mr_me Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I agree with the original post that the term component is a little misused. Component doesn't really describe the video signal. That video signal should be referred to as YPP. On my Toshiba TV they call YPP colorstream. So you have YPP vs RGB video signals. Both could use the same component cable. Similarly the term scart is often misused when referring to the rgb signal it carries rather than the scart connector. As others have said scart can carry other video signals and audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 What do people consider a jack? To me a jack is a phono end. SCART to me does not have a jack it has pins in a connector. When words like jacks and RGB are just tossed around that is why people like me don't understand wth people are talking about. Plus RGB from how I understand it should not be considered a separate signol as it is multiple signals. No Component used Red, Green, and Blue color jacks. RGB is simply video signals devices output. I think part of your confusion stems from confusing connectors with the signals they carry. It's not as if a pitcher can ONLY contain juice, never water or gasoline or milk. In any case, it's somewhat amusing to see so much consternation over something relatively simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 If you happen to post factually incorrect information, at least have the decency to correct it. If you're past the post edit time, at least acknowledge your mistake. Every one makes mistakes, but it takes grown folks to acknowledge a mistake. Just leaving posts with absolutely incorrect info doesn't help anyone. We already have a full house of people doing that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 You can't do a passive SCART to YUV converter, can you? That's what I would prefer; something that doesn't take up tons of space and doesn't require its own power supply (or for Pete's sake, at least take it from the system itself!). https://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Composite-COMPONENT-VIDEO-AV-TV-ADAPTER-HD-CONVERTER/222981233413?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 I keep seeing things like this on eBay, and it looks like what I would want to use, but no... everybody says "that won't work" or "it'll only display in black and white" or something. WHY won't it work, though? Why would they even sell it if it didn't work? I need to understand this. Honestly, I'm tired of dinking around with this. I don't know if I'll get a Minigen HD or a TV with SCART already built in or what, but I hate the way games look on my 16-bit systems, and every fix I've attempted has been unsuccessful. Even the VGA trick gave me nothing, despite being told that my 713n monitor could accept a 15khz signal (cough cough bullshit cough). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 What is the video quality difference for Component vs SCART and what is the video quality difference for SCART vs SCART-Component converter? In simple terms, video quality difference between these 3 options. Component= Scart-component converter= Scart= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) You can't do a passive SCART to YUV converter, can you? That's what I would prefer; something that doesn't take up tons of space and doesn't require its own power supply (or for Pete's sake, at least take it from the system itself!). https://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Composite-COMPONENT-VIDEO-AV-TV-ADAPTER-HD-CONVERTER/222981233413?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 I keep seeing things like this on eBay, and it looks like what I would want to use, but no... everybody says "that won't work" or "it'll only display in black and white" or something. WHY won't it work, though? Why would they even sell it if it didn't work? I need to understand this. Honestly, I'm tired of dinking around with this. I don't know if I'll get a Minigen HD or a TV with SCART already built in or what, but I hate the way games look on my 16-bit systems, and every fix I've attempted has been unsuccessful. Even the VGA trick gave me nothing, despite being told that my 713n monitor could accept a 15khz signal (cough cough bullshit cough). Maybe that RGB to YPP converter is taking power through one of the scart pins so if your rgb source is not providing power it might not work. I've read that later versions of that monitor was based on updated electronics that doesn't support 15kHz. Does your instructions specifications say it supports 15kHz? Edited July 29, 2018 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 It didn't come with instructions. I found a manual online but I couldn't say if it was written for this specific 713n. If later 713n models can't recognize a 15khz signal, that's most likely why I can't get a picture out of this thing. I just assumed that 713n models would offer consistent performance... I hadn't heard of any revisions that would break 15khz