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Why XEGS when the 7800 already existed?


Maury Markowitz

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I don't know. Slow down always annoyed me, but I played a lot of games back in the 8 and 16 bit days with slowdown and was just like "oh, this game has slowdown." I don't really remember it being a make-or-break proposition until it came to the Genesis beating the SNES in sports games. I think the fps thing is a modern re-reading of how most kids would have seen things back then.

I grew up with 8-bit and 16-bit, and occasional slowdown certainly was a way of life. But, the footage used in the ad goes beyond mere slowdown and looks like something slightly less fun than watching paint dry. It's a poor look for the XEGS vs. the NES, even if it is technically more "advanced."

Edited by King Atari
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When I had my XEGS I tried, really tried to "play" Flight Simulator II but with 90 pages of instructions + an extra book on flight I decided I had better things to do with my time.

Unexpectedly I actually enjoyed Bug Hunt with the light gun, it's just too similar as you progress, they should have added more variety and it would have been much more fun.

 

Again, if you want to enjoy an XEGS treat is an an 800XL, take advantage of the peripherals that have been built and go to town, there's plenty to be enjoyed, but as a "console" in '87 it was just not there (PCE was out that year and in 88 the MegaDrive came), and as a computer Atari ST and Amiga 500 were out so not a chance .... it was literally too late on all fronts (for sure targeted at the budget market and/or "it's more than a game" market).

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I had FSII for the Apple II at that time and it ran basically the same. I dealt with it, but in no way was I *happy* with the slowdown. I would often seek out areas in the game where it would run more smoothly (it would bog down predictably in areas with literally two or more buildings, or a large airport). But the point is I definitely noticed the slowdown and did not just accept it. I would have upgraded to a faster CPU, faster machine or whatever I could have afforded to get rid of it.

 

And MSFS (which this was a port of) was already a well known computer game at the time, since 1982. That's what Atari's trying to trade off of here in the first place - they know people know what it is. But MSFS ran *much better* on the PC, and we all knew it. These commercials may actually be the first documented example of console inferiority to the PC.

 

Now, nobody's going to run out and buy a $3,000 PC instead of a $300 XEGS just to play MSFS. But the weird thing is that Atari tried to use this as a selling point. And in 1987! They're basically saying "look, you can play this several year-old game that runs a lot better on PC, along with some really old arcade games!" And that's just a really bizarre marketing message that I'm not surprised wasn't successful.

 

They should have picked a different pack-in, or just de-emphasized it in the commercials. But then, what could they have emphasized in the commercials, at that point? I dunno. It was 1987 and by then they were going up against 2 years' worth of NES stuff - and to me, those were the NES' best years, with SMB, Excitebike, Metroid, Castlevania, Zelda, plus a ton of other games (including a lot of more recent arcade ports than Missile Command). I don't think the best or only alternative was going up against 5 year old PC games, though, especially when the XEGS didn't even come out on the favorable side of that comparison, and especially when that same game was not even new to the XEGS (it was on the Atari 8 bits in 1984).

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I think the point of Flight Simulator II was to showcase the XEGS's versatility. Goofy commercials notwithstanding, I think the point of Flight Simulator II was really less about the game itself than demonstrating the sophistication the XEGS could achieve.

 

Each of the XEGS's pack-in games used a different one of its controller types. Bug Hunt was the bandwagon light gun game, Flight Simulator II was the computer game (which is code for "keyboard"), and Missile Command was the arcade game for joystick jockeys. Pretty good starter pack to give you a taste of the system's flexibility, although if it were up to me I'd have gone with Star Raiders II or Rescue On Fractalus as the "sophisticated computer flight sim" pack-in instead of Flight Simulator II......and I wouldn't have gone with a Trak-Ball game to show off the joystick. ;) :P

 

(Speaking of, how cool would it have been if the XEGS keyboard had a little roller ball integrated into it, like the ones that started appearing in laptops not long after? :-D )

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I think the point of Flight Simulator II was to showcase the XEGS's versatility. Goofy commercials notwithstanding, I think the point of Flight Simulator II was really less about the game itself than demonstrating the sophistication the XEGS could achieve.

 

Each of the XEGS's pack-in games used a different one of its controller types. Bug Hunt was the bandwagon light gun game, Flight Simulator II was the computer game (which is code for "keyboard"), and Missile Command was the arcade game for joystick jockeys. Pretty good starter pack to give you a taste of the system's flexibility, although if it were up to me I'd have gone with Star Raiders II or Rescue On Fractalus as the "sophisticated computer flight sim" pack-in instead of Flight Simulator II......and I wouldn't have gone with a Trak-Ball game to show off the joystick. ;) :P

 

(Speaking of, how cool would it have been if the XEGS keyboard had a little roller ball integrated into it, like the ones that started appearing in laptops not long after? :-D )

 

I think you are right. They should have went with Star Raiders II instead of Flight Simulator II. It would have made for a much better commercial and at first glance would have made the system look closer to the NES. A much faster paced game that would have fit better in that time frame. If they really wanted to show off the computer aspect of the console, they should have just showed a kid writing a program in basic and then typing RUN and it would be some rudimentary arcade game. You could have shown that in 3 seconds.

