1088XLD - Custom A8 Computer in 1050 Drive Case

[+mytek]

I guess were all in the same boat. I have +6 contacts already but definitly need reading glasses and I think this tool is one of the best ones I have bought recently:

 

http://s.aliexpress.com/mqyIJfEZI

 

I figured Id only needed it for SMD soldering but I find myself doing ALL solder work with it now.

Takes a bit of practice as its of course 2D but wouldnt want to have to do without it anymore.

 

Michael, will the 1088XLD use DIN 13 socket for Sophia RGB output like 1088XEL ?

 

Also: will the socket plus clock generator height be higher than the height of ANTIC/SALLY plus socket ?

You might want to try that link again. I'm thinking it might be one of those microscope like things using a CCD and a LCD screen?

 

No the standard configuration is with the two SIO ports and a DIN-5 video connector (same as a stock Atari). However there will be a set of mounting holes superimposed where the upper SIO port is, that would be for mounting a Sophia DVI connector board or could facilitate some other style connector board such as the DIN-13. Of course you will have to give up one SIO port.

 

Not sure about the clock generator height vs the Antic or CPU with socket height. So I'll have to check that out. However there's lots of vertical room, and one can always stack another machine pin socket for those devices (something that commonly has to be done for Sophia, or the newest TK-II piggyback version anyway).

[+mytek]

...you suggested to keep the LED but maybe it's nice to replace it with an RGB one to indicate some different states of stuff inside with different colors ?

I like this, but I think I will limit it to a bi-color LED, with the Green color being the Power ON indicator, and Red being CF drive activity. Yellow (red+green) would be standby Swap Latched, indicating that power is available, but the system isn't turned on.

 

Edit: changed the Yellow indication and associated it with the CF circuit (see schematic below).

 

 

/SWAP-SW will be controlled by the TK-II and triggered by pressing the 'Window Key' on the PS/2 keyboard.

 

[+mytek]

Oh and I notice still 9VAC input....yeah an internal AC to DC converter is a great idea when re-using the original 1050 PSU, but maybe make it also possible wo simply provide 5V DC ? I can imagine many people would prefer to use a modern day PSU or an old 5VDC (Atari) computer supply ?

 

Just saw this when reviewing the topic.

 

I think you'll find just as many people that prefer the original Atari branded supply as well. Besides it just adds to the retro aspect and stays in tune with overall theme. And lastly it allows for a regulated 12 VDC supply to be onboard which gets routed to the SIO ports just like the 400/800 series, to the MPBI+, and will be available on an internal 4 pin header along with 5 VDC and ground to be used for whatever???

[seastalker]

Wow - Ok, I love that there is a new A8 board but wouldn't want one in the original form factor, though fully see why that choice was made. I adore this design as it is closer to my ultimate wishlist of a drop in replacement to an XL case. Great work!

[+bf2k+]

WAY COOL!!!

 

I know I have at least one non-working 1050 around here...

[+mytek]

Wow - Ok, I love that there is a new A8 board but wouldn't want one in the original form factor, though fully see why that choice was made. I adore this design as it is closer to my ultimate wishlist of a drop in replacement to an XL case. Great work!

 

Actually this is not in the 'original' form factor for any computer that Atari ever made. It is an entirely new form factor based on re-utilizing an Atari 1050 drive case. It is not a remake of a 1050 motherboard, nor is it a remake of any Atari 8-bit computer motherboard. It is simply a re-imagining that is more closely linked to the 1088XEL in functionality, but done in a form factor that will allow it to drop into a 1050 case for that retro 'XL' look.

 

Here's a more recent look at where this is going...

 

 

The Interface Board is piggybacked onto the main board using an extended 2x13 pin header, so that it'll line up with a custom front panel in elevation, taking the place of the 1050's floppy drive. It provides standard Dsub-9 Joystick ports, PS/2 connectors for the keyboard and mouse, a 3.5 mm Stereo Audio Out Jack, and various status LEDs.

