio-in easier, but that idea is still rattling around in my head.  Unfortunately there is not room for a real audio header, so the audio-in will have to be a wire that the user connects; either by soldering or a friction connection.  Suggestions are welcome.

 

The 1 2 3 4 labels on the left are indicators for the dip-switches, which are rendered as the single large white rectangle in the image (the model of the part is pretty minimal).  These are the equivalent to the jumpers on the original F18A, although there will be some changes to what they do (I don't like incompatible changes, but unfortunately it is necessary).  Two of them will continue to be virtual scan-lines and the default number of sprites on a line (4 or 32).  The other two will be changing and it will be documented.

 

 

For the audio line, why not do what many adapter/expansion boards of the 80's & 90's did.  That is, have a wire with a test lead attached & instructions to connect the lead to pin x of chip y.

s-l1600.jpg

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I thought about that, except the extra wire will be the responsibility of the user.  You can get them with clips on both ends.  They don't make the best connection, but it is easy for people without a means to solder the wire.

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