WizWor Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I have been using an RCA to composite cable. I see a lot of inexpensive rca to hdmi upscalers available. Anyone strongly recommend an Atari to HDMI solution? Please elaborate on screen fill, scaling, and upscaling. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 You'd be better off converting S-Video. The better the source signal the better the resultant picture. Or maybe have a look at Sofia to get the better source signal in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keneg Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I have been using an RCA to composite cable. I see a lot of inexpensive rca to hdmi upscalers available. Anyone strongly recommend an Atari to HDMI solution? Please elaborate on screen fill, scaling, and upscaling. thanks! I have an S-video cable on my 130XE. The clarity of the display is amazing. M6 7nderstanding is that the XEs and 800 have the proper pins connected to use S-video. On the XLs you need to do a mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) upscaling ,converting...... Why not just buy a Sophia DVI and have a direct digital source signal....without any conversion losses or using lower quality sources... By the way, this topic is pretty hot,....videocables....connecting to flat TVs....lots of topics about this subject Edited July 5, 2018 by Level42 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 It ultimately depends on HW availability, and your overall usage goal... As for me, there are two usage domains (both are based on the principle of not touching the host Atari HW and doing as much processing as needed on the Digital-to-Digital domain, instead): DESKTOP: NO TVs of any kind here. Just high-speed PC/Pro monitor driven by a high-resolution video-scaling processor, with a decent de-interlace engine. DVDO iScan HD or HD+ (outputs on DVI, and provides more than enough bandwidth and pre / post-processing features, with excellent de-interlacing control): LIVING ROOM / Home Theater: in an open, wide angle-of-view area, there is simply no place for anything other than a LARGE and high-quality LCD / LED TV. And with real HW and such large TV, a full-blown video processor, with HDMI output, and deeper image-processing feature-set. In this case DVDO iScan VP50-pro, BUT... the reality is that in such scenario, I also have a dedicated Windows10-based Notebook connected to it, and running Atari on Altirra ends up being a much more effective proposition, because you have PERFECT video-and-sound quality, better control of upscaling and sharpening, higher chroma resolution, full control over NTSC or PAL or Artifacting, and all of the PC's resources (including wireless input devices, etc.).. plus you keep your real HW at rest, while Altirra takes care of everything else... For REAL HW, the ideal video upgrade would be one that seamlessly allows NTSC and PAL output, as well as COMPOSITE, Y/C and RGB interfaces, either simultaneously or soft-switchable from the Atari. But we are not there, yet. In both cases, external video processor will be equally necessary to fully harness the Atari video usage and quality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) I hate to think how much that costs ....Looks amazing on both items...(I just looked during an edit: need a lay down..) Edited July 5, 2018 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Well I just finally installed and got my RGB Sophia running and it looks GREAT on my CRT B&O MX4000. And I don't like hooking A8's up to LCD's so this is the furthest (quality wise) I can go. I still have the (not too great) coolnovilties cable so I know my final cable solution will improve it with one final step but I must say the output I have now is something I have never seen before on a CRT. Emulation.....LCD....it's just not my thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 My 800XL hooked up via A/V cables to my 720p HDTV looka nearly as good and clear as Altirra from the PC via HDMI on the same TV. The only thing that I miss about CRT is light gun support. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Light gun support and LAG, can't stand the delay... Using a CRT makes all the difference sometimes, even on todays' FPS competitions, unless you got the big big bux for a fast as all get out flat panel... CRT won many a competition....milliseconds matter! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Light gun support and LAG, can't stand the delay... Using a CRT makes all the difference sometimes, even on todays' FPS competitions, unless you got the big big bux for a fast as all get out flat panel... CRT won many a competition....milliseconds matter! Yep - try River Raid or Kaboom on CRT vs LCD, and see which one scores higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) If you like modifying and upgrading and haven't already done a vintage upgrade like Clearpic or SV 2.1, then yes, I'd agree that Sophia would be the way to go, assuming they are available when you are ready for one. But, if like me, you did video modifications years ago, or, want to do it on the cheap (Clearpic and SV 2.1 are very cheap with excellent results) then doing S-video upgrade internally and an external converter is also very good. I have had the SV 2.1 upgrade along with an Ambery S-video-to-VGA upscaler/converter for years now and the picture is phenomenal and I have no reason to do a Sophia at this point. The image is sharper in real life than I can capture on my camera phone, but it still looks good. The second picture is with 3D-comb filtering turned on, if you don't like sharp edges. Edited July 6, 2018 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Light gun support and LAG, can't stand the delay... Using a CRT makes all the difference sometimes, even on todays' FPS competitions, unless you got the big big bux for a fast as all get out flat panel... CRT won many a competition....milliseconds matter! Light gun support is the only reason I would feel the need to go back to CRT now, but I don't have a light gun. I was a die-hard CRT user with my 1084S monitor until it went down for the count, but now with my current set-up I like it much better, the lack of scan-lines and a MUCH