 

The Audio/Video DIN-13 connector is back, now providing all of the video signals from both the UAV and an optional Sophia RGB or VBXE upgrade. I still need to drop in the various pin headers to allow connection of these device's RGB outputs and whatever signals they require that can not be obtained from piggybacking the chips they mount to. It also provides the Stereo Audio outputs in parallel to the ones offered on the front panel 3.5 mm headphone jack.

 

The IDE port is identical to the XEL-CF3 pinout, and will be cabled over to the CF-IDE44 Adapter board, which will get mounted to the front panel utilizing the Right Angle Mounting Board.

 

The Cartridge connection will require a Right Angle Adapter Board in order to line up properly with the front panel, and it will need to get some sort of plastic 3D printed Cart Guide as well.

 

 

WAY COOL!!!

 

I know I have at least one non-working 1050 around here...

 

Yeah I figured there would be quite a few of these around, with probably at least one non-working unit in an avid collectors hands.

[seastalker]

Hey mytek, thanks for the amazing work you do. I think you might have misconstrued my comment. I was referring to the the original 1088XEL shape and design and the discussion pages of ITX (or ATX) case options. I am saying that the new design fitting the 1050 case is great because as much as I LOVE the original, I couldn't bite yet until a redesign of it fit something more familiar. I'm loving the 1050 redesign, but I feel if THIS is a thing, surely the next revision will be shaping the mobo to fit an:

 

1st choice: 800XL

2nd choice: 600XL

3rd Choice - ANY drop in replacement of A8.

 

In summary, my latching on to the 1088 ANYTHING projects is in hope of what the latest C64 scene has brought, namely Gidion's Ultimate 64 (FPGA Commodore 64 board to fit a real c64 case/keyboard) or JENS' Individual Computers MK2 board. So the Atari FPGA based Eclaire board is another near perfect "but I want to use my Atari 600xl/800xl case" scenario for me. Regardless of my comments, I am so much in respect of each and all mentioned creators and projects. UNTIL I have a drop in replacement board for SOME A8, I should point out a a rare combo that could work: PLEASE consider the work here: http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk

 

I have corresponded with the kind hearted owner of this. IF you convert an XL, IN THEORY, you have a USB XL that could plug into a MIST, yet ALSO any 1088XEL variation! The closest comparison in Atari world is the XEGS, but I feel it is closer to creating an Atari after-market equivalent of the Commodore 128D vs the 128... gut an Atari, but include a KEYBOARD to connect to a tower.

[Kyle22]

Nobody gives a shit about those old, slow Commies.

 

PoKey has beaten their shitty "SID" They have NOTHING that compares to a DLI, and their VIC SUCKS!

 

Give it up!

 

You LOSE!

 

-END-

[+mytek]

Hey mytek, thanks for the amazing work you do. I think you might have misconstrued my comment. I was referring to the the original 1088XEL shape and design and the discussion pages of ITX (or ATX) case options. I am saying that the new design fitting the 1050 case is great because as much as I LOVE the original, I couldn't bite yet until a redesign of it fit something more familiar. I'm loving the 1050 redesign, but I feel if THIS is a thing, surely the next revision will be shaping the mobo to fit an:

 

1st choice: 800XL

2nd choice: 600XL

3rd Choice - ANY drop in replacement of A8.

 

In summary, my latching on to the 1088 ANYTHING projects is in hope of what the latest C64 scene has brought, namely Gidion's Ultimate 64 (FPGA Commodore 64 board to fit a real c64 case/keyboard) or JENS' Individual Computers MK2 board. So the Atari FPGA based Eclaire board is another near perfect "but I want to use my Atari 600xl/800xl case" scenario for me. Regardless of my comments, I am so much in respect of each and all mentioned creators and projects. UNTIL I have a drop in replacement board for SOME A8, I should point out a a rare combo that could work: PLEASE consider the work here: http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk

 

I have corresponded with the kind hearted owner of this. IF you convert an XL, IN THEORY, you have a USB XL that could plug into a MIST, yet ALSO any 1088XEL variation! The closest comparison in Atari world is the XEGS, but I feel it is closer to creating an Atari after-market equivalent of the Commodore 128D vs the 128... gut an Atari, but include a KEYBOARD to connect to a tower.

