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Ranger03

Why is the Vic 20 so hard to program for?

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TI basic was great in terms of the extra commands but it was really too slow to do much with game wise thanks to the TI's design of double interpretation.

 

It's great to see so much love here for the humble VIC. It's so often overlooked because of the 64 but the VIC 20 was the vanguard of Commodore's success in the home computer market and was a great machine in it's day. I know I loved mine when I had it and loved programming on it.

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That would have been me. I had a Coco, and I read Hot Coco and (occasionally) Rainbow -- the latter had very limited newsstand distribution.

 

 

Really? My dad was able to get The Rainbow both in Wisconsin and in Nevada in the early 1980s. I don't remember what stores but when he had the cash and the issue interested him (or me-August was the Games issue), he had no problem picking one up.

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Really? My dad was able to get The Rainbow both in Wisconsin and in Nevada in the early 1980s.

 

In the 1980s, I lived in a small Canadian city (Halifax, Nova Scotia). There was exactly one place in town that stocked Rainbow magazine -- it was a specialty shop that sold nothing but imported magazines. It was very inconveniently located, especially for someone without a car.

 

My Parents and I would visit Maine and Massachusetts about once or twice per year, and I always bought the current issues of Rainbow and (during its brief existence) Color Computer Magazine when I was there. I had no difficulty finding it at whatever local mall we were shopping at. Multi-part articles were the bane of my existence, as I would only ever see one of the parts.

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Were those magazines not possible to subscribe to, or perhaps the publishers wouldn't accept subscribers outside of the USA?

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Were those magazines not possible to subscribe to, or perhaps the publishers wouldn't accept subscribers outside of the USA?

 

Honestly, I do not remember. I'm sure that there was some good reason why I did not subscribe, but after about 34 years I have long forgotten what it was.

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Were those magazines not possible to subscribe to, or perhaps the publishers wouldn't accept subscribers outside of the USA?

I just checked in "The Third Rainbow Book of Adventures" (it happened to be close as my mags are downstairs, and I can't do stairs right now) and they have a subscription page in it. It was $38 for Canadian subscription.

 

I think my Dad just got issues he wanted. We couldn't afford much back then so dropping $31 for a whole year might have been too much at one time.

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I'll look around next time I'm at the old house and see if I've any of those old "type-in" game/program books left from the VIC. I learned a lot from those, and then later changing stuff to see what happens.

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It's really hard for me to imagine typing on a screen no bigger than Doom's HUD

 

Then don't. We get it. You don't like the VIC-20 because it's screen is too small and you don't like using POKE commands. Sorry a 1981 computer isn't up to your standards. Time to move on methinks.

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what gives you the idea that i don't like it? personally, i program on it time to time and i view it as one of the easier systems to get used to. The c64 is harder for me to program for and the plus 4 and PET are my personal favorites due to the Latter's BASIC 3.5 and the Former's Green monitor which evokes Aliens levels of nostalgia, besides there's also zork. I'm just curious as to why Commodore insisted on a ton of POKE statements for graphics. if Jack had paid 3 dollars per sale, i would have an easier time. But it is a fun little computer for what it's worth.

 

I will buy one in the future, because i'm cool with old tech. Sorry you got the wrong idea about me

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Hmmm, let me see how I could ever think you didn't like the VIC-20? Well here are your very own words...

 

"..the Vic 20 is less of a "Wonder Computer" and more of a stop gap. Poke this, Poke that, no direct access to graphics or sound, The character set is woefully small and cramped and it didn't have a built in monitor...3.5k ram is ridiculous...as far as graphics and sound access, the Vic 20 stunk...why is the vic's character font so damned large?...I hope the kids had fun with all the Poke's...if commodore has supplied a better version of BASIC, i wouldn't be having so much trouble...too many pokes, just too many"

 

Anyone reading that would not have said 'wow that guys a fan!'. So I apologize if I got a different impression from your posts here.

 

Also how is it (VIC 20)an easier system to get used to than the 64? Their basic is the same as that on the PET. All the machines are the same to learn on and program. If anything the PET is most lacking as you cannot define your own graphics.

Edited by Arnuphis

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...

 

Anyone reading that would not have said 'wow that guys a fan!'. So I apologize if I got a different impression from your posts here.

 

Hey go easy there... he's trying to port the classic game Bioshock to an 8-bit as you can see from the demo release:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/blog/738/entry-14957-demo-released/

 

Given the sample code shared I'd have to agree with the OP. No way could Commodore V2 BASIC handle that level of programmatic complexity.