compatibility. It's frustrating to discover that they exist, and that I probably have one of the later models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 The instructions I found at Samsung's website says it supports 30khz to 81khz horizontal sync. 15kHz might have been a hidden feature with early models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) The easiest way to view it is this: Europe decided on SCART as a universal connector that could carry a variety of video signals. One jack to rule them all, so the speak. RGB was one of those signals. In theory, you could plug in a SCART cable and you'd get the best signal your device + TV could both handle. Exactly. I remember hearing about SCART and seeing it on TV's in Europe when traveling, but we didn't get it, figured someday we would but we got something better (HDMI) eventually, and now it is thankfully a world standard that should stay for a while. Sure it is a clunky connector, but it is unique to SCART, and it carries multiple signals and types. They also tried to think ahead how they could use it as a communications cable to control VCR's, etc. as Carlsson stated. As an engineer designing systems, I try to design stuff into things for expansion, potential other uses, etc. You never know so you put stuff in there hoping to use it someday. I had a Sony TV with a DVI looking connector with an odd pin count. The Amiga500 had a 23 Pin Dsub connector that the RF adapter plugged into. I knew that S-video and Chroma/Luma were the same due to my 1701 monitor so made some adapter cables in the day. I had a "Magic Sync" CRT that had a regular VGA connector but also a 25 pin Dsub that could handle EGA and CGA and who knows what else. Maybe all the SCART stuff in a different form factor. Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with Composite (yellow/white/red) for all the older stuff. S-video is just a little better but I cannot really notice it. I mean, lets be serious here, unless we're talking 1080 vs. composite or 4K vs 1080, you really cannot tell the difference of the older standards. Most people cannot even tell the difference between 720 and 1080. When using a VCR, the tape mattered the most, and a good tape on quality RF was just fine on a NTSC TV. Edited July 29, 2018 by Zonie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 With regular video and a trinitron I see a distinct difference between s-video and composite. I see no difference between composite and RF. If you have a good RF source there's really nothing wrong with it. Thinking about the original post, I'm sure initially I also confused RGB and YPP/component. I remember old vga computer monitors that had red green blue jacks and when I first saw component input I probably thought it was the same. It's been a while but at some point I must have taken five minutes and read about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Those old VGA monitors with those BNC connectors were RGB. VGA is basically RGB. It was analog. EGA was a digital standard, and for text, I thought it looked better... Just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 I remember hearing about SCART and seeing it on TV's in Europe when traveling, but we didn't get it, figured someday we would but we got something better (HDMI) For the purpose of retro gaming I have to disagree. I purchased a snes classic and I tried playing Street Fighter 2 and the lag (while only a small delay) was enough for me to give the classic no more than 5 minutes of my time, it went back in the box and on craigslist and sold 2 hrs later. Plus how am I suppose to shoot ducks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Hey, there are lots of Europeans here. Any of you have a flat screen LCD monitor or television with an SCART connector you'd like to ship to the United States? I mean, it would make my life a lot easier... you know, just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 What is the video quality difference for Component vs SCART and what is the video quality difference for SCART vs SCART-Component converter? In simple terms, video quality difference between these 3 options. Component= Scart-component converter= Scart= I am not sure you'd find many people with an RGB->YUV (YPbPr) converter as that used to cost more than RGB->HDMI, only people in the US would have actually cared for RGB->YUV (TVs in Europe still carried Scart for a while once HDMI was created, Japanese had their own DTerminal cabling for YPbPr but something tells me the JP21 connector was still alive for RGB reasons for a while). So told RGB->YUV (YPbPr) is all done without needing buffering or delay but not with only passive components (OpAmps are used), theoretically quality should persist untouched across the transcoder but we all know how that works in practice, hopefully someone can chime in. I am not sure how many TVs supported YPbPr without also being digital, if you have one (a CRT with YPbPr all in the analogue domain) I think you're well set to