 

No worries, I just wasn't sure if you understood where I was going with this project. BTW, this will probably be the last motherboard project for me, so someone else will have to create that 600/800XL drop-in replacement for you .

 

My whole thing is about replacing the built-in keyboard with an external one, and also providing for a built-in seamless solid state hard drive experience (thanks a lot to FJC). I never liked the idea of the keyboard being integrated with the computer, because it always felt so restrictive to me, and lacked flexibility in placement such as having it on your lap. I also don't see the love of floppies vs a good CF or SD drive. Back in the day floppies were a big and welcome transition from cassette, but once you go CF it's nearly impossible to go back (at least for me that is). So my first project the 1088XEL was all about doing this, as well as integrating all the upgrades I loved. This project is about taking all that and making it more retro. After this, I'm not sure what I'll do, but another motherboard is probably not going to be it.

 

I did a quick glance at that page you linked to, but to be honest there was way too much there for me to take the time right now to sort through. is there a more specific link to what you wanted me to see?

 

Kyle... I hope you are kidding, because if not, you sure sound agitated .

[Jetboot Jack]

Turn old computers into PC usb keyboards - http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/2014/03/atari-65xe-usb-keyboard.html

 

sTeVE

[seastalker]

Steve beat me to it. Thanks for the correction, my link was the home page. To mytek, I follow your vision and applaud it. Even MORE so with this design in a 1050. I like that now instead of a PC case, I could in theory take good chips off a non-functional A8 board, but them on this, put it in a 1050, have all the awesome modern benefits of your board, yet have the whole look of the way it was- using a real A8 keyboard housing tynemouth's USB mod. Kyle, I hope your aren't directing your odd post at me. I can't "lose" anything I wasn't competing in. What is there to "give up"?

 

A mention of Commodore or the 128d is pointing out a design choice comparison. Imagine if Atari did a "130d" by separating the keyboard from a boxy 130. I will compare an Atari XEGS to a C64GS to even an Apple IIGS (noting 'Game System' vs 'Graphics & Sound') if I want to without using "he who must not be named" Harry Potter nonsense. In 2018, I can't believe adults still have Coke vs. Pepsi type brand loyalty aggression (I know the harms of drinking soda, but I digress). I'm happy to enjoy the history and usage of all vintage machines... including that one company's workers may have migrated to the other. Does that make them 'turncoats' for trying to better their individual lives or feed their families?

 

After my budget recoveries from recent Atari goodies, if I get this 1050 project up and running, maybe I'll take a picture of it working with a Keyrah in a C64, just for Kyle

[+mytek]

Thanks for the new link Jetboot Jack .

 

That USB conversion is aimed at emulator usage on a PC, giving you the look and feel of a 'real' A8 keyboard under emulation. For those reading this that might not be clear on what that really means, this won't work with my project. However as seastalker is likely suggesting, it would be cool to have something similar to use with my project, although it would have to be PS/2 in that case.

 

My plans are to take a mini PS/2 keyboard and repaint it's case to match the XL's body color (thanks to Gunstar for the paint color). And perhaps use a sticker set to redefine some of the keys.

 

Seastalker please keep in mind that with this latest motherboard project, I still haven't made a decision on public release as I did for the 1088XEL. I guess a lot of that depends upon how it turns out in the end, and if I feel up to creating the minimally required documentation required for others to build it. As you can imagine this requires a good chunk of my time to bring it into a DIY form that others can copy. But as some like to say "Never say never" .

