Tiny Pascal?

[neglectoru]

(Inspired by the recent Antic interview about Pascal)...

 

Long before Abacus teamed with Data Becker for their pascal, Arnie Lee (of Abacus Software) was porting Tiny Pascal from the Z80-based computer to the Apple and Commodore machines:

Does anyone have a working version of this Tiny Pascal for any of the 6502 machines (Apple / C-64 / PET)?

[rpiguy9907]

You can get a working image of the compiler for the C64 version, but not the editor/interpreter disk.

 

This was recently discussed at length here:

 

https://www.forum64.de/index.php?thread/81989-abacus-tiny-pascal-von-1980-für-c64-und-pet-cbm/

 

Abacus, circa 1980, published a version of Tiny Pascal for the CBM 4032/8032. You will find many advertisements for it in publications of the time. Later they released a version of Tiny Pascal for the C64 in 1982. They are both exceedingly rare these days.

 

I hope someone stumbles upon them.

[rpiguy9907]

 

(Inspired by the recent Antic interview about Pascal)...

 

Long before Abacus teamed with Data Becker for their pascal, Arnie Lee (of Abacus Software) was porting Tiny Pascal from the Z80-based computer to the Apple and Commodore machines:

 

 

Does anyone have a working version of this Tiny Pascal for any of the 6502 machines (Apple / C-64 / PET)?

After considerable research I found out that Abacus basically took an existing Tiny Pascal implementation called KMMM Pascal and rebranded it. You can easily find images of KMMM Pascal for the PET, etc. with a Google search.

[derek.john.evans]

I think its called abacus pcode compiler which is easy to find. I've also seen the BASIC code to Pascal 64, which is somewhat larger. The release version of Pascal 64 is compiled. Maybe using BASIC 64 (which was also written in BASIC). KMMM IV doesn't look like either tiny Pascal or Pascal 64. The compiler is about 16k which does produce pcode, but only as a first phase for the 6502 translator. A pcode interpreter is mentioned in the docs as a future product which might not have been released. KMMM is the best native code compiler imo. Kyans native compiler is lacking in areas, but makes up ground with its built in assembler and its undocumented "relaxed var type checking" so, if you can handle asm code, then kyan pro is tops. Kyan standard is the best pcode dev system.

 

Super Pascal has its own dos system, which makes it unsuitable if you want to work with cbm files.

 

I personally am using kyan, because I know I can always resort to asm if I want.

 

Btw: I'm looking for kyan 128 for the commodore 128. Also, kyan pro is only on csdb which worries me!!

 

We cant loose it!

 

Ps: Zoom Pascal is KMMM level 3. Which lacks a lot of Pascal features. KMMM level 4 has the best built in string support.

Edited December 6, 2018 by derek.john.evans

[neglectoru]

Ps: Zoom Pascal is KMMM level 3. Which lacks a lot of Pascal features. KMMM level 4 has the best built in string support.

 

Zoom Pascal bears W Kusche's name. Didn't he also later work on Kyan Pascal?

[derek.john.evans]

Zoom Pascal bears W Kusche's name. Didn't he also later work on Kyan Pascal?

I'm not sure. I'm working a lot in kyan Pascal atm. I'll be releasing some code soon

[BGR]

On 10/15/2018 at 1:39 AM, rpiguy9907 said:

After considerable research I found out that Abacus basically took an existing Tiny Pascal implementation called KMMM Pascal and rebranded it. You can easily find images of KMMM Pascal for the PET, etc. with a Google search.

The rebranded KMMM/Zoom Pascal is not the implementation the two asked for. The very first "Tiny Pascal" from Abacus Software was released around 1980 for the Commodore PET and the Apple II. It was a direct 6502-port of Tiny Pascal published in Byte-Magazine 1978 (september to october). Tiny Pascal in Byte Magazin was Intel 8080-based. It was sold by SuperSoft for the TRS-80. Abacus Software got a license from them to port Tiny Pascal to the PET and the Apple II.

 

Yes, it was sometimes called the "P-Code compiler / interpreter" and you can easy find versions of it for Commodore 64 on the Internet, for example through "Commodore Search" (cbm8bit.com). But sadly: They are all broken. Yes, all. This topic had already been discussed at Forum64.de, without a solution.

 

You can edit pascal source code with it and compile it to p-code. But the p-code interpreter (c64) doesn't work. It simply crashes. The versions for Apple II and PET seem to be lost. The c64-version may not be official. Maybe someone tried to port the PET-Version of Tiny Pascal to the C64, but he corrupted the interpreter. Several people copied and spread the broken interpreter, already in the 1980s - and now you can't find any working version of this early Tiny Pascal from Abacus Software. Short after Tiny Pascal, several other pascal compilers were released, by Abacus and other publishing houses. But this gem from the very beginning is still missing, in a working state. So it would be great if it could be rescued - for Commodore PET or Apple II. It is a piece of pascal history for Apple and Commodore, because of its roots back to the 1970s, when Apple II and the PET were state of the art. There even had been "Tiny Pascal Plus" from Abacus, which supported ASCII-graphics. According to old ads, the source listing (6502) of the whole compiler and interpreter was available on paper. Maybe someone still has got this?

[neglectoru]

Thanks for the info. It's a shame that none of the packages are working. An original, or a fixed interpreter would be awesome. I'll check out the forum64 thread to see if constructing a new interpreter would be possible.