Do you find yourself drifting away from the scene?

[John Stamos Mullet]

I recently listened to a podcast with VJ Mark Goodman. Remember him from the first days of MTV? People were saying the same criticisms to MTV and the VJs back in the early 80s. Claims it was shitty TV, the VJs weren't "real" and who would wanna watch 5 min music videos all day!? They ended up changing the world.

And now they all but no longer exist. MTV doesn't show music videos anymore, and nobody watches them.

 

The rest of your post makes a lot of sense, and I know having gone to college for audio and video production that it is indeed a difficult and tedious job. But I don't think making an MTV comparison is really apt in 2018.

[atarilovesyou]

 

I think YouTube monetization, at least in its current form since 2013, has killed off a lot of the channels I used to watch from Classic Game Room to Turbo Views. Same goes for patreon.

 

It ironically brings me a new appreciation for Irate gamer who did all the editing and special effects himself and basically almost never asked for money. He did it for fun and for his fans, who asked him if THEY COULD give him money. Now that's how it should be!

You had me up until you mentuoned Irate Gamer...lol, yes, he did use a lot of effects, but hardly was a pioneer. He ripped off AVGN big time and was possbly the first coat tail rider in the retro gaming youtube scene. Won't rant too much but man...did not like that channel.

[Metal Jesus]

And now they all but no longer exist. MTV doesn't show music videos anymore, and nobody watches them.

 

Mark Goodman talks about how MTV made the conscience decision in the 90s to not follow the age of their original audience as they grow up...but to purposely stick to the 18-25 age group... which means they will constantly alienate their original watchers but change with the times.

[atarilovesyou]

 

Mark Goodman talks about how MTV made the conscience decision in the 90s to not follow the age of their original audience as they grow up...but to purposely stick to the 18-25 age group... which means they will constantly alienate their original watchers but change with the times.

You mean they pulled a Metallica before Metallica pulled a Metallica??

[Jess Ragan]

VH1 was supposed to fill that vacuum. But then VH1 fell down the reality show hole, so they started VH1 Classic to give viewers a taste of what VH1 used to be like, which in turn was what MTV used to be like. In a few years you'll have to dig eight channels down to find the MTV you watched as a teenager.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Jess Ragan

[+Cafeman]

We don't need MTV or VH1 anymore, we have YouTube. Lots of videos and new musical content!

[Atari Pogostick]

You had me up until you mentuoned Irate Gamer...lol, yes, he did use a lot of effects, but hardly was a pioneer. He ripped off AVGN big time and was possbly the first coat tail rider in the retro gaming youtube scene. Won't rant too much but man...did not like that channel.

 

I know that Irate is polarizing but he was one of the first to put effort on effects in YouTube and he also did it by himself, which let to the droughts in content later down the road.

 

Also while we are talking about gaming YouTube celebrities I am reminded of the sad sad tale of the Spoony one.

[Atari Pogostick]

Spoony basically threw his viewers under the bus and is still asking for money. Faking a lot of problems that suddenly disappear, and doing donation streams. He still has his Patreon up despite providing no content. if you had followed his forums before they closed, or his currently active reddit, people are pissed at what he's doing.

[derFunkenstein]

I had one of those moga's, didn't seem so bad at first but the model I had would run up against screwball compatibility problems. After that I got this steelseries free mobile device and it was smooth sailing picking up both on android and iOS. it's tiny but comfortable still thankfully and excellent for anything swipe play does a disservice to.

As it turns out, mine doesn't work with my new phone. It pairs but the Moga app (required for mine but more recent PowerA controllers are just Bluetooth Xinput devices) is ancient and doesn't work on Oreo. So I need to replace it. Only question is do I go with a more universal controller or do I go the Moto mod route? I'll have the phone for two years or more, and the extra battery capacity would be nice but I'll be taking my phone out of the case to use the mod.