 

 

Steve beat me to it. Thanks for the correction, my link was the home page. To mytek, I follow your vision and applaud it. Even MORE so with this design in a 1050. I like that now instead of a PC case, I could in theory take good chips off a non-functional A8 board, but them on this, put it in a 1050, have all the awesome modern benefits of your board, yet have the whole look of the way it was- using a real A8 keyboard housing tynemouth's USB mod. Kyle, I hope your aren't directing your odd post at me. I can't "lose" anything I wasn't competing in. What is there to "give up"?

 

A mention of Commodore or the 128d is pointing out a design choice comparison. Imagine if Atari did a "130d" by separating the keyboard from a boxy 130. I will compare an Atari XEGS to a C64GS to even an Apple IIGS (noting 'Game System' vs 'Graphics & Sound') if I want to without using "he who must not be named" Harry Potter nonsense. In 2018, I can't believe adults still have Coke vs. Pepsi type brand loyalty aggression (I know the harms of drinking soda, but I digress). I'm happy to enjoy the history and usage of all vintage machines... including that one company's workers may have migrated to the other. Does that make them 'turncoats' for trying to better their individual lives or feed their families?

 

After my budget recoveries from recent Atari goodies, if I get this 1050 project up and running, maybe I'll take a picture of it working with a Keyrah in a C64, just for Kyle

[seastalker]

Ok, I won't say never, and I was indeed unaware this was not necessarily intended for other Atarians. My apologies for hasty assumptions. I also don't know what work goes into art schematics but it must be time consuming. I wonder what keyboard would be worthy of this project. My favorite to USE is an IBM model M but they are so awesome, I don't know if I could paint one and slap on an Atari badge though. Maybe a newer Lexmark or Unicomp. Would a XEGS keyboard port-> PS2 conversion work by remapping the pin outs? If it were me, I'd swap between the XEGS and XEL without painting it in that scenario, unless lucky to find a separate XEGS keyboard in bad shape in need of paint anyway... just me imagining out loud.

[+mytek]

Ok, I won't say never, and I was indeed unaware this was not necessarily intended for other Atarians. My apologies for hasty assumptions. I also don't know what work goes into art schematics but it must be time consuming. I wonder what keyboard would be worthy of this project. My favorite to USE is an IBM model M but they are so awesome, I don't know if I could paint one and slap on an Atari badge though. Maybe a newer Lexmark or Unicomp. Would a XEGS keyboard port-> PS2 conversion work by remapping the pin outs? If it were me, I'd swap between the XEGS and XEL without painting it in that scenario, unless lucky to find a separate XEGS keyboard in bad shape in need of paint anyway... just me imagining out loud.

 

From a documentation aspect it's not just about schematics, which will happen anyway as part of the PCB layout process, but more to do with providing a complete BOM. Although that can be derived by modifying the 1088XEL one. So I guess it really comes down to if I'm successful at taking it all the way to a fully working version.

 

In the 1088XEL project I was determined not to be like so many others before me, and start something and then have it turn into nothing more than a debate about what it should or should not have. I stuck to my guns and made it into a reality. However that also required about a year of my life to do so, really eating into any free time I had, even to the point of interfering with my paid work. This time around I just want to have fun, with no real end goal in mind as far as a schedule, and without having to feel like I let anyone down if it doesn't come to fruition. Hence the reason I haven't announced that this will be destined for public release.

 

As for remapping a stock A8 keyboard matrix to a PS/2 controller, that would be possible, but it would also be a lot of work. A good starting point would be to find a controller in ready supply. Or in other words a PS/2 keyboard that can be bought cheaply and that a good number of them exist. A certain Dell keyboard comes to mind, of which i have at least 6 on hand, all of which were purchased for $5 or less at thrift stores, but are also easily bought as NOS for less than $10 on eBay.

 

eBay Search: Dell RT7D20 04N454

 

I'll have to pop one of mine open and see what the controller looks like, and perhaps map out it's matrix for comparison.

 

There might even be a way to create an in-between interface board that allows the A8 keyboard to plug directly in, and then translate that to PS/2.

[Level42]

About the power situation.....isn't there some amazing PCB on Aliexpress for 3 dollars that accepts anything up to 24V in AC and DC and puts out 5V and 12 V DC ?

