1050 drive issue

[+Nezgar]

I believe there are some later versions of DOS 2.X that added DD support. 2.6 and 2.8. Also there is HappyDOS, but imdon’t See much about it, so I assume there are reasons it isn’t used much.

 

Happy Warp DOS is a modified version of DOS 2.0S that loads in a high-speed SIO handler at the expense of some free RAM. Theres various ways to load the module and some documentation on the Happy disks.

 

Re DOS 2.6's and 2.8's - probably best to stay away from those... 2.6 is a hack that will make ED disks that are incompatible with 2.5, or a leaked predecessor of 2.0S

 

According to: https://www.atariarchives.org/creativeatari/Atari_DOS.php

 

"Fortunately, most of the DOS 1 disks have disappeared, leaving users with an improved operating system which has eliminated many of the bugs. Alas, while Atari was working on the bugs, they "released" several preliminary DOS 2 versions, called DOS 2.4, 2.5, 2.8, and 2.S, all of which have bugs in them. Don't use them."

 

And another according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_DOS#FMS

 

"DOS 2.6 - Someone in the Atari hacker community modified DOS 2.0 to add a few features and allow the use of dual density disk drives, with the "look and feel" of DOS 2.0. One new feature added was "RADIX", which one could use to translate hexadecimal numbers to base 10 or base 10 to hex."

[BillC]

 

I'm probably not the person to make a comment like this but... DOS 2.x is not DoubleDensity compatible period (I'm not talking about 2.0d). So are you looking for something that can read 2.x disks and copy files to another DOS FileSystem that is in DD or a simple menu DOS akin to 2.x?

 

DOS 4.x and XE come to mind but I would not recommend them at all.

I'm pretty sure that in the mid/late 80's I was able to create a DD DOS 2.0S boot disk as an experiment using 2 drives, just to see if it was possible.

 

I booted DOS, then used a BASIC utility to reconfigure the PERCOM block of D2:(a USD upgraded 1050), back to DOS to format/initialize a disk in D2:.

 

IIRC the resulting DD disk was able to successfully boot on a DD capable 1050, but it wasn't very useful since there was no way to switch density.

 

I didn't experiment any farther, since by that time I already had SpartaDOS which came with the US Doubler upgrade.

Edited August 30, 2018 by BillC

[+kheller2]

I'm pretty sure that in the mid/late 80's I was able to create a DD DOS 2.0S boot disk as an experiment using 2 drives, just to see if it was possible.

 

I booted DOS, then used a BASIC utility to reconfigure the PERCOM block of D2:(a USD upgraded 1050), back to DOS to format/initialize a disk in D2:.

 

IIRC the resulting DD disk was able to successfully boot on a DD capable 1050, but it wasn't very useful since there was no way to switch density.

 

I didn't experiment any farther, since by that time I already had SpartaDOS which came with the US Doubler upgrade.

 

 

I stand corrected. Looking over the source code (inside Atari DOS), DOS 2.0s is SD and DD compatible. It asked the drive if its an 810 or an 815 and adjusted everything accordingly for 128 or 256 byte length sectors (also stated in the 815 operating manual). Which leads me to wonder what the d in 2.0d was for and what changed other than the DUP. Supposedly the 815 was DD only (could not use SD) and inverted (righted?) all the bits on disk compared to the 810.

[1050]

In the world of Atari DOSes there are two main

categories, SpartaDOS file system and Type 2.0 file

system. That is usually denoted as DOS 2.0 type and/or

as just AtariDOS as well. Several DOS including MyDOS

are DOS 2.0 type. TOP DOS supports DD and is a Type

2.0 DOS which really only means that you take a real

DOS 2.0 disk with files on it and any type 2.0 DOS

can see them, find them and move them. (with tiresome

exceptions) Happy DOS should be another DD contender

but the list for DD type 2.0 is a rather short list,

I'm already drawing blanks at this point. Wiki has a

better memory.

 

So on the SpartaDOS type side there is of course SDX,

and SpartaDOS 1x, 2x, 3x and BW-DOS. IIRC and I often

don't RC when it comes to Sparta issues.

 

DOS 2.0 only did single density, some have modified

it, but more modified DOS 2.5 too.

Only the never released DOS 2.0D supported full

double density where DOS 2.5 supported Single and

Enhanced density. ED is also called dual density

with a few lazy thinkers dropping back onto using

the word double on occasion. I believe Bob Wolley

hacked a version and got Double Density for

DOS 2.0 but the details were not remembered here.