 

I really think Atari should have packed the XEGS with a 2 button controller. Even if there were just grey 7800 pro controllers. I know most don't like them, but they really should have packed in a two button controller. Reason being is, they already knew that it's what modern systems had at the time (7800, SMS, NES). The best option would have been the 7800 euro pad (in XEGS grey of course). Again I know these aren't as good as the NES controllers, but it would have fit with Atari's recycling of products at the time and would have made the system look more modern. Yes, even if they didn't plan on having games that used the second button.

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The CX78 "Europad" seems like it should have been a natural choice. It even has some of that signature XE (and ST) aesthetic philosophy going on with the 45-/135-degree lines. It almost seems like the controller was designed with those systems in mind.

 

I wonder if it was actually intended to be a sort of "universal" game controller. It was the only one Atari Corp. actually designed themselves as far as I can tell, and it fits with each of their game platforms and computers--at least functionally, if not also aesthetically (as it does with the XE/GS and ST systems; less so with the 2600jr. and 7800, but still somewhat).

 

Aesthetically, the CX78 is like a compromise between the case designs of each of Atari Corp.'s console and computer platforms. It complements each of them in some way (the lines of the XE, the black of the the 2600jr. and 7800, the independent fire buttons of the 7800; even the gray of the D-pad/Thumbstick suggests the XE/ST, IMO).

 

Odd that Atari Corp. opted not to include it with the XEGS. Or, really, even market it in North America at all. It was "advertised" on the side of some of the boxes for their controllers, and I guess it could be ordered, but that was about the extent of its visibility here. It might have appeared in one of those goofy catalog poster illustrations as well, but that's about it.

Edited by BassGuitari
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The CX78 "Europad" seems like it should have been a natural choice. It even has some of that signature XE (and ST) aesthetic philosophy going on with the 45-/135-degree lines. It almost seems like the controller was designed with those systems in mind.

 

I wonder if it was actually intended to be a sort of "universal" game controller. It was the only one Atari Corp. actually designed themselves as far as I can tell, and it fits with each of their game platforms and computers--at least functionally, if not also aesthetically (as it does with the XE/GS and ST systems; less so with the 2600jr. and 7800, but still somewhat).

 

Aesthetically, the CX78 is like a compromise between the case designs of each of Atari Corp.'s console and computer platforms. It complements each of them in some way (the lines of the XE, the black of the the 2600jr. and 7800, the independent fire buttons of the 7800; even the gray of the D-pad/Thumbstick suggests the XE/ST, IMO).

 

Odd that Atari Corp. opted not to include it with the XEGS. Or, really, even market it in North America at all. It was "advertised" on the side of some of the boxes for their controllers, and I guess it could be ordered, but that was about the extent of its visibility here. It might have appeared in one of those goofy catalog poster illustrations as well, but that's about it.

 

Something like this would have worked:

@BassGuitari: Your right, it's styled to match the XE/ST lines. Now that I see the controller it even looks like a mini XEGS. :)

 

post-9874-0-05798000-1532458116_thumb.jpg

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I still remember seeing that ad with the little boy 'excitedly' playing flight Simulator II and thinking "yeah ... ok".

 

I got what they were trying to do. I just don't think it worked. Very few would have found Flight Simulator II 'fun' (as opposed to sophisticated). Missile Command looked its very old age. And Bug Hunt was a throwaway title, IMO.

 

I thought they should have packed Karateka or something with the XEGS

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FSII was probably the most sophisticated program I ran routinely on my Apple ][e back in the early 1980s. I read the manuals, learned about aircraft performance and navigation using this simulator. In the day, there was nothing close to its realism. I loved it. Flying SubLogic FS and later FSII led to a lifelong flying career.

 

Let me take you back to the 1980s...

 

Frame rate didn’t matter because FSII had color and wasn’t B&W wire diagram looking. Sure, slow as molasses frame rate made landing nearly impossible. Still...taking off and circumnavigating the Sear Tower was amazing!

 

The pack-in was probably meant to differentiate the console with NES which couldn’t run serious simulators.

 

I recently acquired an XEGS which I knew very little about. Was I delighted to find Flight Sim II inside? Hell yes! Light gun? Pass. Mine’s still in the original foam packaging.

 

Probably not a great marketing move to include FSII when the XEGS was released. I’m sure I was in the minority loving this game more than Mario Brothers, text adventures, and every RPG combined.

 

Just to clarify the record here: FSII had its fans back in the 1980s and nothing in the genre was better.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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I remember to this day seeing the apple 2 playing flight sim at a teachers house we were all amazed... I wanted a game like that later got a tandy 1000 to play flight sims on. Sure beat baby mario games to me.

See...maybe I am a true geeknerd?

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I still remember seeing that ad with the little boy 'excitedly' playing flight Simulator II and thinking "yeah ... ok".