 

No ?

 

Really ?

 

 

Why not ?

 

It is 2018....this should exist

Edited August 2, 2018 by Level42

[dmsc]

Hi!

 

About the power situation.....isn't there some amazing PCB on Aliexpress for 3 dollars that accepts anything up to 24V in AC and DC and puts out 5V and 12 V DC ?

 

No ?

Really ?

Why not ?

 

It is 2018....this should exist

Well, for 3 dollars I don't know, but at 5 pieces for 2 dollars there is certainly a lot of choice: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS-XM1584-Ultra-small-size-DC-DC-step-down-power-supply-module-3A-adjustable-step-down/32531438467.html

 

You can use two of those, one calibrated at 5V and the other at 12V, and still have three boards to spare.

 

I have a power supply for my 800XL using one of those as regulator from a 9VDC supply, it gives me more confidence than a 220AC to 5DC cheap supply.

Edited August 2, 2018 by dmsc

[+mytek]

About the power situation.....isn't there some amazing PCB on Aliexpress for 3 dollars that accepts anything up to 24V in AC and DC and puts out 5V and 12 V DC ?

 

No ?

 

Really ?

 

Why not ?

 

It is 2018....this should exist

 

Of course there is, but if you are suggesting that I use that instead of my current plans to re-purpose the stock 9 VAC power adapter the answer is no. However unlike the stock 1050 supply, I am using miniature DC-DC switchers in place of the 7805 and 7812 linear regulators which will yield considerably more efficient power regulation as well as greatly reduced heat.

 

 

Note: These are fairly inexpensive drop-in replacements for the 78xx linear regulators, yielding 1.5 amps.

Edit: you can get chinese equivalents of these for around 2 USD each, but I'll be buying the Texas Instruments ones for just under 5 USD.

 

And I like the fact that not only the case will have that original Atari look, but so will the power adapter with that very nice Atari logo imprinted on top. besides anyone with a dead 1050 to be used for this project (assuming it gets released) will also likely have the original power brick as well. Why not put it to use?

 

And don't forget this is one of the best power bricks that Atari produced, being very reliable, and having a considerable power handling capability.

 

[Level42]

Yeah on your side of the Atlantic that is

 

It's jus a transformer, what on earth could go wrong with it

 

But what I meant that if such a thing exists as I described, you could still use that original PSU......

 

Oh...and I'm not a big fan of the switchers. Good you use high quality ones. If a switcher dies, it can very likely pass through the full input voltage with all devastating consequences for the rare VLSI chips behind them.....

I have seen some dead 78XX and 79XX's .....but all of them died "peacefully"......they shut down the output voltage to a LOWER voltage than the specced output. That makes is safer. Yes they waste energy...but let's face it....we're not talking kWh's here....it's just 1 amp max...

But...with your set-up I can still use the classic 78s

 

I strongly advice to those who _will_ use the switching replacements ....do as Michael does and invest in some high quality ones, not the Chinese....this is one of those moments you should choose for quality...

[Dropcheck]

In the 1088XEL project I was determined not to be like so many others before me, and start something and then have it turn into nothing more than a debate about what it should or should not have. I stuck to my guns and made it into a reality. However that also required about a year of my life to do so, really eating into any free time I had, even to the point of interfering with my paid work. This time around I just want to have fun, with no real end goal in mind as far as a schedule, and without having to feel like I let anyone down if it doesn't come to fruition. Hence the reason I haven't announced that this will be destined for public release.

I agree there are people who in effect want you to design their version of the 'perfect A8' machine. Usually they want some mashup of totally different technologies with no thought of how to marry them together to achieve a functioning unit. They have no experience or skill to do it themselves. Most of the time they don't have the development funds either. To top it off no two people want the same thing.

 

Play...... have fun. Experiment. If any suggestion seems sane and worthwhile great, otherwise do your own thing. You've already proven yourself on the 1088XEL.