sharper image is what I like about my S-video-to-VGA & LCD screen now. Of course I never notice any lag in my display either...it all depends on the quality of the monitor and converters and quality of the video source, IMHO. Edited July 6, 2018 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 My 800XL hooked up via A/V cables to my 720p HDTV looka nearly as good and clear as Altirra from the PC via HDMI on the same TV. The only thing that I miss about CRT is light gun support. If your LCD / HDTV screen is fast and LARGE enough, Altirra-over-HDMI will give you higher-quality scrolling, better up-scaling, higher CHROMA resolution (>=gr. 7 color-detail will be much more accurately represented), better sound quality, NTSC & PAL at will, very good artifacting emulation, support of multiple peripherals and accessories, bluetooth connectivity (keyboards and game-pads), Atari Joysticks-over-USB, etc., some of which you will not get as good, or not at all with with real HW, even with some upgrades. At least that is my experience with my Sony BRAVIA HDTV screen (to which I can currently feed almost any video source I can think of, including Atari over DVDO iScan Vp-50pro or directly to Bravia's video engine, whatever I want). Now, in a more closed, personal space, the story is a little different, and lends itself much better for real HW and its trade-offs. CRT screens are a liability, in general, and high quality LCDs with high-quality video processing engines, will deliver you more light per-frame, better overall color-accuracy, more video bandwidth, no overscan problems, and (horizontal scrolling aside), will run circles around CRTs. This mirrors my experience with ALL my LCDs (Viewsonic, EIZO and SONY) vs. my SONY CRT (Wega 32"). They key here is, as noted around, the LCD + Video Engine quality... because there is a ton of worthless crap out-there, that will make look your Atari like shit, if you are not careful enough. Some examples from my desktop pro-Monitor (LCD), directly from UNMODIFIED Atari 800 / Incognito (via DVDO iScan HD processor): 80-Col. Emulator (CPM & Last Word): Composite output (on LCD): 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) You took better pictures than I, Faicuai, but my results are exactly the same quality as yours, looking at your pictures. Though I don't notice any issues at all with horizontal or vertical scrolling, it's all as good or better than my old 1084S CRT. Edited July 6, 2018 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 You took better pictures than I, Faicuai, but my results are exactly the same quality as yours, looking at your pictures. Though I don't notice any issues at all with horizontal or vertical scrolling, it's all as good or better than my old 1084S CRT. Can't blame you as it is really hard to capture actual screen output from a live smartphone camera... I just can't make them look as good as the screen really looks, here. Real output is much sharper, much more tonal / color uniform and pleasant than whatever I can post, here (!) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Can't blame you as it is really hard to capture actual screen output from a live smartphone camera... I just can't make them look as good as the screen really looks, here. Real output is much sharper, much more tonal / color uniform and pleasant than whatever I can post, here (!) My color is definitely better than what my camera phone turns it into as well, deeper and more vibrant. I occasionally post screen shots of images I converted with Rasta converter, to attempt to show how much better it is in every way than the .png images on the screen or looking at them via Altirra, but the pictures do not do the real life screen any justice at all. I have incredible reds for instance, from my Atari 1200XL with it's upgraded chroma boost circuit (unique to 1200XL's and only SV 2.1 upgrade takes advantage of it) that my camera phone does not catch. Edited July 6, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 lol, emulation... really? I think I'll stick with the real thing as I always have and more than likely always will 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 lol, emulation... really? I think I'll stick with the real thing as I always have and more than likely always will You will hardly find a stronger supporter of real and collection-grade HW than me, as you can see in my arsenal. But we need to be honest (and wise enough) to basically accept that: a) our Ataris were not designed as a system to be part of large-screen living rooms where viewing distances are typically 7-feet or longer (running all those power, video, SIO, and joysrick cables around is plain ridiculuous). Operating our Atari HW constantly requires direct interaction with its keyboard, attached peripherals, and controllers... so the console itself must stay close to you at all times. NOT GOOD in a larger-scale living room, where all equipment is organized and provisioned centrally, and you sit 7-8 feet away from the screen with a bunch of people (as it is my case). b) Emulation has gone a LONG, LONG way, especially with Altirra which will only continue to get even better... and the stuff you can do there, in the context of a large living room, already surpases real HW,s practicality and functionality in almost every way (as a single, integrated package, that is). So, in summay: in a large-enough Screen and living-room area setup, Windows-10 / DirectX / Bluetooth / USB will be your weapons of choice, and there will be very little real (and current) HW will be able to do to fully match or do better in that specific context... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