succeed. If instead your TV (even with YPbPr) is digital (like all the LCD, LED, Plasma that were HDReady, FullHD etc..etc... but also most late CRTs) then the result would depend drastically on the TV upconversion circuitry. In this last scenario (YPbPr with one digital upconversion) I can offer one point of comparison. I have an XRGBMini which accepts Composite, SVideo, RGB and YPbPr (via DTerminal). The Sony PS2 can be set to output RGB or YPbPr from its AV (there are proper cables for both) and I tracked down a YPbPr->DTerminal cable to test with the XRGBMini (the PS2->DTerminal direct cable was more expensive at the time). Even with the latest XRGBmini firmware (2.01) RGB is better in the end, the XRGBmini renders the YPbPr signal in a softer manner (borders between object look softer/blurrier) and with less contrasted colors (some details look muddier and colors are generally less vibrant). This was tested on the same TV, only difference was the XRGBMini input. I doubt the PS2 itself would introduce those "defects" in its output but take it with a grain of salt. Last point, even if you manage to get an RGB->YUV (YPbPr) transcoder your TV may not like the 240p signal over YPbPr (that's what old consoles generate and digital TVs "mishandle" it to the point that over YPbPr many don't sync at all as they expect minimum a 480i [think DC, PS2 class and above]) . If you have an analogue TV with support for YPbPr it should just work with high probability (you won't know till you try), with digital TVs it seems some Samsung work and that more recent models seem to support it better but it may be a hit or miss. I can tell you that that very same PS2 above connected directly to the same TVs but via YPbPr (no XRGBmini) cannot display PS1 games (which are 240p) so that one TV cannot accept YPbPr at 240p which basically stopped me from pursuing RGB->YUV further (I didn't want to chase down a particular TV brand, model and maybe year). Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) TVs in Europe still carried Scart for a while once HDMI was created Unless you're buying the very latest, top model 50+" OLED UHD 4K SMART WOW L@@K TV, models still to this day tend to carry SCART as well as other connectors. This spring I bought a brand new 22" flat screen TV, model Philips 24PFS4022/12, manufactured November 2017. It has the following inputs: RF antenna (coax), satellite (F plug), SCART, VGA, HDMI 1 ARC, HDMI 2, audio in for use with VGA/DVI, digital audio out and a "SERV U" connector which I suppose is for field upgrades. Honestly I can't recall if I've tried the SCART input yet as I have so many other TV's and monitors with such input, but eventually I'll plug in some older computer or video game to see how well it groks it. I keep hearing that LCD/TFT screens anyway introduce lag and are incompatible with the progressive signals most of our favorite systems output, though I can't say I have encountered any such problems, at least not regarding the picture not displaying correctly. I am fully aware that YMMV though. That is to say that while both RCA jacks for composite video and SCART are on their way out from new TV models, they're not yet entirely extinct and if that is one of your major buying points, you should be able to find a TV (over here) that has those inputs. Many people however prefer those 4K SMART TV's and have no use of legacy inputs, so that is why not every TV still have them. @Jess: I would be a little worried shipping a flat screen TV. Obviously padding would be cruicial. One wonders if you can't order a brand new TV like the one I mention above from an European web shop, or perhaps they don't sell to overseas customers. Anyway my TV only is rated for 220-240V input so you would need a step-up converter to run it. Though I have a few older Samsung LCD TV:s (e.g. model LW15M23C) that are rated for 100-240V input. These have inputs for RF antenna, composite video, S-Video, SCART, VGA and audio in, though they're a bit hard to find so not for sale (and conveniently handle both NTSC and PAL composite video). Edited July 29, 2018 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 If you know of an online store that sells and ships to America, I'd appreciate the information. I've looked on Ebay UK but the vast majority of sellers have notes which read "may not ship to America." I've been looking on a site called "Mercari" that lets users buy and sell items. There's one SCART TV on there in California for a reasonable price. Problem is, I'm not a member yet and I don't know if the site is trustworthy. You're required to have an active phone number to use Mercari, and I neither have nor intend to get phone service. Needless to say, that makes things tricky. If I can find a backdoor into Mercari (ie pay a friend with the service to order for me) I'll probably go that route first, before trying to buy a set from overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Unless you're buying the very latest, top model 50+" OLED UHD 4K