My homemade 5200 controller

[orion1052003]

[orion1052003]

[orion1052003]

[orion1052003]

[orion1052003]

[orion1052003]

How do you adjust a pokey resistor if you dont know anything about Electronics? Looking at post #1. I cant select a game with the new controller at all, only by having a hard time with the original. The menu scrolls up by itself and wants to stay there. I don't think the new controller will work with an original missile command, but maybe I should use the original controller first? When I tried the maker matrix with the Galaxian, the ship goes immediately left and stays stuck there most of the time.

Edited January 31, 2020 by orion1052003

[+DrVenkman]

First off, no need to spam the thread with a bunch of pics.  

1 hour ago, orion1052003 said:

I cant select a game with the new controller at all, only by having a hard time with the original.

The fact that even a stock controller has trouble with the menu of your AtariMax cart strongly indicates an issue with the console.

 

The post I linked to last night has all you need to know to adjust the POKEY resistor. And yours appears vastly out of spec.  The photo you showed (really the only one that matters) shows that you have a horizontal reading of only 61. That's way too low. It should read 112 +/- 1 on the horizontal, and 100 - 125 or so on the vertical. The POKEY resistor is a small plastic circular knob under the case top cover, immediately to the right and forward of the RF shield corner. The post I linked has a photo of this resistor circled in red. 

 

Also, if you want to avoid a bunch of tests that are irrelevant to controller adjustment, find and use a copy of the Pete's Test Cart ROM (sometimes called Pete's Diagnostic) rather than the full PAM SALT cart. Pete's has just a few screens, all intended for basic tests and adjustments - there are color and gray bar screens to help you adjust the color potentiometer, and a pair of screens for analog stick controllers and the Trak-Ball. 

[orion1052003]

Of course its an issue with the console. That's why I'm writing here. Why would pics on the topic be considered spam? Pictures often tell more than words and are more interesting to the users. I have no easy way to get internet access without driving somewhere, so I often don't have time to find all the replies at any one time. But I read the posts you mentioned, and it showed me in red where the thing is. But I don't know how to open up the 5200 to get to it or what to do with it. Many of the pictures I posted are from Pete's Diagnostic Test. I just used as many diagnostics as I could find on the multicart, I think there were 3 different ones, including Pete's. I don't think I know exactly how to USE Pete's diagnostic. It was very tedious and time consuming with the original controller to even get to the games you want on the menu. Im guessing the multicart is ok, the maker matrix was tested as ok, and the videos show the 5200 out of sync with the values as you said. I just want to know if there is a way for a no electronics knowledge person to fix or adjust it, or if I have to find someone that can work on it.

[the Goat]

5 minutes ago, orion1052003 said:

But I don't know how to open up the 5200

Use a screwdriver.

[+DrVenkman]

5 minutes ago, orion1052003 said:

I just want to know if there is a way for a no electronics knowledge person to fix or adjust it, or if I have to find someone that can work on it.

Certainly. The 5200 case is held together by 7 screws (if I recall correctly). Two of them are shorter than the others - these are the two screws at the very rear corners of the case. The others are interchangeable. Once you unscrews these, remove the top from the the case and set it aside. The adjustment of the POKEY resistor can be done with your bare fingers, though do be careful to avoid static discharge into any of the electronics of the 5200. Adjust the resistor, test the controller response with the test program of your choice and then adjust again.

 

You *can* adjust while the cart is inserted and running the test so you can see the results real-time, but you have to open up the cart flap and sit it down onto the connector without the cart closing up on you. Not sure if you want to tackle that or not, as it can be tricky especially if you don't have a very small flat-blade screwdriver handy to trip the slot cover on the cartridge. 

[orion1052003]

On the inside there appears to be shielding youre not supposed to take off

[orion1052003]

Notice the quality of response of Dr. Venkman vs. The Goat. Thanks. Ill try opening it up, I just hope I don't break it. I've heard stories about the 5200 breaking just sitting there on display without being touched. Pretty bad craftmanship apparently.

[+DrVenkman]

Again, please refer to the post I have linked several times. It clearly identifies the POKEY resistor to adjust, circled in red in the photograph. Your 5200 won't break from being opened up. With power disconnected, turn the 5200 upside down, remove all the screws, turn it back right side up and lift off the top cover. You do *not* need to remove the RF shield to access the POKEY resistor, or the color potentiometer either. You can see this in the photo from the post I have been referencing. 