256 colors Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I know this much it's costing me a bomb so far going hardware 800XL £100 Replacement PSU £20 Composite cable £10 Sio2sd £20 XRGB-mini FRAMEMEISTER with correct psu and remote overlay £360 Working 1010 and 1050? Suitable HDMI TV that's good as a monitor too est £500-800 Sophia and ultimate 1mb mod purchase and fitting £? Probably missing other stuff too So don't knock emulation too hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) I must be the only one in the group who likes the older slightly fuzzy look, don't get me wrong, in the say I was like the rst and wanted a nice clean picture but a. RGB as a computer lead standard wasn't an option as yet and b. S-Video also was only about to come on the horizon so you had TV or Composite.. Composite looked nicer so I was happy with that... Now I've got pin sharp Switch, PS4, PC ultra res stuff etc then yes the Atari look old BUT that's why I like it. Its a little memory and good times machine as well as a computer, I look at it and its what I had then, its not some FPGA emulated thing with a HDMI lead, its the EXACT machine I had and its showing on a REAL CRT monitor in composite like it was back then, that is the magic...The real magic... Even in Altirra which I'm a massive, dare I say number one fan of (Don't worry Avery, I won't hobble you...(see 1990 film Misery with Kathy Bates and James Caan for the Number one fan reference etc) , I still prefer the old artifacting display with the bilinear filtering for the soft look. For me that makes it damn close to the real thing but as said, the real thing wins (but only just and Altirra trumps in almost every other department). As I sit here with my Atari, C64 and Amiga (real) and two monitors for them I get the old experience as I want it, using modern tech is nice to enhance it but its changing the feel and also not something I could afford even if I wanted it which I don't.. The only little thing I miss from my Atari is my OmnimonXL, I cannot be bothered with the soldering and de-chipping to fit one, I'll save up in the future and get a 32-in 1 OS from Steve (as long as he's still doing them then) and use that, not exactly as history but my nice multi-os adaptor I had made is now long gone, probably landfill long ago..... Paul... I think I'm the only one who likes it as it all was...Maybe it seems odd I love Altirra as that's new and filled with new stuff but that's why I love it, I have my memory giving real hardware and a super pimped out mega Atari with all the new stuff on to play with too, Neither interfer with the other, two lovely experiences.. Edited July 6, 2018 by Mclaneinc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I must be the only one in the group who likes the older slightly fuzzy look, don't get me wrong, in the say I was like the rst and wanted a nice clean picture but a. RGB as a computer lead standard wasn't an option as yet and b. S-Video also was only about to come on the horizon so you had TV or Composite.. Composite looked nicer so I was happy with that... Now I've got pin sharp Switch, PS4, PC ultra res stuff etc then yes the Atari look old BUT that's why I like it. Its a little memory and good times machine as well as a computer, I look at it and its what I had then, its not some FPGA emulated thing with a HDMI lead, its the EXACT machine I had and its showing on a REAL CRT monitor in composite like it was back then, that is the magic...The real magic... (...) For the sake of (complete) clarity, it does not seem that an "either or" type of decision or choice is being implied along the arguments exposed, though. Instead, it is about being pragmatic and resorting to the most effective weapons-of-choice, based on the usage or occasion. It is not an "must be always", "can only be", etc., type of proposition, I believe... And this comes from an owner of a select arsenal of toys (which includes, for instance, a pristine, barely-used Anniversary SONY SL-HF2100 Betamax. Just go and check the price of a like-new one on ebay... ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Basically my point, as can be seen I'm not trying to get anyone to not get the best picture but see I'm one of the rare people that likes to see it as it was and if I want the 'future' I can go to Altirra.. I'm not getting in to the whole is it ethical to change old hardware, I see it as a personal choice and just think I'm alone in the loving the old as it was look Its sort of like MAME, some people love the old arcade games as they came out and want them to look the same yet others want all sorts of filters to change the picture, that's not my thing if it changes it completely from how it was seen back then, with the PAL Artifacting on Altirra it looks pretty close to composite but if I want pixel clarity its also there..;.Pure choice.. But lets remember I look at the Atari and the other retro machines not so much as work horses but pure pleasure machines and part of the pleasure is being whisked back to the times I saw these games first hit the machines so they hold great memories and its always a nice pick me up.. I was having a wee C64 bash earlier and showing my daughter a game that was frustrating the bits off me called Frak the caveman, Frak was an early C64 game and its tough, the collision is dodgy but its got a little charm and I kept playing and I realised 1. why I stopped playing it back then and 2. the real reason for the name and how its showed on screen. 1. its just frustrating as said and 2 the word frak comes on the screen as you poor caveman hits the dirt for all the wrong reasons and then you see that the name represents another four letter word with f at the start and k at the end 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyjones70 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I purchased a cheap s-video to HDMI converter and I only get black and white on my element flat screen TV. Is that because I bought a cheap converter or could it be something specific to the TV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff3125 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I hear the Retrotink 2x is excellent, it supports composite, component and S-Video in. It's only $100, wish I could tell you more but there haven't been any in-depth reviews on it with the Atari. There are some very happy Commodore users with it and the output looks to be very sharp with no lag. Hopefully I'll get mine in this month and post back the results (1200xl w/s-video). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scitari Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Why do you have two DVDOs next to the Indus GTs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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