Why XEGS when the 7800 already existed?

[Maury Markowitz]

I'm not sure there is a real answer to this, but maybe someone know:

 

The 7800 appears to be a great advance in graphics over the 8-bit line, especially due to its improved sprite handling.

 

So why, then, did the XEGS ever become a product? They already had the 7800 on the market for a very low cost.

 

[+pboland]

My understanding was Atari (at the time) still had a lot of 8-bit computer inventory and wanted to move it. I can say that at the time I wanted an XEGS over the 7800 do to the amount of available games. I didn't get one back in the day (I already had a master system). But I did get an XEGS in the late 90's and find myself playing the XEGS more than the 7800. The XEGS is really the Atari 5200 done right IMHO.

[Rick Dangerous]

The XEGS is really the Atari 5200 done right IMHO.

 

Concur 100%. And the deepest library of any Atari console save for the 2600 to boot.

[Swami]

I'm not sure there is a real answer to this, but maybe someone know:

 

The 7800 appears to be a great advance in graphics over the 8-bit line, especially due to its improved sprite handling.

 

So why, then, did the XEGS ever become a product? They already had the 7800 on the market for a very low cost.

 

It was a year and a half later release date, so maybe meant as a successor and had 64K RAM. The XE computers were designed as super low priced computers for the newly open Eastern European market after the XLs were apparently beaten by the C64 and new Atari management wanted to go back to gaming from the computer focus of Tramiel. - All this from Wikipedia.

 

I would pick an 800XL over an XEGS. If you want two button controller games, I think the Amigas were much more prolific at it than the 8-bit computers.

 

Edit: I have a 7800, 800XL and an XEGS. I bought the XEGS because myatari was selling them new for a good price.

[BassGuitari]

IIRC the short answer is: to convert excess stock of XL software, hardware, and components into revenue, with the XEGS in particular essentially amounting to a scheme to get the platform into stores that ordinarily wouldn't have stocked computers.

 

It was a year and a half later release date, so maybe meant as a successor and had 64K RAM. The XE computers were designed as super low priced computers for the newly open Eastern European market after the XLs were apparently beaten by the C64 and new Atari management wanted to go back to gaming from the computer focus of Tramiel. - All this from Wikipedia.

 

I don't think that's true, or that there's anything to substantiate it. XE systems were dumped there (illegally, ahem), sure, but that's very different.

 

I'm not 100% on the "why?" of the 65XE and 130XE, but it follows that it was both to maintain aesthetic conformity with the flagship ST systems, and to keep the 400/800/XL line competitive. Atari Corp. relied heavily on aging, obsolescent systems* to support the company, and the XL/XE platform was still a very valuable asset into the late '80s.

 

*(Although, for context, quite a few of us here on AtariAge are probably posting with computers that are older than the 400/800/XL/XE line was when the XEGS came out. )

[DracIsBack]

Here's a good article from Atari's Neil Harris from 1987, regarding the 8Bit line and the launch of the XEGS. I don't agree with all the logic, but it's a good read to get some perspective as to why they went that route.

 

--------------

 

We come again to that perpetual question: is Atari intent on killing the
8-bits?

One way to answer that would be to give you a tour of our warehouse. If you
could see the number of 8-bit computers and software in inventory, you'd
know we are highly motivated to keep the line going.

Regarding the new XE Game System, which on the first glance is a slap in
the face to those who know how powerful the 8-bitters are -- this system is
purely a strategic move on our part. In order to keep the 8-bit line going,
we must do two things:

1. Get the computers available in more stores, and
2. Get new software developed for them.

Software is not being developed by and large because of problem #1. So
which stores do we go to? The mass merchants, who sold the bulk of the
hundreds of thousands (not, unfortunately, millions) of Atari 8-bit
computers out there, are currently retreating from the computer business.
K-Mart carries NO computers. Ditto for Montgomery Wards. And for J.C.
Penney's.

On the other hand, these same stores are doing a fabulous business in game
systems like Nintendo, Sega, and, of course, Atari.

The solution, from a business point of view, was to develop a product that
would be appealing to the mass merchants (and also to the public which buys
there), one that also accomplishes the corporate objective of revitalizing
the 8-bit line.

So what we have with the XE Game System is essentially a 65XE in disguise.
Internally it contains 64K of RAM, the standard OS and BASIC in ROM, two
joystick ports, SIO port, etc. It is completely compatible with the current
8-bit line, including software.