[Gamemoose]

Well, let's demodernize this concept. Let's look at YouTube videos like street performers. Low barrier to entry (unless cities/towns have ordinances against public performances) and it's you, your ability, your time and people. Many performers lay their hats/instrument cases/whatever out for those who wish to tip them for the performance. Heck, this is a pretty regular thing you see at Ren Faires and you have to pay to get in those.

 

So are those folks "begging" for money? In my mind, no. They are taking their time to perform for you and you can toss them some cash in appreciation or in some cases buy a CD from them if you want to continue to enjoy their music. When I think "begging", I'm seeing someone standing on a street corner holding a sign asking for food or someone walking up to you asking for money. In comparison to the musician or YouTube folk, they haven't produced anything or aren't doing anything in return for you-they want/need money for whatever. Two totally separate situations that shouldn't be comparable.

 

(Note to those who may sensitive-please know I am NOT looking down on the homeless/less fortunate/whathaveyou. The above is a blunt comparison of what many see as "begging"-YouTube folks asking for subs or Patreon, etc. to actual begging in the classic sense).

 

We live in an age where anyone can create content and show it to the world easily without needing big bucks or a manager/publisher/etc. to get stuff out there. If they have an audience, why not ask for some cash to help make it easier to publish your work?

 

The universe knows I'd like to make more videos than my one I made almost 8 years ago. When your time is tied up in life, it can be easy to let others say "it's just a hobby" and get you to down play your own personal time to take care of everyone else. But it makes the justification easier when you say "it's a hobby that I love and I also make a little scratch from it." It puts a feather in your cap that your stuff is good enough to earn some cash and that's envious. I don't get any cash from my dinky video but I still get giddy when someone watches it.

[Eltigro]

Is Biff part of "the scene?" If so, I'm not just drifting, I'm paddling faster.

[BassGuitari]

This entire conversation is Exhibit A as to why I feel increasingly alienated from the larger retrogaming scene.

 

[John Stamos Mullet]

You mean they pulled a Metallica before Metallica pulled a Metallica?

I just ignore everything that happened after the Black Album and before Death Magnetic, it's like they broke up for a while and then got back together. .

[VectorGamer]

I just ignore everything that happened after the Black Album

 

And Justice For All for me

[JaguarVision]

It's actually much harder for a new guy to enter the YouTube scene now then before. From 2005-2010 you had a lot of fresh ideas, people riding the waves, people who got popular through shock or controversy, political punditry, and sound/video equipment had vast differences in quality.

 

Now, everyone has a decent mic for the most part, video editing is much easier, templates for after effects are widely available, you'll have 200,000 other accounts covering the same topic, game, or news you do, and webcams in the lower price ranges are adequate, and even some phones provide a good facecam.

 

These days you kind of have to have a unique idea, go in being controversial which could possibly have the reverse effect, have connections, or have lots of disposable income.

 

A lot of channels, especially gaming channels, aren't really growing, and if they are it's very, very, slowly. Guys like AVGN, CGR, GG, SGB, TF, Continue? Had started there YouTube channels 5-10 years ago and are basically stuck.

 

For guys like AVGN, GG, JonTron, this isn't much of an issue since these guys already had made a lifetimes worth of money and still have enough of an audience to make money off of with regular uploads. No reason to beg for money.

 

But for guys like CGR who have 30,000-150,000 subscribers they have been putting out content but haven't really gone anywhere for years. So I kind of don't really mind this group asking for money to be honest. With YouTube now starting to consolidate more and more they kind of need to ask for money.

 

You also have to realize that group of YouTube creators is hit hardest by the video takedowns and demonetization as well. JonTron and Pewdie getting three videos demonetized for that weeks earnings is nothing. For guys like CGR or guys in that 30,000-150,000 subscriber range? Their screwed because they just lost a big part of their income.

 

I guess I'm kind of in the middle of the consensus in the thread so far. I think if they are a certain size, I don't mind asking for support and Patreon. For the big guys though, I don't like it.

[Lord Thag]

This entire conversation is Exhibit A as to why I feel increasingly alienated from the larger retrogaming scene.

 

You and me both.