[Swami]

2 hours ago, orion1052003 said:

Notice the quality of response of Dr. Venkman vs. The Goat. Thanks. Ill try opening it up, I just hope I don't break it. I've heard stories about the 5200 breaking just sitting there on display without being touched. Pretty bad craftmanship apparently.

Here's a video pointing out what they're talking about. Doesn't exactly walk through the adjustment, but will get you started. I've done it myself a couple of times. I used a plastic fork with one tine left to turn the pokey while running the pete's test cart (or missile command), so I can adjust and check the controller without a bunch of power cycles. You can also see what he is talking about keeping the flap open.  There's also a couple minutes in the video below it.

 

 

 

 

[orion1052003]

Thanks Dr and Swami. The videos and posts help. I will try it. If successful, it could get a 5200 out of dustcloset and into the gaming area.

[orion1052003]

Turned pot from vertical to horizontal

MAKER MATRIX

 

Menu wants to scroll down

 

Buttons make screen flash

cant select any game on list or start

any rom on multicart

 

Makes menu scrolling noise all the time, even on bottom. last rom on list

 

Galaxian original cartridge works better but constant tug to the right

 

ATARI CONTROLLER

 

With original controller, same effect lesser degree. i can stop menu, go up and down although it automatically starts scrolling down. I can also select and play a game. Tugs to right in game not as strongly but bad enough. Worked pretty good in Galaxian, much easier to clear a screen.

 

Maybe I need to turn pot one quarter turn left. In between horizontal and vertical. How do I make sure I'm grounded?

Edited February 3, 2020 by orion1052003

[Swami]

21 minutes ago, orion1052003 said:

Turned pot from vertical to horizontal

MAKER MATRIX

 

Menu wants to scroll down

 

Buttons make screen flash

cant select any game on list or start

any rom on multicart

 

Makes menu scrolling noise all the time, even on bottom. last rom on list

 

Galaxian original cartridge works better but constant tug to the right

 

ATARI CONTROLLER

 

With original controller, same effect lesser degree. i can stop menu, go up and down although it automatically starts scrolling down. I can also select and play a game. Tugs to right in game not as strongly but bad enough. Worked pretty good in Galaxian, much easier to clear a screen.

 

Maybe I need to turn pot one quarter turn left. In between horizontal and vertical. How do I make sure I'm grounded?

I would do like in the video and get missile command going and tune it with the plastic fork with the cover is off and unit is running until the cursor is centered. Then report the far left/center/far right and top/center bottom values here from pete's test cart.

[orion1052003]

I'm starting to get results now. I opened up the 5200 and turned the pot one quarter turn to the left. I tested the original controller and maker matrix with Missile Command, Galaxian, Pete's Diagnostic, and the multicart menu. On missile command, the cursor is a little off center starting out. I think to the right with the maker and to the left with the original. In Galaxian it stuck to the right at first with the maker. Then it seemed to work fine from then on. In Pete's diagnostic I got original controller values HOR 84 VER 112 center, HOR 1 VRT 155 left, VRT 135 right, forgot up, and HOR 114 down. I got Maker Matrix controller values HOR 131 VRT 137 center, HOR 14 VRT 137 left, VRT 137 right, forgot up, HOR 130 down. I cant tell for sure if the maker directions are accurate from my thumbstick pictures I took. Thumb covers the stick. The best results were in the menu. The original controller still makes the menu move automatically but you can work with it. The maker matrix did the same for the first few seconds. Now, the noise has stopped, its not moving automatically, you can control the scroll pretty good, and even select and start a game. I dont think this controller or any 8 or more direction controller was made for pac-man. Had a hard time in that. Seemed to work great on Defender. I get the impression that it generally works now. Maybe I should turn the pot a hair left. I didn't want to mess with it while the power is on.How do you you calibrate the joysticks? When you use Pete's test, do you check values then press calibrate to lock them on? Should you calibrate each time you use the 5200 before playing games?