SMART WOW L@@K TV, models still to this day tend to carry SCART as well as other connectors. ... In the US it is almost impossible to find anything that has more that just 1 single composite and anywhere from 2 to 5 HDMI. SVideo has been removed across the board a few years back, even component is rare (sometimes sharing the YPbPr Green with Composite in an unholy half-Green/half-Yellow female RCA). Even VGAin that was somewhat available seem to have disappeared due to the death of VGA connectors in PCs (a cable can be used to go from DisplayPort to HDMI for up to 4K res anyway). What is it in Europe that still runs thru Scart? (aside old stuff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Generally I would say that SCART is legacy. Off-hand I can't think of any brand new electronics products that use it, but some models still are manufactured with backwards capacity if you like. As for composite input, we never had more than 1 such input, but then again we often had at least SCART (that also carries composite video as pointed out earlier) and sometimes the 4-pin mini-DIN for S-Video, though it never was as commonly seen. Jess: I can look around. Perhaps there is some company on e.g. Amazon UK which would ship overseas? As I wrote, it would almost take the original packaging with custom shaped polystyrene to hold the sides and correct sized box to safely ship a TV or monitor, even in the size of 15", which is why I fully understand why shipping options are limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Thanks for looking at least! I'll be looking for a US seller first, for the sake of convenience and price. If that doesn't work out, an overseas purchase would be plan B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I can look, too. The problem would be shipping, obviously. A smaller size TV would be the best option, as those tend to have removable 12V power supplies (and they are laptop-like power bricks so usually they will take 120volts-60 htz). If you want bigger, the shipping is going to be exponentially bigger. You might look on Chinese sites, too. Chinese TV makers doesn't care of what input is on their TVs if that's for export. Also look in the US for travel TVs, I know a few people in the US have found small "travel/camping" TVs with SCART and worldwide analog TV RF compatibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 Well basically it boils down to this. I am considering SCART modding a Sony Trinitron KD-27FS170 which has component inputs already. However reading on different forums people had suggested instead of modding a TV that already has component that you use a scart to component converter like this: http://www.ani-av.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=220 However looking at the price I was thinking I might as well just mod the TV like this video: I like the toggle switch he put in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbi9HEz-cww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Thanks for looking at least! I'll be looking for a US seller first, for the sake of convenience and price. If that doesn't work out, an overseas purchase would be plan B.Keep an eye out for a Samsung Syncmaster 910mp. It has Scart,VGA,svideo,composite and RF. I got one at a local Goodwill for $4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) ^^ Those appear regularly on US eBay, ranging from $28 to $144. There is one for sale for $160 right now. Needless to say, $4 was a very good price! I would bet a number of other SyncMaster models having similar capacities, just like the other Samsung model I've got and mentioned earlier. Edit: Some MP models like 510MP have SCART, others have just a plastic cover where the SCART is supposed to be. Generally I think you want to look for those 510MP, 710MP, 730MP, 910MP, 930MP, 940MW etc. Perhaps it is the "M" which is the key here, and P means 4:3 while W means 16:9. Edited July 29, 2018 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I have my eye on one of these, but like I said, it's on Mercari and I don't have an account yet. So Punisher, does that television live up to the hype? The picture looks a bit soft but that might just be the photo you took. Carlsson, I'll hunt for one of those M-class monitors. One of them's gotta at least have Roddenberries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I have my eye on one of these, but like I said, it's on Mercari and I don't have an account yet. So Punisher, does that television live up to the hype? The picture looks a bit soft but that might just be the photo you took. Carlsson, I'll hunt for one of those M-class monitors. One of them's gotta at least have Roddenberries. That picture was taken with Svideo so it doesnt look the best. I havent used anything above that yet. For some reason the vga output on the Dreamcast didnt work. Im working on getting something else to work though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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