 

 

Can you please lay out which is the best and why in descending order? Is the communication / sio timing tailored more for pal or ntsc these days?

I honestly think 4.55 beta 4 is the best and certainly

the least buggy. Bugs are fixed as stumbled across with

an option to report a bug at Mathy's MyDOS page. It's

almost always a Marslett bug since Puff wrote his

comments on bug fixes in lower case in the source

code. In the early days both I and Mathy had MyDOS

system up and running and working the devil out them

so bugs found were common. Today neither of us has

a real system and what bugs I come across are rare

since I'm not caged by an 8 bit anymore. There should

be a bug list of fixed bugs at Mathy's MyDOS page or

an early try at a one.

 

Don't use 4.53 or 4.54 outright.

This could certainly have been most of your problems too.

It's still quite popular.

The problem here is that there are repeated sections

of DOS.SYS code and no known resolution to the issue

where DUP.SYS knows where to call a routine at. Is it

jumping into the portion that was displaced by the

duplicate block of code or not? I can not know since

the source doesn't work for these two versions. I

would have to disassemble it entirely and might as

well fix it for what? I can't keep a decent timeline

on 4.55 beta 4 needs as is = not happening unless

anybody else wants to fix it. I can't declare

permission to do so anyway, I just work on my version

when I feel it needs it bad.

 

4.50 is the original and for most people few problems

actually exist in day to day use. But you want to use some

features of MyDOS that are slightly out of the norm

and a darn bug pops up. I've got most of them corralled

I hope but often when you are using some new hardware that

I don't even have, it can lead to issues.

 

Nothing has been done with PAL/SIO timings, MyDOS still

doesn't support high speed SIO in the normal manner of

the meaning. You can have it with Hias's high speed patch

for your OS however and it should work fine too. Don't

blame MyDOS for code it doesn't have, if there are high

speed SIO issues using MyDOS, know going in that MyDOS

does nothing under ROM and has no inherent dealings

with SIO routines other than standardized OS entry points.

If you feel it's still a MyDOS problem, I'm all ears.

Please splain the issue to me. PM or out here in front

of everyone. Often in front of everyone is where I see

the real issue explained well, and there are issues.

Like FJC's fix for 65816 machines running MyDOS which

seems to just work, where unpatched MyDOS fails with

a 65816 running the code. Jon's 65816 patch is likely

to be included in a beta 5 release with full credit

attributed to him with a link to his website in the

source code for that beta 5 release as is the normal

way I steal code for MyDOS. Jon's credit would be the

first website since all other victims don't have a

working presence on the interwebs.

 

In my opinion there are two versions to use 4.50

and 4.55 beta 4. I have fixed some bugs in 4.55 beta

4, while including all of David's (author of 4.53/4)

brilliant add ons within beta 4. You are on your own

with 4.50. Unless it's as easy as Jon's 65816 patch

kind of a deal.

 

Companion software MyRD is used as either an

autorun.sys for 4.50 or *.AR0 file for beta 4

to set up a ramdisk and load it with files from

D1:RAMDISK: subdirectory. Source and file at

Mathy's MyDOS page.

http://www.mathyvannisselroy.nl/mydos.htm

 

All MyDOS has an issue we call the format bug where

MyDOS steadfastly returns to prior configurations

for a drive after proper setting of the configurable

drive via percom block methods. In MyDOS the percom

block is just ignored and the old data is restored

every time you go there. This can lead to issues not

so very clear especially coupled with modern hardware

that expects a different result than outright refusal

to play fair. The percom block method in MyDOS is

completely broken, no errors reported either.

 

Only workaround currently is to use (O. Change Config.

method from DUP.SYS menu where a change can be made

and it's now a valid change. Machine language shorcut

of just stabbing proper values into both SECSIZ

(0x07C4) and DRVDEF (0x07CC) tables will work too,

but these values are 'encoded' in MyDOS style

shorthand so it's not entirely intuitive what values

are needed here. I was tasked with writing a format

program for MyDOS where I would do this latter part,

but I don't have a working 1.44 meg percom block to

extract valid values from so a bit reluctant to

issue 2, 3, or 4 versions based on trial and error

alone. Anybody with a working 1.44 meg drive care

to share the percom block from it? Post it here or

PM me. Progress has been made concerning the 800XL

under ROM Ramdisk, just have to find room for the

code from DOS 2.5 version and make it fly with

MyDOS. All the news fit to print from MyDOS currently.

