HYPERKIN Retron77 Joystick issue - Update!

[NISMOPC]

Hyperkin responded to my email (included details and video of broken joystick)

 

Back story: http://atariage.com/...n-77/?p=4067502

 

They provided two options were given:

1. They can replace the joystick with a CirKa A77 Item Number #M07210 (Not branded by Hyperkin and not warrantied)

2. Then can replace the joystick with the "upgraded" version Hyperkin joystick, but will not be available until Fall (ETA October 2018)

 

I opted for option 2, because I feel that since I paid for a working unit, I should have a working unit.

 

So far their customer service response is top notch and I look forward to getting the upgrade. Still bummed the original broke within 30 mins of receiving it, but willing to be patient since this is a new item that was highly anticipated.

Edited July 11, 2018 by NISMOPC

[+groundtrooper]

Probably the best choice. Having bought 2 CircKa A77's and had the inner ring crack on the first game of E.T. while trying to get away from the FBI/Scientist.

I am not impressed with CircKa A77.

[NISMOPC]

I am adding these images to show the full damage of the joystick. Since I know Hyperkin is/was responding to some forum posts, this might also provide them more details into their flawed units.

 

Overall build of joystick seemed good, but I see two area's of improvement. Use of proper flexible joystick insert and larger nubs to contact the tactical buttons. The criss/cross pattern of the nubs (small posts) are not very precise. This appears to be the reason one of the buttons is destroyed and the other dented pretty bad. The joystick insert cracked between the location of the two damaged tactile buttons assuming the nubs were misaligned after it cracked causing the further damage.

 

Top of unit:

 

Bottom of unit:

 

Fully disassembled:

 

Joystick insert cracked:

 

Completely destroyed tactile button:

 

Dented tactile button:

[+groundtrooper]

I am adding these images to show the full damage of the joystick. Since I know Hyperkin is/was responding to some forum posts, this might also provide them more details into their flawed units.

 

Overall build of joystick seemed good, but I see two area's of improvement. Use of proper flexible joystick insert and larger nubs to contact the tactical buttons. The criss/cross pattern of the nubs (small posts) are not very precise. This appears to be the reason one of the buttons is destroyed and the other dented pretty bad. The joystick insert cracked between the location of the two damaged tactile buttons assuming the nubs were misaligned after it cracked causing the further damage.

 

 

Joystick insert cracked:

Retron77 Joystick Insert Cracked.jpg

This is exactly what happened to my CircKa.

 

I can't believe that both CircKa and Hyperkin are using such a hard plastic for this part of the stick. Did none of their designers or engineers ever open up an original CX-40?

[NISMOPC]

Received email from Hyperkin today. They asked that I send them a copy of the invoice to speed up the process. Not sure why, because I gave them the invoice #, but I did as they asked.

 

Looking forward to the replacement.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I have not even used my included stick yet. Retron77 is giving me reliable service so far so good, after the update by Stephena. I need to make a video. As far as build quality, the sticks look nice and feel decent enout in my hands, if a bit light. I do like the angled corners and woodgrain accents. But holding one in the hand and actually playing it are two different things. It definitely feels lighter than the bitd atari cx-40, so they likely skimped on material by building thinner molds. And the black abs in the actuator is an issue. I've honestly never investigated the material in the old sticks, however the orange painted cx-40s that shipped with the light sixers and 4-switch woodies are of superior construction than the later all black sticks that shipped with vaders and jrs. I suspect that Atari might have changed to inferior plastics post crash, using a harder, more brittle formulation.

 

Still, whether you use dome contacts or surface mounted micros, the plastic actuator construction is poor. I honestly prefer the Atgames sticks with carbon dot membranes if I'm gonna use a cx-40 replica. The NES Advantage and Sega Power Stick used membranes as well, which operates like an oversized dpad. I honestly don't find any vintage sticks or modern clone joysticks satisfying in construction and build quality. I'd rather use a pad that a cheaply constructed stick. All of the joysticks I commonly use in rotation consist of a readymade or custom fabbed enclosure with real arcade parts and full sized microswitches. The difference in resposiveness and durability is night and day, but a fair bit of parts, labor, and tools is necessary to build one.

[+sramirez2008]

... Retron77 is giving me reliable service so far so good, after the update by Stephena.

Good to know. if Hyperkin includes this update in their next build, along with the upgraded joysticks, I may purchase one.

 

Others have mentioned that the paddles suffer from lag? Have you had a chance to test? If so, have you tried Atari paddles, AtGames or both?

 

Thanks.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Good to know. if Hyperkin includes this update in their next build, along with the upgraded joysticks, I may purchase one.

 

Others have mentioned that the paddles suffer from lag? Have you had a chance to test? If so, have you tried Atari paddles, AtGames or both?

 

Thanks.

Paddles don't lag noticeably, but they do jitter moreso than on stock hardware. My paddles operated flawlessly on oem hardware after a good cleaning, and I scored 799 points on Kaboom on the Retron77 if that helps. Strangely, I uploaded the Circus Atariage prge rom and paddles did not recognise. Perhaps Stella uses a crc checksum to determine if a game needs paddles. If so, than paddle homebrew might be a nogo.

[alex_79]

Strangely, I uploaded the Circus Atariage prge rom and paddles did not recognise. Perhaps Stella uses a crc checksum to determine if a game needs paddles. If so, than paddle homebrew might be a nogo.

The correct way to handle this would be to have the MCU on the controller board signal the console what controller type has been autodetected on each port and start Stella with the correct parameters for those. Relying on the game checksum works well on a PC, but IMO is a very bad design choice for this kind of device.