Physically it is more appealing to those who don't want a computer but who
do want to play games. The main console simply has the 4 console keys from
the XE (Start, Select, Option, and Reset), plus the cartridge port and
connectors. The keyboard is a separate unit which plugs into the console.

When someone buys the XE Game System, they get the complete package --
console, keyboard, light gun, and 3 programs (including a new version of
Sublogic's Flight Simulator including scenery, all on a single cartridge).

We expect stores to do a great business in these. We'll make available the
current library of cartridge software, plus we're converting some disk
programs into cartridge format for this system. As time goes by, we expect
to see dramatic increases in sales for 8-bit software -- hopefully, this
will also include practical applications as well as games. This should in
turn encourage developers to create new titles for the 8-bits.

Once things get moving again in the mass merchants, the current supply of
8-bit computers should also get moving through the dealers -- after all,
they make a better value than the game systems, and take up less space.

So, those few of you out there who are looking at Atari management as the
evil group who are plotting to quash the 8-bit line, you have it all wrong.
We're trying hard to keep things moving forward. Without the distribution
and the software, no amount of advertising and new hardware development
could work. The XE Game System is our best hope to keep things moving.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

[Zonie]

The XEGS is really the Atari 5200 done right IMHO.

X3 on this.

[pacman000]

How well did the XEGS sell anyways? It obviously didn't revitalize the 8-bit line as they hoped, but did it at least make a profit?

[empsolo]

How well did the XEGS sell anyways? It obviously didn't revitalize the 8-bit line as they hoped, but did it at least make a profit?

Nobody knows because Atari Corp lumped the 2600, 5200, 7800, and XEGS in together in sales figures.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jinks]

I'm not sure there is a real answer to this, but maybe someone know:

 

The 7800 appears to be a great advance in graphics over the 8-bit line, especially due to its improved sprite handling.

 

So why, then, did the XEGS ever become a product? They already had the 7800 on the market for a very low cost.

 

Dumber yet is they made a 5200 AND a XEGS and multiple computers that did the same thing(except ram sizes)

[+sixersfan105]

How well did the XEGS sell anyways? It obviously didn't revitalize the 8-bit line as they hoped, but did it at least make a profit?

Not sure on total sales, but per an article that appeared in Antic way back in 1988, Atari sold all 100,000 of its launch consoles during the holiday season of 1987, which was its target number. Here's the article:

 

https://www.atarimagazines.com/v7n1/marketplace.html

[Lastblade]

I also remember the MSRPs were vastly different. The 7800 was around $80, while the XEGS was almost doubled at $150. 7800 was a NES competitor while the XEGS is more toward the computer/higher end crowd.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Lastblade

[zzip]

I'm not sure there is a real answer to this, but maybe someone know:

 

The 7800 appears to be a great advance in graphics over the 8-bit line, especially due to its improved sprite handling.

 

So why, then, did the XEGS ever become a product? They already had the 7800 on the market for a very low cost.

Always seemed like a quick cash grab to me. It made no sense as they were pushing two incompatible consoles, harming their own potential market share.

 

I remember it being pretty controversial when announced.

[MrMaddog]

The way it was marketed was this...

 

2600 for the low end, mostly to play carts sold at yard sales

 

7800 for the mid range to compete against the NES

 

And XEGS as the high end system that can also be used as a home computer.

 

 

Of course it didn't work against Nintendo's single game console but they tried at least...

[BassGuitari]

Dumber yet is they made a 5200 AND a XEGS and multiple computers that did the same thing(except ram sizes)

 

Atari Corp. didn't manufacture any 5200 hardware or games. They only sold old inherited stock.

 

One way to think of the videogame side of Atari Corp. (as opposed to the ST/computer side, although this applies to the XE line as well) is that they were basically like Telegames except that they also produced and/or released new games, and even a couple of systems (XEGS, Lynx). A big part of their business was essentially liquidation.

Edited July 18, 2018 by BassGuitari

[DracIsBack]

 

Atari Corp. didn't manufacture any 5200 hardware or games. They only sold old inherited stock.

 

There are 5200 games that are copyright 1986

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/168-5200-cartridges-in-1986/

[+GoldenWheels]

"Physically it is more appealing to those who don't want a computer but who
do want to play games. The main console simply has the 4 console keys from
the XE (Start, Select, Option, and Reset), plus the cartridge port and
connectors. The keyboard is a separate unit which plugs into the console.

When someone buys the XE Game System, they get the complete package --
console, keyboard, light gun, and 3 programs (including a new version of
Sublogic's Flight Simulator including scenery, all on a single cartridge)."

