RGB, SCART, Component, Composite- Understanding failed Misuse of Terms.

[keepdreamin]

You'd risk personal safety futzing about inside a CRT (possibly destroying in the process), then spend $50 on a component encoder that is going to yield the same picture results. No, that doesn't make any sense.

[Jess Ragan]

Could we not? This thread could be a valuable resource for information, if the bickering doesn't get it locked. Also, "just do a Google search" isn't helpful... it's condescending, and pretty obvious advice. I've done Google searches on the subject. I can't guarantee I would have found JuanSolo's guide unless I used very specific keywords.

[keepdreamin]

I would strongly advise against anyone posting information regarding the modifications of high voltage equipment. This is not like suggesting shelves and posters to decorate a game room. Untrained people reading and following information would be potentially at risk of severe injury or worse, following instructions that may not be correct.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Tinkering with electric devices if you dont understand how to drain a capacitor to remove stored power is a bad idea.

 

Being nasty and condescending to everyone when they misunderstand the myriad of overlapping video standards between continents isnt much help either.

[Austin]

Not to mention modding a television for SCART seems like way more trouble than it's worth. As you can see in My Life In Gaming's videos, there's virtually no real-world visual difference between a good component setup and RGB via SCART. You are not going to get a superior image by using SCART directly, nor will you notice a downgrade by getting a SCART to Component converter.

 

Being nasty and condescending to everyone when they misunderstand the myriad of overlapping video standards between continents isnt much help either.

What doesn't help is it being explained properly many times and it going in one ear and out the other (as it usually tends to with Derpman™).

[Zonie]

Jess, I may have an Old RGB CRT in the garage. It is small, like 10" or so, Let me know if you are interested in it and I will look for it. We bought it for a digital imaging system back in the 90's.

[icemanxp300]

What doesn't help is it being explained properly many times and it going in one ear and out the other (as it usually tends to with Derpman™).

 

You are right it is being explained multiple times. I want to do the mod and I am going to do the mod so that's that.

 

I am being EXTREMELY nice and holding back what I really want to say, because that would get the thread locked. So seriously just drop it and move on.

[Jess Ragan]

Jess, I may have an Old RGB CRT in the garage. It is small, like 10" or so, Let me know if you are interested in it and I will look for it. We bought it for a digital imaging system back in the 90's.

 

I may just take you up on this... thanks! Working on getting an SCART monitor from Mercari but if that falls through, it would be nice to have other options. You wouldn't happen to know the model, would you?

[phoenixdownita]

I may just take you up on this... thanks! Working on getting an SCART monitor from Mercari but if that falls through, it would be nice to have other options. You wouldn't happen to know the model, would you?

Keep in mind that at 10" is the size of an iPad, it's a very nice offer though.

[Austin]

I am being EXTREMELY nice and holding back what I really want to say, because that would get the thread locked. So seriously just drop it and move on.

Nice to see you showing some restraint for a change. Keep it up.

[phoenixdownita]

[carlsson]

Perhaps there should be a list of "You have - You want - You need". Something like this:

 

You have: RGB signals from an older video game

You want: To display it on a TV that doesn't have RGB input, but has component input

You need: A $50 converter to turn RGB into component signals

 

You have: RGB signals from an older video game

You want: To display it on a computer monitor with VGA input

You need: (insert device which successfully converts 15 kHz RGB to VGA)

 

You have: RGB signals from an older video game

You want: To display it on a modern TV that only has HDMI input

You need: (insert device which converts 15 kHz RGB into HDMI without too much lag)

 

etc. You could fill in cases for "You have: Composite video", "You have: S-Video", "You have: Older form of component video" etc for completeness.

 

Note that above, I'm ignoring which type of connector your RGB signal from the older video game has. It seems that in the majority of cases, you'll have a SCART cable because that is what people building video cables aim for, but most of the systems will natively have some form of DIN, mini-DIN, D-Sub or other connector so depending which type of input connetor the device in "You need" takes, you might need to modify an existing cable or roll your own.

 

Also, I wonder if Video is referring to colour images in general when he discussed the term of RGB, that even a composite video signal usually has the full spectrum of colours so in some sense it contains all the components of red, green and blue, though baked together.

[phoenixdownita]

....

Also, I wonder if Video is referring to colour images in general when he discussed the term of RGB, that even a composite video signal usually has the full spectrum of colours so in some sense it contains all the components of red, green and blue, though baked together.

I am not sure it really matters to be frank.

We're trying to play nice but ... you know ... it takes two to play tango.

[Jess Ragan]

Keep in mind that at 10" is the size of an iPad, it's a very nice offer though.