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by alex_79

[+stephena]

The correct way to handle this would be to have the MCU on the controller board signal the console what controller type has been autodetected on each port and start Stella with the correct parameters for those. Relying on the game checksum works well on a PC, but IMO is a very bad design choice for this kind of device.

 

Being explicitedly told what the BS scheme or controller is would be very nice, and Stella is structured in such a way that this would be feasible.

 

That being said, while not the the most user-friendly approach, one can create a stella.pro properties file and drop it in the 'stella' folder on the SD card, and it will pick it up and use it. So supporting specific controllers for a certain ROM is possible without updating firmware.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I was a bit bummed out that the Circus AtariAge PRGE demo (the one that has the spinnning icon roll off the screen when loaded on a Harmony cart but not when loaded in Stella), runs on the Stella 3.9.3 but is not playable as paddles don't seem to operate. Also the default UI cannot be navigated with paddles, so you have to hotswap the controllers after loading a ROM.

 

IIRC, the paddles always have pins 5 and 9 HIGH when present, except briefly (for a period of time roughly proportional to the resistance value of the paddle pot) after the input is reset by software. This simple controller type detection bit could easily be configured to pass the controller ID on to Stella.

 

Obviously Genesis controllers will confuse the detection algorithm into thinking it is a paddle controller even though they operate like joysticks. This is why you have to hold FIRE upon boot to use a paddle controller in Harmony. I might test other paddle homebrew ROMs to see if they work correctly without a checksum.

 

@stephena How do I format a stella.pro file? I assume it's encoded as plain ascii text?

[+stephena]

The UI is outside my control; it has nothing to do with Stella and must be fixed by Hyperkin.

 

Newer versions of Stella can use the detection you mention, but not the ancient version used on this device.

 

The easiest way to create an appropriate stella.pro is to load the ROM on the PC version of Stella, go into "Game Properties" and adjust what you want, then save the entry. Then take the resulting file (its location on your system is described in the Stella manual) and copy it to the SD card as mentioned above. Like I said, not user friendly, but at least possible.

[Coolcrab]

Would this make other controllers compatible? Like the driving one etc? Or is this only for paddle Vs joystick?

[+stephena]

I should have been a little clearer. There are two parts to supporting a controller; what controller is plugged into the virtual port (Stella side) and what signals are sent to Stella (hardware side). Stella knows about essentially every controller ever made for the 2600, but it sometimes need to be told what one to use. This is what a properties file does (among other things).

 

The other side of the equation is what signals the hardware puts out, for Stella to pick up on. AFAICT, looking at the kernel code that Hyperkin have modified, they have only written support for joysticks and paddles. They would need to add more code for other controller types. So while Stella can be told what controller to use (aka, how to interpret its input), generating the actual input from the hardware happens outside Stella, at the OS level, and hence outside my control.

 

So when I said "supporting specific controllers for a certain ROM is possible", I meant those ROMs where they are "getting the right input". So if a paddle game doesn't currently work, it can be made to work with a properties entry. But getting other types to work requires more coding at the OS level.

[Coolcrab]

Ah ok, would that be hard to put in?

[+stephena]

No idea, as I haven't done much kernel development. Their current code for this functionality is ~1000 lines, so it's not too complex so far. Adding support for other controllers may be just as easy or extremely hard. I can't say; Hyperkin would have to look into and implement this.

[Atari Pixel]

My Retron 77 joystick broke too. Not gonna get into it but I did contact Hyperkin and decided to fix it myself.

In my case the stick didn't break. It's hard to notice in the picture below but one of the switches got bent from normal use.

 

 

 

I bought replacement switches from Digi-Key (but they can be found on Ebay too). It's a surface mount tactile switch, 5.25mm square by 1.5mm high, gull wing termination style. Part #: CKN9104CT-ND

 

 

It was an easy soldering job. Just use pliers and be careful with the solder pads on the board.

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Atari Pixel

[atarifan88]

I didn't think anyone would ever develop joysticks that would break faster than the original Atari 2600 joysticks, but they did! Congrats Hyperkin for your continuing excellence in product quality!

 

[hizzy]

Best electronic sticks are amazing. I would only use those, no matter what comes with my console.

[ave1]

Best electronic sticks are amazing. I would only use those, no matter what comes with my console.

How much are these?

[hizzy]

How much are these?

 

 

Here you go!

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/joystick.htm#PCB

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/quickguide.htm

Edited August 1, 2018 by hizzy

[Atari Pixel]

I am new here but I've noticed the negativity around this product. Of course it's bad they break so easily but I was trying to provide useful information. I get that you don't like it but posting a turd next to my goodwill efforts is lame.

[+Muddyfunster]

I am new here but I've noticed the negativity around this product. Of course it's bad they break so easily but I was trying to provide useful information. I get that you don't like it but posting a turd next to my goodwill efforts is lame.

 

I think it was aimed at the build quality of the joysticks rather than your "how to fix it yourself" post.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

I am new here but I've noticed the negativity around this product. Of course it's bad they break so easily but I was trying to provide useful information. I get that you don't like it but posting a turd next to my goodwill efforts is lame.

Read the post IT IS OBVIOUSLY directed at HYPERKIN. Lighten up and don't be so sensitive or you are going to have a hard time here and in forums in general.

[atarifan88]

 

I think it was aimed at the build quality of the joysticks rather than your "how to fix it yourself" post.

 

That is correct. It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with your post Atari Pixel. It just so happens you were the last one who posted. The reason behind the post was to emphasize the obvious lack of testing on Hyperkin's part. The consumers should not be the ones to have to "clean up" after such poor quality, hence the posting of the "trophy."

Edited August 2, 2018 by atarifan88