 

I play old video games because I never stopped liking them. So much of the larger 'community' is about egos, social media popularity, and money, none of which I give a crap about. I'm here for the games, the people, and the good times. That's it.

[Ransom]

I find myself drifting away from man-babies, drama-queens, and the rest of the people who want everything to be all about them.

 

But as for playing video games, I'm not drifting away from that.

[Keatah]

I don't much care for those kickstarters. At first, like most of us, I was hoping they'd be a viable way to fund new consoles and get them to market. Nearly all of them degrade into emulators on underpowered hardware. And lots of drama is generated in the process. Some like ataribox are just fronts for other business activities.

 

I group that segment of the hobby as social activity. These projects have the same atmosphere as any social media shitshow.

[82-T/A]

 

And Justice For All for me

 

True story... when I was 16, I seriously considered getting the heads of all four Metallica guys tattooed on my shoulder.

 

SOOOOOO glad I didn't do that. Nothing against people with tattoos (I have none), but that would have been suuuuuuuuuuuuuch a bad decision. It really just proves that when you're young, you're a total f**king dumbass.

 

I'm totally amazed at kids who make it to ~20 without having done something insanely idiotic. And I have REALLY good, hard-working, intelligent parents, who provided me with lots of opportunities, and lots of encouragement. Hahah... so God only knows what the fuck.

 

But I made it out of adolescence without dying, or doing something too stupid.

[John Stamos Mullet]

 

True story... when I was 16, I seriously considered getting the heads of all four Metallica guys tattooed on my shoulder.

 

SOOOOOO glad I didn't do that. Nothing against people with tattoos (I have none), but that would have been suuuuuuuuuuuuuch a bad decision. It really just proves that when you're young, you're a total f**king dumbass.

 

I'm totally amazed at kids who make it to ~20 without having done something insanely idiotic. And I have REALLY good, hard-working, intelligent parents, who provided me with lots of opportunities, and lots of encouragement. Hahah... so God only knows what the fuck.

 

But I made it out of adolescence without dying, or doing something too stupid.

if you had done it including Cliff, it would have been fine. Jason, not so much.

[82-T/A]

if you had done it including Cliff, it would have been fine. Jason, not so much.

 

I mean no disrespect to Cliff Burton, but out of the 4-5 real Metallica albums, I like "Master of Puppets" and "...And Justice For All" much more than I do "Kill 'Em All" or "Ride the Lightning." I kind of feel like Jason Newstead made those albums what they were, being that everything else was the same.

 

The Album with the Don't Tread On Me that everyone calls "black," I like that one a lot too... of course, everyone does. I have no idea what comes after that. When I bought Load back in 1996... I was basically done, and never really bought another Metallica album after that.

 

Slayer was awesome back then too, and so was Pantera… but they were a bit more shouty. I was more into Nirvana / the grunge type music, but I couldn't deny some of the really heavy stuff was good. Never got into Manson or anything like that.

[Leatherrebel5150]

Just throwing out the information. Metallica has 10 albums. Cliff played on Kill'em All, Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets, he died on the tour of Puppets. Jason played on Justice

[82-T/A]

Just throwing out the information. Metallica has 10 albums. Cliff played on Kill'em All, Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets, he died on the tour of Puppets. Jason played on Justice

 

Damn! You're right! I always thought Jason Newstead was what helped define the difference in style after Ride the Lightning. I had no idea that Cliff Burton was also on Master of Puppets.

 

Man, this is an old conversation for me... I can't even remember the last time I listened to Metallica. I listen to talk radio all the time, and on the occasion that I do turn on the radio, it's because my daughter is in the car, and I put on some bebop channel that has all the new weird songs.

 

Oh, and not true. Metallica only has 5 albums... those other 5 you speak of are garbage and not worthy of being called Metallica... haha.

 

I stopped listening to Metallica after Load. I know they had Re-Load, but I have no idea what it sounds like. Hard to imagine there were THREE MORE after that. They must have been so totally unimpressive that no one ever talks about them.

 

 

Last best concert with them was Lollapalooza 1996.