It's not huge, I know. My Amiga 1080 at home is 14 inches. Unfortunately, that's thousands of miles away. Back in 2014, I wanted to mod a Genesis 9 pin DIN to work with that, but the damn connector would melt every time I tried to solder wires into the cups! Now that I know the pinout on the underside of the Genesis, I would have done things differently; installed a connector into the back of the system and wired it up appropriately. But I'm here and my Genesis 2 is over there, so that ain't happening.

 

Like I said, I'm going to aim for the 910MP I found on Mercari. If that pans out, no problem! If it doesn't the CRT will be my plan B... and frankly I might want it anyway. This is a CRT-free home, but it might be nice to have (a small) one around to give my consoles that authentic retro flavor.

[mr_me]

 

 

First off I am NOW taking the time to learn it. Before the last thread I had zero interest in it so I never bothered to understand it. Now I do. Why do you keep saying the same shit over and over. Yeah I know retrovision cables take RGB from the console and put it to component. I AM NOT BUYING THOSE CABLES.

 

Does that make sense? Before I drop $70+ EACH on those component cables I would buy $6-$10 RBG SCART cables and use a Scart to component converter.

 

However before I buy a scart to component converter I would rather just RGB Scart mod the TV.

 

Can you comprehend that yet?

What game systems are we talking about. With some, adding s-video output is cheap and also easier/safer than adding rgb input to a crt.

[carlsson]

Ideally any system, but some of the ones mentioned in this thread include Sega Genesis & Dreamcast, Sony Playstation, Atari 7800 & Jaguar, Neo-Geo and Commodore Amiga. Obviously that is far from a complete list of systems able to produce RGB signals, and some may already have been modded to do so.

 

Phoenixdownita previously wrote that he successfully had modded most or all of his systems to output S-Video, which is great but also quite a bit of job if you got a large array of natively RGB systems you want to display on a non-RGB TV set. Perhaps such modded systems increase in value, in particular on a market where RGB capable TVs and monitors are scarse.

 

Using an external converter when applicable will be much less work, if only the end result is decent enough.

[mr_me]

I think playstation, dreamcast, jaguar, snes natively support s-video. Genesis and neo geo video processor supports it at the chip but not wired, so a relatively easy mod. The 7800 has to be modified for any.

Edited August 1, 2018 by mr_me

[icemanxp300]

What game systems are we talking about. With some, adding s-video output is cheap and also easier/safer than adding rgb input to a crt.

 

My main 3 systems I play are nes (both toaster and toploader), snes(have both but hate the mini), and genesis(have all 3 models but prefer model1,). I as well have Atari-2600,5200,7800, jr, master system (both models, but I only play the 1st), 32X, Sega CD, Saturn, n64, turbo grafx, 3-DO, CD-I, x-box, gamecube, ps1, ps2, Neo Geo, Dreamcast, Intellivision 3, wii, and a wii u.

[Jess Ragan]

Well, the monitor purchase went through. Mercari put up one hell of a fight, though. We'll see if they actually come through for me or set yet another roadblock in my path.

 

Oh yeah... I watched that My Life in Gaming video, and can confirm that the SCART to HDMI box stinks to high heaven. You know, this one.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Scart-Video-Converter-Scaler-Coaxial/dp/B00MUNIVRO

 

Things look okay when the screen is perfectly still, but since video games don't work that way, there's a lot of blurring, giving it the look of an emulated game with a fancy filter. You know, the ones nobody wants to use when they play games in an emulator.

[Taijigamer]

My main 3 systems I play are nes (both toaster and toploader), snes(have both but hate the mini), and genesis(have all 3 models but prefer model1,). I as well have Atari-2600,5200,7800, jr, master system (both models, but I only play the 1st), 32X, Sega CD, Saturn, n64, turbo grafx, 3-DO, CD-I, x-box, gamecube, ps1, ps2, Neo Geo, Dreamcast, Intellivision 3, wii, and a wii u.

That's an impressive selection of video games consoles. It's great to see that u have become more familiar with the various video signal and video connector standards. I'm obviously going to reiterate the caution previously mentioned about modding a CRT Tv for RGBS. This should only be undertaken by an experienced CRT Tv technician. This is more for other readers of this thread as u have already stated your intentions. As I'm sure u are starting to realise, it's not so much the connector but the video standard that it transmits. As you are already going to the trouble to install a new video receiving connector, u could use any connector to your choosing rather than a clunky 21 pin SCART. For example, a 8 pin din, 9 pin d-sub etc. Of course using a 21 pin SCART would save u the trouble of rolling your own cables.

 

Most of your consoles already output RGBS. The others can be modded to do so. The ones that already output YPrPb, I would stick with that as it can output up to 480p/ 720p whereas RGBS maxes out at 240p/ 480i (I avoid interlace where possible.)