 

He acknowledges the stores are doing "fabulous business in "games systems" from Nintendo, Sega, and Atari. The stores don't even want to touch computer stuff. IMO most younger kids of the time didn't either.

 

Yet they include a keyboard (extra cost) and a frakkin flight simulator game (which just screams excitement to kids) as the pack in. IF YOU WANT A GAMES SYSTEM, JUST GO ALL THE WAY--DUMP THE KEYBOARD, AND INCLUDE AN ARCADE GAME AS THE PACK IN!!!! Then, it just might have been the 5200 done right.

 

I will always recall wanting a NES for xmas and getting the XE instead. My parents told me they chose it over the NES as they wanted me to learn computers (so the lame combo approach did work on somebody!). I did one seagull BASIC program and that was the extent of my computering on the thing. Then I lusted after the NES until the next Xmas.

[pacman000]

I get the 2600 Jr; most systems have a cut-down version at the end of their life. (PSOne; NES 2; SNES 2; Genessis 3; PS2 Slim, etc.)

 

"Physically it is more appealing to those who don't want a computer but who
do want to play games. The main console simply has the 4 console keys from
the XE (Start, Select, Option, and Reset), plus the cartridge port and
connectors. The keyboard is a separate unit which plugs into the console.

When someone buys the XE Game System, they get the complete package --
console, keyboard, light gun, and 3 programs (including a new version of
Sublogic's Flight Simulator including scenery, all on a single cartridge)."

 

He acknowledges the stores are doing "fabulous business in "games systems" from Nintendo, Sega, and Atari. The stores don't even want to touch computer stuff. IMO most younger kids of the time didn't either.

 

Yet they include a keyboard (extra cost) and a frakkin flight simulator game (which just screams excitement to kids) as the pack in. IF YOU WANT A GAMES SYSTEM, JUST GO ALL THE WAY--DUMP THE KEYBOARD, AND INCLUDE AN ARCADE GAME AS THE PACK IN!!!! Then, it just might have been the 5200 done right.

 

I will always recall wanting a NES for xmas and getting the XE instead. My parents told me they chose it over the NES as they wanted me to learn computers (so the lame combo approach did work on somebody!). I did one seagull BASIC program and that was the extent of my computering on the thing. Then I lusted after the NES until the next Xmas.

Trying to avoid the mistake Commodore would make with the C64GS? I heard a lot of games were unplayable because they needed keyboard input to start the game. If this was a quick way to get systems on shelves selling a keyboard was probably cheaper then re-programming hundreds of games.

 

I liked flight sims as a kid.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

 

Trying to avoid the mistake Commodore would make with the C64GS? I heard a lot of games were unplayable because they needed keyboard input to start the game. If this was a quick way to get systems on shelves selling a keyboard was probably cheaper then re-programming hundreds of games.

 

I liked flight sims as a kid.

 

Well I think that is a matter of just vetting the games correctly in the first place....this was designed to be a games system, and if they're really competing with Nintendo and Sega, that means cartridges. That already cleans up a lot of the keyboard needs. AFAIK the commodore systems never had the huge cartridge base that the Ataris did, it was mostly disk (memories of my friends C64 being my only reference, I admit) so to me that is a killer bad decision for Commodore, but not for Atari.

 

I wouldn't have reprogrammed anything....I'd just stick to releasing games which didn't need the keyboard, which is what the NES and SEGA sales should have lead them to anyway...no keyboards there. I don't recall how many of the re-released blue box games needed the board, but I recall most of the ones I had working completely without it.

 

And you may have liked flight sims as a kid, but as you know they were slow, highly technical affairs (as I recall the flight sim in my XE pack came with actual maps and a thick spiral bound manual for gods sakes) which really just reinforced "this is a computer", when their whole angle was supposed to be competing with games systems in Kay Bee. I can't think of anything that is actually a 'game' of some form which screams "this is a computer" more than a flight sim!

 

Throw Joust in that sumbitch and call it a day!

[BassGuitari]

 

There are 5200 games that are copyright 1986

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/168-5200-cartridges-in-1986/

 

I was waiting for someone to chime in with this.

 

1986 was when Atari Corp. packaged and released them. Every 5200 game sold by Atari Corp. was developed years earlier by Atari Inc.; some, like Ballblazer, Rescue On Fractalus, and Gremlins were caught in the Crash and went unreleased until Atari Corp. got ahold of them and released them. Additionally, no Atari Corp. 5200 game you actually fire up will show a date later than 1984 on the splash screen.