 

I got what they were trying to do. I just don't think it worked. Very few would have found Flight Simulator II 'fun' (as opposed to sophisticated). Missile Command looked its very old age. And Bug Hunt was a throwaway title, IMO.

 

I thought they should have packed Karateka or something with the XEGS

 

one of those commercials was "flight simulator II!!!!!!! OMFG GET YOUR WILLY OUT BOYZ WE GOT FLIGHT SIMULATOR FUCKING II"

 

shows image of twin towers, 5 seconds later it updates

 

keep in mind that the microsoft flight sim would run at like 12 fps on a 7mhz turbo XT, and I bought 2 of them for 50 bucks in 1989 with 1 monitor and keyboard though the local paper, and the XEGS was almost the cost of a sega genesis at that time as well (someone got a summer job and worked their ass off to have a personal computer and a next gen game machine)

 

also someone said in this thread no one would pay 3 grand to play flight simulator ... yea they would just like people today would make entire realistic cockpits in their house to play flight simulator ot entire racing setups with VR gear just to play project cars

Edited by Osgeld
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FSII was probably the most sophisticated program I ran routinely on my Apple ][e back in the early 1980s. I read the manuals, learned about aircraft performance and navigation using this simulator. In the day, there was nothing close to its realism. I loved it. Flying SubLogic FS and later FSII led to a lifelong flying career.

 

Let me take you back to the 1980s...

 

You don't need to. I lived it. And while I have no doubt there were fans of it (I knew one or two), most people that I knew who played it found it dull and uninteresting quickly. Very much catering to a niche, not a mass market, console selling packing.

 

Certainly not a packin to rival Super Mario that shipped with the NES.

Edited by DracIsBack
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You don't need to. I lived it. And while I have no doubt there were fans of it (I knew one or two), most people that I knew who played it found it dull and uninteresting quickly. Very much catering to a niche, not a mass market, console selling packing.

 

Certainly not a packin to rival Super Mario that shipped with the NES.

I dunno, I think if we looked at the all-time sales numbers between the Flight Simulator and and Mario franchises, they would be quite similar! ;)

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Atari clearly was not going to outdo Nintendo's Super Mario Bros with anything as a launch pack in for the XEGS.

FS II, while clearly not the direct competitor to Mario, offered product differentiation.

 

Just saw this article, and it made me think this this thread:

 

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All I know is that I played Food Fight on the 7800 and the 8-bit, and the 7800 version is the better one, by far.

 

It was made by GCC, who made the 7800 hardware. The 8bit one was likely a quick port. Same problem that many 7800 games had in reverse where Atari licensed existing disk code for the XE (and slapped it on cartridges) while paying a cheap software house to port the 7800 version.

 

Same issue with Desert Falcon, IIRC.

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If you look at Jack Tramiel's product philosophy at commodore with things like the c16, plus4 and other screwy machines , he would try and fill every niche he could think of. I have a feeling this philosophy is why he released so many products during the time, if he thought it could fill a niche, he would try and fill it. What that niche was, I don't know.

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If you look at Jack Tramiel's product philosophy at commodore with things like the c16, plus4 and other screwy machines , he would try and fill every niche he could think of. I have a feeling this philosophy is why he released so many products during the time, if he thought it could fill a niche, he would try and fill it. What that niche was, I don't know.

For a guy who believed that Business is war, Jack didn’t seem to realize that it should be quality over quantity. The more I read about him, the more I’m coming to belief that the guy was a one trick pony who happened to luck into the early success that was commodore.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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When I had my XEGS I tried, really tried to "play" Flight Simulator II but with 90 pages of instructions + an extra book on flight I decided I had better things to do with my time.

Unexpectedly I actually enjoyed Bug Hunt with the light gun, it's just too similar as you progress, they should have added more variety and it would have been much more fun.

 

They also could have added more colors. The monochrome graphics are really drab and ugly looking. Was that supposed to compete with Duck Hunt on the NES?

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They also could have added more colors. The monochrome graphics are really drab and ugly looking. Was that supposed to compete with Duck Hunt on the NES?

 

That's unfortunately a problem with a few other XEGS games like Midnight Magic and Lode Runner, also. All that pink and green...yech.

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It is easy to know why Tramiel failed when he took over Atari - when the XE line of 8-bit computers was introduced along with the XEGS. New hardware (although it's compatible with the older 400/800 Atari computers) requires new software - especially quality software - i.e. high quality games to keep its buyers happy.

Tramiel didn't seem to encourage new software development - by spending the money required to do so. Sure - it was locked out by Nintendo having it's exclusive agreements and licensing - but perhaps it should have encouraged the new Atari enthusiasts to provide some support? Like the old APX program?

The XEGS required the best of the best A8 games to be readily available for it - the likes of Encounter, Dropzone - and others...And should have been featured in the advertising.

 

Consumers are interested in the software support - that new games are required all the time - that it's always the software that sells the hardware. Nintendo drove this point home obviously. It developed their own line of software that showed innovation and long term playability. You have only to try any of their iconic games to see this.

 

Harvey

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