 

Despite some opinions, using Component (either YPrPb or RGBS) is preferable as there is less chance of colour bleed and blurred edges in the output picture compared to S-video or CVBS.

[John Stamos Mullet]

 

You are right it is being explained multiple times. I want to do the mod and I am going to do the mod so that's that.

 

I am being EXTREMELY nice and holding back what I really want to say, because that would get the thread locked. So seriously just drop it and move on.

in all seriousness, if you are going to attempt an RGB mod on a CRT tv, read up about draining high voltage capacitors. I do mods of tube amplifiers for guitars and the same thing applies. Doesnt matter if the TVs is tube or solid state. Even unplugged, and power off - capacitors store power for years. It can easily kill you if you dont drain them. Edited August 1, 2018 by John Stamos Mullet

[phoenixdownita]

I think playstation, dreamcast, jaguar, snes natively support s-video. Genesis and neo geo video processor supports it at the chip but not wired, so a relatively easy mod. The 7800 has to be modified for any.

NeoGeo and Genesis (except the 3 [not sure about the later Brazilian variants made by Tectoy]) are fine and fully support RGB on their respective connectors (and they have Scart cables for it).

The 32x also is fine (and actually its video mixer chip uses the RGB signal from the main console).

 

 

....

Phoenixdownita previously wrote that he successfully had modded most or all of his systems to output S-Video, which is great but also quite a bit of job if you got a large array of natively RGB systems you want to display on a non-RGB TV set. Perhaps such modded systems increase in value, in particular on a market where RGB capable TVs and monitors are scarse.

 

Using an external converter when applicable will be much less work, if only the end result is decent enough.

I modded all I could to SVideo because my particular Vizio LED TV has an awesome support for it (as long as the original signal is not too far from NTSC timing), another plasma TV I have has SVideo that is only marginally better compared to composite, seriously until I got interested in PAL consoles I thought I was all set (even my 32x has SVideo mod).

I did try those SVideo->HDMI converters (I have 3 in the house) with the PAL systems I had (modded too) but the 240p as 480i just looked meh so XRGBMini I went. Obviously the Vizio SVideo support also does 240p->480i it is just not as bad as el-cheapo and the final image is extremely crisp.

The same Vizio though treats some composite pretty poorly, the Genesis/MDs are pretty much unwatchable, got 1 MD1 and 2 MD2 and they all look like crap on composite on that TV, a Duo-R instead aside little toned down colors looks very good.

Needless to say all of those consoles look just fine on the 13" CRT I have laying around via composite ... sigh!

So the external converter for me didn't work as good as the "internal" hence why I modded the systems I have (I put an RGB mod in my Twin Famicom and only connected SVideo as at the time didn't have the XRGBMini an it looked good on that Vizio, so much so I have not yet connected the RGB signals)

 

Funny part is that consoles that normally output 480i look fine on el-cheapo SVideo->HDMI (DC, GC, PS2 in PS2 mode etc...) if a little soft.

[icemanxp300]

in all seriousness, if you are going to attempt an RGB mod on a CRT tv, read up about draining high voltage capacitors.

 

I have already been doing just that. I would expect the high voltage caps are where the real danger comes from not the flyback that most people talk about. Have you watched any scrapping videos? These people just open a CRT and snip the flyback wire right off, so I really question how much danger is actually there. Hell I unscrewed a fuse to a 110 line for a furnace back in 2001 ish and my finger accidentally touched the metal and holy shit it felt like someone had hit me in my arm with a baseball bat, I was sore for weeks. Not only that but you can't let go, your muscles freeze and you basically become paralyzed. Lucky for me I somehow drifted away enough to break the connection.

 

Still yet I plan on discharging the flyback and I have zero intentions of touching anything I don't need. Do a video search for flyback arcs or arcing. Those guys are crazy.

[Video]

 

Also, I wonder if Video is referring to colour images in general when he discussed the term of RGB, that even a composite video signal usually has the full spectrum of colours so in some sense it contains all the components of red, green and blue, though baked together.

Yes. It wasn't to anyone in particular. I may have misread or misunderstood, but it seemed to me the op was complaining about people misusing rgb when all video cables indeed pipe a tricolor signal to your tv. I was just saying people saying rgb likely meant the split video with three colors for the video signal. I do see people use it interchangeably with composite though and I am pretty sure that is wrong, but like I said, I don't really know the difference myself so I usually just roll with it.

[keepdreamin]

A mod should seriously consider closing this down. People of unverified qualifications openly discussing messing about with high voltage stuff, this is beyond the scope of simple video game discussions.