 

I hope you do make the finished project public. I think it would be kinda cool to have a 1050 based 1088XEL INSIDE.

[+kheller2]

Yeah on your side of the Atlantic that is

 

It's jus a transformer, what on earth could go wrong with it

 

But what I meant that if such a thing exists as I described, you could still use that original PSU......

 

Oh...and I'm not a big fan of the switchers. Good you use high quality ones. If a switcher dies, it can very likely pass through the full input voltage with all devastating consequences for the rare VLSI chips behind them.....

I have seen some dead 78XX and 79XX's .....but all of them died "peacefully"......they shut down the output voltage to a LOWER voltage than the specced output. That makes is safer. Yes they waste energy...but let's face it....we're not talking kWh's here....it's just 1 amp max...

 

 

Is that the same for the TracoPower buck converters?

[rockdoc2010]

Hello probably a mute point.. is the motherboard still available and is there a working unit yet? I see a LOT of modifications available but its as new as the latest pop music song.. is it standing the test?

 

I have a lot of mods and just now have some time and money available.. 3/4 done with my bare 1200xl MB build BTW gold plated sockets with decoupling caps are a must! I even added the extra decoupling caps built into the MB an added additional insurance.

 

Love a link to the bare MB..

Thanks

 

Rockdoc2010

[+mytek]

Hello probably a mute point.. is the motherboard still available and is there a working unit yet? I see a LOT of modifications available but its as new as the latest pop music song.. is it standing the test?

 

I have a lot of mods and just now have some time and money available.. 3/4 done with my bare 1200xl MB build BTW gold plated sockets with decoupling caps are a must! I even added the extra decoupling caps built into the MB an added additional insurance.

 

Love a link to the bare MB..

Thanks

 

Rockdoc2010

Are you referring to the 10088XEL or this new project the 1088XLD? I suspect you are looking for a 1088XEL, and yes it is still available from MacRorie.

[rockdoc2010]

Still wondering if it works? Great idea. Make it smaller. I think a daughter board would have been the way to go. Smaller footprint and separation of church from state. Power and audio and IO on the daughter board and data and actual computer on the main board. Makes a failure easier to repair.

Im just saying.

Cant wait to get a bare mb. But does it work

[+mytek]

Still wondering if it works? Great idea. Make it smaller. I think a daughter board would have been the way to go. Smaller footprint and separation of church from state. Power and audio and IO on the daughter board and data and actual computer on the main board. Makes a failure easier to repair.

Im just saying.

Cant wait to get a bare mb. But does it work

 

If you are asking if the 1088XEL works that would be an affirmative. As for this newest project the 1088XLD, it's still being developed. However since a good portion of it is based on known working tech it too should work. Essentially it's a 1088XEL being reconfigured as a drop-in fit for a 1050 Floppy Drive case.

 

As for easier to repair, I think no matter what the configuration is (daughter board or not), so long as all points are accessible it should be easy to diagnose and repair. In this regard I don't see any inherent advantage to separating the specific items you listed onto a daughter board. The only reason I have implemented an additional daughter board in my design, was to put the front panel jacks and indicators at the proper height required. Of course the UAV and the U1MB are also daughter boards, and as such do allow for easy swapping during troubleshooting. And with the U1MB being the heart and soul of this new machine, I definitely see the ability to swap it for another a great way to rule out potential problems when diagnosing.

 

Thanks for your interest .

[Level42]

Still wondering if it works? Great idea. Make it smaller. I think a daughter board would have been the way to go. Smaller footprint and separation of church from state. Power and audio and IO on the daughter board and data and actual computer on the main board. Makes a failure easier to repair.

Im just saying.

Cant wait to get a bare mb. But does it work

 

So what you want is to go back to the 400/800 ?

 

Nah...daughterboards are clumsy, introduce possible contact problems and make things much more expensive (connectors, extra PCBs to be manufactured etc.) Besides.....what can there that needs repair ? It's still all Atari chips in there