 

This is corroborated in literally the first reply in the thread you linked:

 

"Atari re-distributed 5200 games in 1986 like they did with the 2600. AFAIK they never redistributed the 5200 units themselves. It's interesting to note that it was during this time that Gremlins finally hit the shelves even though it was ready in 84. Apperently it had just been released to manufacturing the day before the Tremiels took over so it was too late to stop it from being produced. They must have had thousands of Gremlins carts ready to go and just sat on them for 2 years until 86."

 

(EDIT regarding Tempest's old quote: Atari Corp. did redistribute 5200 consoles--in fact, I own one. And the "just sat on [Gremlins] for 2 years" is an old half-truth; Atari Corp. didn't actually legally have it until '86, but the game was indeed dormant somewhere until then.)

Edited July 18, 2018 by BassGuitari

[DracIsBack]

 

I was waiting for someone to chime in with this.

 

1986 was when Atari Corp. packaged and released them. Every 5200 game sold by Atari Corp. was developed years earlier by Atari Inc.; some, like Ballblazer, Rescue On Fractalus, and Gremlins were caught in the Crash and went unreleased until Atari Corp. got ahold of them and released them. Additionally, no Atari Corp. 5200 game you actually fire up will show a date later than 1984 on the splash screen.

 

This is corroborated in literally the first reply in the thread you linked:

 

"Atari re-distributed 5200 games in 1986 like they did with the 2600. AFAIK they never redistributed the 5200 units themselves. It's interesting to note that it was during this time that Gremlins finally hit the shelves even though it was ready in 84. Apperently it had just been released to manufacturing the day before the Tremiels took over so it was too late to stop it from being produced. They must have had thousands of Gremlins carts ready to go and just sat on them for 2 years until 86."

 

(EDIT regarding Tempest's old quote: Atari Corp. did redistribute 5200 consoles--in fact, I own one. And the "just sat on [Gremlins] for 2 years" is an old half-truth; Atari Corp. didn't actually legally have it until '86, but the game was indeed dormant somewhere until then.)

 

Hmm ... so the only thing they manufactured was the packaging.

[mbd30]

How well did the XEGS sell anyways? It obviously didn't revitalize the 8-bit line as they hoped, but did it at least make a profit?

 

As a kid in the early 80s I had an Atari 2600 and then upgraded to 7800 before getting a NES.

 

I'd never even heard of the XEGS at the time. I learned about it on the internet. It's even more obscure than the 7800. It couldn't have sold that well.

[BassGuitari]

 

Hmm ... so the only thing they manufactured was the packaging.

 

Exactly.

[+pboland]

I'd never even heard of the XEGS at the time. I learned about it on the internet. It's even more obscure than the 7800. It couldn't have sold that well.

 

I remember seeing the XEGS at Children's Palace toy stores back in the day and I clearing remember the commercial advert for the XEGS because it ran along side the NES and Sega commercials on USA's Cartoon Express.

 

As to how well it sold. If you are comparing it to the overall market at the time, your right it most likely didn't sell well. I have a feeling however that it sold well enough for Atari and I'm sure they made money on it. I believe that was the entire marketing strategy Atari had at that time. As long as it makes money. That also explains why they had three different systems on the market at the say time. They were just trying to get as much of a foot hold in the video game market as they could.

 

As a person that owned a Sega Master System BITD, I thought Sega was #2 next to NES. Sega ran almost as many commercials and had fairly good magazine coverage BITD. I later found out (after the web) Atari was actually #2 during that time. Why? mainly because they had three different systems that they lumped together sales of to show how much of a percentage of the market they "owned". Looking back at it now, we tend to think, "How could Atari be so stupid as to compete with itself"?. That's wasn't what they were doing. They were shoving this stuff out because they could and it made them money and in the end that what mattered to keep them afloat. I would bet the XEGS sold fairly well for Atari overall, but then again they most likely didn't make as many as the 2600jr or the 7800.

[DracIsBack]

I would bet the XEGS sold fairly well for Atari overall, but then again they most likely didn't make as many as the 2600jr or the 7800.

 

I don't know. I remember when Curt shared the cartridge sales for the XEGS a while back, the sales of games were typically pretty abysmal. Couple that with the fact that Atari Corp got into the XEGS after the 7800 and 2600 jr and basically wound down software dev first (many games intended for like 1989 release were cancelled) says to me that the sales really weren't that good for it.