So back on topic requires a new thread or PM shall

we?

[1050]

Nice find kheller2.

I also stand corrected on DOS 2.0 and SD only issue, but

it's only an 815 that would do the uninverted DD anyway.

No need to switch densities when a simple status call

would force it into either or SD - DD based only on

who answered the phone call, an 810 or 815.

No wonder I thought what I did, I'm all out of 815

drives at the moment.

[+Nezgar]

I stand corrected. Looking over the source code (inside Atari DOS), DOS 2.0s is SD and DD compatible. It asked the drive if its an 810 or an 815 and adjusted everything accordingly for 128 or 256 byte length sectors (also stated in the 815 operating manual). Which leads me to wonder what the d in 2.0d was for and what changed other than the DUP. Supposedly the 815 was DD only (could not use SD) and inverted (righted?) all the bits on disk compared to the 810.

 

In addition to my previous post linking to Bob Woolley's attestation of getting DOS 2.0S working in DD in the past, there's another post by him in the same thread where he states actual code differences in 2.0D:

 

"It is not just a hacked DUP, however. DOS (2.0D) sets up D3: and D4: dynamically, without decreasing FRE(0). DOS 2.0S can't do that. If you format a DD disk with DOS 2.0S, it grabs another 256 bytes from FRE(0)."

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/209833-format-sdx-stock-1050-weird-bug/?p=2713370

[+Nezgar]

Only the never released DOS 2.0D...

I thought there were some released, but the FAQ knows all: http://atari-800xl.com/faq/atari-8bit-faq.txt

 o CX8201 Master Diskette II
(DOS II version 2.0D, or DOS 2.0D; version of DOS II supporting both 815
and 810 disk drives; prototype box exists, but never shipped)

- Atari continued to promote the 815 through the summer of 1981 (see Company
  Store price list for 8-24-81 for a late reference); it was dropped from
  the product line by October 1981.  Prototype units exist (according to 
  Atarimuseum.com: 60 units were produced), but the 815 never shipped.
  http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8BITS/400800/815/815.html

June 15-18: At the Summer CES in Chicago, for the 400/800 ($630/$1,080) Atari
introduced: 815 dual disk drive with DOS 2.0D ($1499.95; never shipped)

[+kheller2]

For the DOS addict in you: http://www.atarimania.com/faq-atari-400-800-xl-xe-what-other-3rd-party-dos-versions-were-released-for-the-atari_85.html

[+kheller2]

 

In addition to my previous post linking to Bob Woolley's attestation of getting DOS 2.0S working in DD in the past, there's another post by him in the same thread where he states actual code differences in 2.0D:

 

"It is not just a hacked DUP, however. DOS (2.0D) sets up D3: and D4: dynamically, without decreasing FRE(0). DOS 2.0S can't do that. If you format a DD disk with DOS 2.0S, it grabs another 256 bytes from FRE(0)."

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/209833-format-sdx-stock-1050-weird-bug/?p=2713370

 

I saw that but wasn't exactly sure how that came about given you need a dual 128K buffer for the new DD drive. There are examples of this type of setup in Inside Atari DOS but not sure about the dynamic part.

I also find it odd that not much if anything is mentioned in that book about 2.0d, even though there are several mentions of the 815 and lots of code for it.

[Keneg]

I was using MyDOS 4.50 because it comes with the RespeQt software. I downloaded 4.55 beta 4. I like it so far. Was able to create DD disk and copy DOS files to it. It then booted fine. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

[Keneg]

I finally got in some 74SL74 chips today. I had previously replaced U21 and the pressure pad. With a new U18, 74SL74, the drive now works great. So now I have 3 functioning drives, one with the Happy upgrade.

[+Nezgar]

Good to hear, and congrats on saving them all! Now they'll last another 35 years

[Keneg]

Good to hear, and congrats on saving them all! Now they'll last another 35 years

Yes, plus I learned a lot and had some fun. Now I have to decide what to do with the extras.

[cx2k]

I don't know about shipped, but they were definitely made.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought there were some released, but the FAQ knows all: http://atari-800xl.com/faq/atari-8bit-faq.txt

 o CX8201 Master Diskette II
(DOS II version 2.0D, or DOS 2.0D; version of DOS II supporting both 815
and 810 disk drives; prototype box exists, but never shipped)

 

[_The Doctor__]

the 815 box should come with 1 Master disk and 1 Blank disk... fill the drive slot joy!