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For the record, I'm the one who detested the Vic. Totally bought into the prelaunch bunk that it was at least on-par or better than Apples and Ataris in terms of performance and capabilities :roll:

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I'm just curious as to why Commodore insisted on a ton of POKE statements for graphics.

 

Are you really? Because it seems that the answer is rather obvious... :ponder:

 

if Jack had paid 3 dollars per sale, i would have an easier time...

 

 

You see? You knew it all along. Commodore was trying to make money in a cut-throat business, not make your life easier.

 

As one who owned a Commodore 64 back when in the early 80s, I agree that it felt like some cruel joke that the machine had some of the best hardware capabilities in the industry, in terms of graphics and sound synthesis, yet provided no interface to them other than the rudimentary direct memory-mapped access to the chips.

 

Yet even after Simon BASIC, Turtle Graphics, Graphics BASIC, MetaBASIC, and the myriad other extensions to the crude language were released; most games were still programmed in Assembly Language, or in BASIC with PEEKs and POKEs.

 

So yeah, it would have been great had Commodore invested some of their viciously acquired profits into making our lives easier, but apparently, that didn't make their machines any less capable or popular.

 

-dZ.

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Hey go easy there... he's trying to port the classic game Bioshock to an 8-bit as you can see from the demo release:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/blog/738/entry-14957-demo-released/

 

Given the sample code shared I'd have to agree with the OP. No way could Commodore V2 BASIC handle that level of programmatic complexity.

 

Thanks! That had me chuckling. You are right. It would require far too many POKE commands to do that justice on CBM Basic ;)

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me or him?

 

Do you really need to ask ? I believe I'm not the only one who really wonders if you are knowingly trolling or legitimately mentally challenged. Based on your posts it must be one or the other. If you really are legitimately mentally challenged I don't mean to sound cruel, I have some autistic qualities, but this forum may not be the best place for your style of posting. Your previous posts here and other threads at this form have likely caused others at this forum to ignore you.

Edited by thetick1
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Do you really need to ask ? I believe I'm not the only one who really wonders if you are knowingly trolling or legitimately mentally challenged. Based on your posts it must be one or the other. If you really are legitimately mentally challenged I don't mean to sound cruel, I have some autistic qualities, but this forum may not be the best place for your style of posting. Your previous posts here and other threads at this form have likely caused others at this forum to ignore you.

that was not my intent.

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Do you really need to ask ? I believe I'm not the only one who really wonders if you are knowingly trolling or legitimately mentally challenged. Based on your posts it must be one or the other. If you really are legitimately mentally challenged I don't mean to sound cruel, I have some autistic qualities, but this forum may not be the best place for your style of posting. Your previous posts here and other threads at this form have likely caused others at this forum to ignore you.

I am not trolling, however, if that is the general consensus than i will try to change. I signed up to learn and share knowledge, not to troll. I deeply apologize

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I am not trolling, however, if that is the general consensus than i will try to change. I signed up to learn and share knowledge, not to troll. I deeply apologize

I know you are enthusiastic about programming, even if it is BASIC (which some may think is a waste of time) but you have to stick to one platform and learn it. That's the only way you'll get a game done.

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well, i am using Twine in that regard, sadly i have to paste most of the dialogue for each option and with bioshock...not possible.

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well, i am using Twine in that regard, sadly i have to paste most of the dialogue for each option and with bioshock...not possible.

 

Ah .. now that makes sense. Your enthusiasm is commendable. I would suspect many here would not consider your effort as programming. We all use the tools available to us (or invent our own) as we all have varying degrees of knowledge and experience. Everyone has to learn to walk before they can run. Good luck.

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Also if you're asking for help and get some hints how to do something, try to follow up on those hints, ask questions if you don't understand the answer but don't plow your own way in tangent with your question and the given answers. Another thing is that if you post code fragments, try to execute it before posting so you have eliminated the most obvious errors like a couple of times when you have tried to insert values greater than 255 into a single byte of memory which is impossible and the interpreter would let you know right away.

 

You may still have issues you can ask about and get help with, but if your posts are full of cryptical errors which gives the rest of us a feeling this is someone who is winging it all the time, it will be harder to take your posts seriously.

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was machine language even necessary for the plus 4 or PET? the graphics keys are right there and basic 3.5 eliminates most problems. even the 128 is an improvement (unless you are programming the graphics chip)

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