Edited February 3, 2020 by orion1052003

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The most ideal way to adjust the pokey trimmer on the 5200 involves using a controller loop back testing board. But when that isn't handy, this is what I do:

 

- fire up Pete's test cart and go to the Pokey adjust values screen that has the Green background

- take my controller apart but only enough to remove the top shell so that the flex circuit mylar and joystick pots are visible.

- turn the bottom joystick pot to the down 6 o'clock position

- turn the top joystick pot to the left 9 o'clock position

- turn the Pokey trimmer on the 5200 console so that the HOR value = 112 and the VRT value = 116

 

That is what I adjust 5200s to that come to me for service as that matches the Atari service spec for the adjustment values. Of course this is adjusting the Pokey value to the controller you have plugged in and even the controllers can be out of alignment and need to be adjusted seperately. That is why the controller loop back tester board exists as it provides static set values from the controller ports to adjust the pokey trimmer too.

 

I should do a video on that sometime by itself. I do have this adjustment process at the tail end of my 5200 controller refurb video but it might not hurt to do a smaller separate one on it as that might be really helpful.

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

1 hour ago, orion1052003 said:

When you use Pete's test, do you check values then press calibrate to lock them on?

No, it’s much simpler than that. Adjust the POKEY until you have a reading in the range recommended by the Atari 5200 Field Service Manual - 112 plus or minus 1 for the horizontal reading, and <125 for the vertical.  In actual practice building several dozen of these controllers and testing them individually, if you get a horizontal reading of 110 to about 120 on the horizontal, your controller will work as expected with nearly all 5200 games. No, it won’t be fun to play CENTIPEDE OR MISSILE COMMAND with a short-throw, self-centering thumbstick.  However, for maze games, platformers, tube shooters like GYRUSS, etc. the controller works great. In practice as well, games generally seem much less sensitive the the vertical axis measurement.

 

So, again, simplify things: load up PETE’S TEST CART. Connect the thumbstick controller and adjust the POKEY resistor until you get into the range above. Done.

[orion1052003]

It seems pretty good now..but I should adjust one more time to get the values you said. Its a nice looking controller, and it is definitely easier to use than the original! Cable likes to fall off the top of the controller. The Maker Matrix controller seems much more useful for playing 5200 games than the original just trying it out a bit. I would recommend it.

[alexparr2006]

On 8/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, smbaker said:

Just wanted to let folks know that I do currently have plenty of bare pcboards on hand. You can find them from me on eBay, or you can order directly from here on the forum ($10 per bare pcboard plus shipping here on the forum). 

 

Yes I am talking to DrBenkman about supplying him with a quantity of boards that he could use to fabricate completed controllers for people. This would be a great service to the community as I know there is a demand.

 

Scott

Will PCBs with all the components be up for sale again? I want to buy a 5200 but don't want to risk wasting money on a broken controller

[MakerMatrix]

On 7/19/2020 at 9:44 PM, alexparr2006 said:

Will PCBs with all the components be up for sale again? I want to buy a 5200 but don't want to risk wasting money on a broken controller

I have enough PCBs and parts on hand to build about 25 of these.  I've had enough requests trickling in over the last few months that it's probably time to go ahead and get started on a short run of these.  And if you or a friend are handy with a soldering iron, you can always get the board from Scott and order the BOM off Digikey, et. al to DIY one.

[the Goat]

What do people think about adding a d-pad to this controller design?

 

The d-pad would be in addition to the analog stick.  Pressing a direction on the d-pad would be equivalent to pressing the analog stick to 75% in the same direction.  Or some other fixed analog value.  I think the d-pad control would help out in several games.

[+DrVenkman]

6 hours ago, the Goat said:

What do people think about adding a d-pad to this controller design?

 

The d-pad would be in addition to the analog stick.  Pressing a direction on the d-pad would be equivalent to pressing the analog stick to 75% in the same direction.  Or some other fixed analog value.  I think the d-pad control would help out in several games.

The short throw of the Sparkfun thumbstick is honestly very much like a D-pad already in 4-way games.

 

If you want to use a D-pad, the professionally-manufactured D-pad on the Genesis 3-button controller is way better than almost anything you'd be able to rig up yourself, and you can use one with one of Scott's Masterplay clone controllers, complete with 2-fire buttons.