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NeoGeo64

What was the Jaguar truly capable of?

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...

 

Edited: One more thing I like to add on a positive note... I actually like how Neo Geo handles all of that data using the little resources the system has as far as memory goes. They just had a few kilobytes of memory to work with yet they were able to use all of that graphical content and animation very effectively. It wouldn't be the first time me giving some accolades to the SNK console; I just admire how they used their system and made the most out of it.

That would be because the gfx chips would access the ROMs directly

 

https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=VRAM

https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=LSPC2-A2

https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=Sprites

https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=C_ROM

https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=S_ROM

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Is it particularly useful for people to bash threads they don't care for instead of just ignoring it?

 

I do think he should have used the search function though as their are plenty of threads and thoughts on this subject already. Those would have kept him busy playing catch up for a while.

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Woke up.

 

Opened phone.

 

Saw this.

 

Thought 'fuck! Did js2 resurrect itself and start pumping shit back onto the internet?'

 

Realised it was just the regular refugees from there and went off to find bacon.

 

Have a good day folks.

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What I'd do (and suggest anyone with more time than me do) is to grab some sprites from here https://www.spriters-resource.com/neo_geo_ngcd/, then find the sounds, and then code something up in RB+. Anything. Rather than speculate, go do it. Much more productive than telling those who are intimately familiar with the system what it can or cannot do. If you can put together complex music using mod trackers philipj, you'll cope with Basic programming easily. I'm far from a great coder (mostly self-taught), yet I teach it, and have done so for nearly 20 years. If I can, anyone can.

 

 

 

Skip,

 

Reading you challenge/suggestion really makes me want to try my hand at making something with RB+. Some day I will get over my fear/hesitation of taking a chance and see if I am capable of making a game.

 

The website you linked is an excellent source for sprites and background graphics.

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Whatever you say guy... Just an idea I'm putting out there for fun discussion, but if you would be so kind, can you link you coverage of the matter so that I can read it?

 

 

Faster than the JRISC processors...? The Jaguar is a 2D monster capable of doing much more than what the Neo Geo could do. Even if emulation wasn't possible, a decent port of a Neo Geo game isn't that far from a possibility provided the ROM size issue is taken care, which will be when the new SD cartridge come into play.

 

Edited: One more thing I like to add on a positive note... I actually like how Neo Geo handles all of that data using the little resources the system has as far as memory goes. They just had a few kilobytes of memory to work with yet they were able to use all of that graphical content and animation very effectively. It wouldn't be the first time me giving some accolades to the SNK console; I just admire how they used their system and made the most out of it.

To put things into perspective, the Saturn needed the RAM expansion cart to run Metal Slug and IIRC even Playstation games had animations cut for ported NeoGeo games. Id hate to see what these games would look like on a significantly less powerful system than those.

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Bacon?

 

 

What's the sauce of preference?.

 

I used to be partial to brown with my bacon butties, but now,it's tomato all day long.

 

It sounds like we can never be friends... the ONLY answer is Brown!

 

;) :D

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Is it particularly useful for people to bash threads they don't care for instead of just ignoring it?

 

I do think he should have used the search function though as their are plenty of threads and thoughts on this subject already. Those would have kept him busy playing catch up for a while.

 

Only if you have a wall of text will they ignore a thread unless you mention "JS2" and then they come swarming in to pounce just for posting an old throwback story from back in the day... Something that was fond memories for me, but not so much for others; I wonder why...? You're right about doing an engine search; just wanted to see currently where peoples head is on the matter that's all.

 

Woke up.

 

Opened phone.

 

Saw this.

 

Thought 'fuck! Did js2 resurrect itself and start pumping shit back onto the internet?'

 

Realised it was just the regular refugees from there and went off to find bacon.

 

Have a good day folks.

 

Dude did you even read what I posted... I know the sarcasm can be at an all time high, but dam man, the refugee comment is a bit much don't you think?

 

 

To put things into perspective, the Saturn needed the RAM expansion cart to run Metal Slug and IIRC even Playstation games had animations cut for ported NeoGeo games. Id hate to see what these games would look like on a significantly less powerful system than those.

 

I hear both of you... At first I was thinking you could use the Jags 2MB of ram to leverage for some speed for graphics, but I guess that would prove highly challenging at best. There are the Saturn and PS1 CD player speeds to consider, but I can certainly see the obstacles for Neo Geo emulation... Still would be very cool to see.

Edited by philipj

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Getting the jRISCS to 'emulate' the rest of the Neo Geo is impractical and likely impossible as several people have suggested. Trying to emulate or simulate the Neo Geo and dump its screen 60 times per second just wouldn't happen. Could the Jag natively throw around as many sprites as some Neo Geo games? Sure, at least from what I've seen. With RAM and ROM limitations (just for starters, never mind bus speed and game logic) the Jag likely would struggle with some Neo Geo games. But I won't speculate beyond that because personal, work, study/research, and business reasons prevent me from diving into RB+ (for the next few months, after that who knows... ;) ). But I don't presume to know better than people who actually know.