[agb]

So many interesting topics in one thread. Read and loved every comment. My thoughts:

I am more into retro gaming than ever before mostly due to AtariAge with the HSCs, Activision Patch Quest, market place, and so many helpful members.

I love the plug and plays. Have a couple of Atari flashbacks, Atari paddle plug and play and Just got the NES mini.

Love the YouTube videos every time I get a new 2600 I like to watch a video for two minutes to help get me started. Glad folks can make money doing them.

Metallica, though Load is my 8th favorite, I still think it is really good. And for those who havent heard the last two, you should, both great.

[Bill Loguidice]

As the essence of retrogaming is being expanded and muddled by modern mainstream millennial media I find myself looking for greater, richer, niches in this hobby. Greater challenges. So in drifting away from things overdone and commonplace - I've found some, but not a significant amount.

 

Some examples might be..

 

Lesser interest in homebrews. They're popping up like flies.

 

No interest in retrogaming apps, especially single-game apps.

 

No desire to play on mobile platforms.

 

Not interested in limited editions because companies are trying too hard to make these and they're still all the same.

 

Little interest in retro-console remakes, they don't get everything right, only about 70% of it. And their methodologies are weird, aside from the usual cost-cutting techniques involved. And crowdfunded ones are even worse, if they ever make it to retail.

 

And of course there are other reasons which aren't of interest to a retrogaming forum.

 

 

I have to agree with this to a certain degree. After collecting for most of my life - since childhood really when I didn't really think/know of it as collecting - I got rid of most of my collection a bit earlier this year. I loved that stuff, of course, and it served me well, but there was just way, way too much of it, and I ended up not being able to use it all, or even most of it, anymore. (A big problem of course for me is that I love it all, videogames and computers, both vintage and modern, so that's a big appetite). I did keep about a half dozen vintage computers and consoles, but with minimalist setups that I don't plan to evolve much. I'll also continue to keep an eye on FPGA and other multi-system solutions to replace vintage equipment or platforms I no longer own.

 

I've also written enough books (and the movie, of course) to satisfy what I wanted to creatively get out of that way. Other than updates to previous books at special request of publishers (like Vintage Game Consoles 2.0, which I'm due to finish in February) and the occasional special project, I have no interest in actively pursuing writing more videogame/computer-related books. And now that working for a videogame company that specializes in classic gaming is my primary job these days, I have quite a bit on my plate in that area to sap my energy/interest in related projects anyway.

 

At 45, and soon to be 46, I've put in a good four decades with this stuff, so I feel like it's kind of mission-accomplished at this point. I'm satisfied. Vintage gaming (and computers and related collecting and enthusiasm) is as big and accessible as it ever was - and you add to that the endless new stuff - it's a LOT to keep track of. There's just so much to experience and enjoy. Even just 10 years ago, things were far easier to manage and keep track of.

 

So I guess in terms of the "scene," I'm still involved quite a bit, but in a different way than times past. More on terms that are more preferable/desirable to me at this point in my life. Like working out, for the rest of my life I'll always be super into videogame and computer stuff - and certainly with a high percentage focus on the classics - but I do think I reached an evolutionary fork in the road, both mentally and in other, tangible ways, not that long ago. That's OK.

 

And yes, I'm one of those people who doesn't reject the new stuff. I have all the current consoles, several recent computers, several VR setups (I even do game reviews for HTC and their Vive), and just upgraded to the iPhone XS Max. As a child of the 70s/80s, I think I would look to this time in absolute wonder. I have nothing bad to say about today's technology. I'm all-in and enjoy just about every minute of it. I'm thrilled that vintage gaming and computing can come along for the ride.

 

In terms of the community, I must admit that it does sadden me at times a bit that certain segments reject modern stuff so enthusiastically. It makes me feel like they're not being true to their younger selves who fell in love with whatever videogame or computer technology they were passionate about in the past. But then again, I just talked about all my own changes/evolution in thinking/perspective, so I guess I should do better in understanding that they've gone through changes of their own. I guess that's what's supposed to happen anyway versus staying stagnant.