 

What I'd do (and suggest anyone with more time than me do) is to grab some sprites from here https://www.spriters-resource.com/neo_geo_ngcd/, then find the sounds, and then code something up in RB+. Anything. Rather than speculate, go do it. Much more productive than telling those who are intimately familiar with the system what it can or cannot do. If you can put together complex music using mod trackers philipj, you'll cope with Basic programming easily. I'm far from a great coder (mostly self-taught), yet I teach it, and have done so for nearly 20 years. If I can, anyone can.

 

 

I appreciate that Skip...! Very encouraging stuff; thanks a bunch. I never thought of it in that way about programming and mod trackers; it makes perfect sense after reading it. Also thanks for the link... Was looking at all of the animation work done on Metal Slug 3 admiring the level of art work put into the making of that game. Very cool stuff. :thumbsup:

Edited by philipj

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It sounds like we can never be friends... the ONLY answer is Brown!

 

;) :D

I fear the answer may lie in my works canteen...

 

As the weather turns colder, bacon butties have become my breakfast of choice.

 

The sachets of brown sauce they sell are awful compared to the tomato.

 

My taste buds now simply recoil at the thought of brown sauce :-))

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Get yerself a nice squeezy bottle of HP (or HP Fruity, if you um, feel more fruity :D ), and revive those poor tastebuds!!

 

Love a bit of proper HP :-D

 

Used to love Daddies Sauce, but has that been discontinued?

 

Not seen it for years.

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Not sure, when I am out on the planes hunting sauce I only notice the herds of HP and target those, I ignore the lesser sauces.

 

Daddies was an OK runner up in times of extreme crisis.

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I'd settle for Daddies.

 

Quite often in past few months i would drive home from a 12 hr night shift (extra 35-40 mins), just longing for my bed...

 

But nope..bacon butty...then bed.

 

Priorities are important.

 

Sometimes.. even delay bed long enough to do toasted bacon sandwich..

 

Would always wash it down with cup of PG tea..again there..has to be PG..

 

Your Typhoo or Yorkshire tea, never mind own bloody brand supermarket type..just not going to cut it.

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Something that was fond memories for me, but not so much for others; I wonder why...?

There's a pretty strong correlation between "having fond memories of JS2" and "liking to read/post bullshit again and again". I wonder why?
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So usually in these types of threads, people talk about Gouraud-shading and texture mapping... in other words, what kind of 3D could the Jaguar have put out.

 

What I consider a more interesting question is: what could the Jaguar have done as a 2D machine?

 

Rayman is a great looking game. Raiden has swarms full of sprites with no slowdown. Super Burnout has arguably the best 2D SuperScaler-style graphics ever. So what was the upper limit of the Jag's 2D capabilities? Could we have something like this?

 

 

Or this?

 

 

Or maybe even this?

 

 

I feel like the Jaguar's 3D capabilities have been thoroughly explored, but the 2D capabilities have barely been scratched. What have 2D homebrewers been able to squeeze out of the Jag in its afterlife?

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There's a pretty strong correlation between "having fond memories of JS2" and "liking to read/post bullshit again and again". I wonder why?

 

Well let me ask you this question... What have I done to you to deserve hostile language? I've been nothing but friendly to everyone I've met over here, yet I get nothing but the grief coming from you. Was it something I did or said or is the fact that I was JS2 regular...? I mean what's your problem? I've never insulted you, called you out of your name or posted smart remarks after a post is up. It's like your mimicking the avatar your using by stalking me whenever I post something; are you a stalker or you just get your rocks going after people you don't know for no good reason??? What gives?

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What I consider a more interesting question is: what could the Jaguar have done as a 2D machine?

 

Rayman is a great looking game. Raiden has swarms full of sprites with no slowdown. Super Burnout has arguably the best 2D SuperScaler-style graphics ever. So what was the upper limit of the Jag's 2D capabilities? Could we have something like this?

I'd be interested to see how far the Jaguar can be pushed from a 2D perspective, but it's highly unlikely to happen these days. Its library from back in the day definitely has some standouts as mentioned, but even they have their limitations and it's probably wise not to overstate their greatness. I'd be interested in hearing from the developers of those examples to get their take on what it took to get the level of performance that they did, and how much farther they think they could have gone.

 

Rayman is undoubtedly beautiful, but many of its backgrounds are relatively static without a lot of animations happening in them. Super Burnout has great scaling, but only a single column of roadside objects on each side of the screen. How would the performance fare if the amount of roadside objects was increased, ala Sega Super Scaler games? Raiden does have a lot going on, but runs at a significantly lower framerate than the arcade and PS1 versions (where they're locked at 60). As great as these games are, they each seem to have limitations in place that tend to go unacknowledged around here.

Edited by Austin
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Well let me ask you this question... What have I done to you to deserve hostile language? I've been nothing but friendly to everyone I've met over here, yet I get nothing but the grief coming from you. Was it something I did or said or is the fact that I was JS2 regular...? I mean what's your problem? I've never insulted you, called you out of your name or posted smart remarks after a post is up. It's like your mimicking the avatar your using by stalking me whenever I post something; are you a stalker or you just get your rocks going after people you don't know for no good reason??? What gives?

The problem is that you post bullshit. Friendly bullshit maybe, but still bullshit. And despite the fact that it's been pointed out to you several times, you keep doing it.

 

AtariAge is a forum, it's not your personal blog or Facebook page. There are more than enough people posting misinformation about the Jaguar already.

Edited by Zerosquare
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