Do you find yourself drifting away from the scene?

[Eltigro]

Yeah... the cutscenes can vary wildly in quality and value... Some great cutscenes really move the story along and fill in backstory and give purpose to the player's actions... some do nothing but add cringe... anyone else remember the laughing cutscene from Final Fantasy X?

[John Stamos Mullet]

Barry! Where's Barry?

 

Great game - awful acting/cutscenes.

[BassGuitari]

Barry! Where's Barry?

 

Great game - awful acting/cutscenes.

"What is this?"

"What is it?"

"What IS this?"

"What?!"

"WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?"

 

"...Jill sandwich."

 

[+wongojack]

I hope this is not Chris' blood

[HoshiChiri]

Changing up games-

 

"I should've been the one to fill your Dark Soul with LIIIIIIIIGHT!"

[Rocket Man]

 

Oh, I can explain the ad thing quite simply- it allows one to 'pay' for their content with their time & attention instead of money.

 

Remember when TV was broadcast via antenna? That was 'free'- still is if you buy a digital one & can grab some signals. But nothing is truly free... you pay by watching ads. Companies like ads becuase they raise brand awareness & bring in new customers. People like ads becuase they can pay not with their limited dollars, but with their time (which they perceive themselves as having more of.) Yes, I just said people like ads, even though they say they hate them. It's the coffee thing all over again. I learned that one watching Jim Sterling (who, by the way, doesn't monetize his videos at all in favor of a pure patreon system- I'll come back to that). When you bring people into focus groups and ask them what kind of coffee they like, they say they like a rich, dark roast from freshly ground beans. When you look at what sells- it's bland, milky, and often instant. See, we care what the people around us think, so when asked what we want, we often say what we think others want to hear- not what we truly want. Saying you want thick, bitter coffee that took you 20 minutes to grind and prepare sounds good- what a connoisseur you are! But in reality? Most people would rather microwave coffee-flavored powdered milk they can drink quickly & get on with their day. So- people say they hate ads becuase it sounds good- how independent you are! But in reality? You don't want to pay money for programs on top of the internet bill, so a few seconds of ad to peck at your phone or eat your dinner is a great deal!

 

One thing I am curious about- you keep complaining about ads, but keep adding in 'and THEN they stick their hands out for Patreon!' like it's just as bad if not worse, even though that's pretty equivalent to the hat/instrument case in front of the street performer. So- which is it? Is monetizing videos for ad revenue bad? Is Patreon bad? Are you OK with the likes of Jim Sterling, who only asks for Patreon & rarely directly (just sticking a link in the endcard, and occasionally mentioning it in the closing monolgue?) What about Game Theory, who's gone the other way and only does AdSense with no other shilling involved? In fact, they're newest video says YouTube is encouraging them to take on additional monetization by becoming a membership channel, and they said they wanted to ask their viewers first if they'd even want that. Are these guys doing it right... or do you just hate the idea of anyone on YouTube expecting payment at all, via donation or ad?

 

I understand why Youtube is setup the way it is. Of course it's simple: Youtube makes money from Advertising companies, simply by allowing their users to create content that draws crowds, which in turn makes them rich = win/win for Youtube. It also allows "content creators" to feel like they have their own television show, in turn creating hilarious Egos, that further fall prey to the allure of easy Ad Revenue - when in fact they're being exploited by Youtube; because they don't get nearly as big a piece of the pie as Youtube gets. It's quite simple, but unfortunately: most fall for it, including metal flake. Take him for example, if he was running his own website, he would be making 100% of the Ad Revenue on his site, 'if' he was getting enough hits. But because he's scared to incur the cost of that overhead and possible fail "at his business", he takes the easy route of "running his video business" on Youtubes' back.

 

TV has always been free for me, because I've never paid for Cable, and never will. I don't watch Ads, so you're wrong, it is free for me. I mute the tv or do something else when an Ad comes on. I only watch tv when I'm sitting down to eat, sometimes. I usually watch Youtube these days, and same thing: when an Ad comes on, I look away or skip it if possible. The rest of your paragraph is down to opinion and life perception, same as mine is with regard to my claim, "that people hate Ads", so I suppose we'll simply have to disagree on this. Ads are cheesey to me 9/10: once in a blue moon I'll enjoy one, doesn't mean I'm going to support the product though.

 

Asking for money via Patreon and Paypal donations is not the same thing as someone asking for money on the street. On the street, the Vendor receives 100% of their money and is footing the entire cost for their "days work". The time/cost it took to get to the location to where they decided to play their music, the cost for meals that day, the time/cost to return home, etc. So no, it's not equivalent. Also, Patreon is an immoral company, as is Paypal. Anyone who uses either of them is beholden to their ideological beliefs and can be denied service at any time. One who works on the street is only beholden to the law of the land. Big difference, but you didn't think of that... no worries.

 

I explained, in depth, why I dislike people who "make a living" from Ad Revenue on Youtube. Same goes for Patreon and Paypal. If someone makes videos and people want to donate, they should simply send checks or wire transfers. I understand most people are lazy, and using services like Paypal is somehow more convenient... but I digress. If someone is truly "running a business", they will do it entirely on their own, not on the backs of a SJW company like Youtube.

 

 

With regard to the thread: I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but the main factors that truly turned me away from the Collecting Scene, were the ever increasing silly prices on Ebay, going up every year, combined with people on Youtube making videos, that somehow had a negative perception on supply; which artificially and negatively influenced demand for a lot of titles, spread across multiple systems. Keio Flying Squadron for the Sega CD for example: there are asshats on Ebay, right now, asking $1000-$2000 for it , when it was literally a $250 game a few years ago. The fact that fools will pay anywhere near this price is enough to turn me away, from the Collecting Scene.

 

I've seen a lot of folks blame metal flake for this, but I don't give him that credit: there are a host of other Youtubers who started that wave. The Angry Nerd (I think that's what he's called, don't remember, Cinnemassacre or something) had a big hand in it. Flakes like that pat guy had a big hand in it too. It used to be awesome to find great deals, in the wild, and online... until money hungry jerkoffs ran wild with prices. That aspect of, "The Scene" has long been dead to me. I lambast it, but at the same time I'm quite thankful it happened, because I learned about Flashcarts this way... and have in turn saved a ton of money, and my Gaming experience has improved ten fold.

[Keatah]

The thing that has turned me off of Apple II collecting is, you guessed it, the price. Some titles are upwards of $750. That's a night on the town for godsakes!

 

I do take solace in the fact that I still have my childhood disks of these. AND that those high-priced ones are languishing on ebay. Sitting there for like a year and not moving. Kudos to the people NOT buying them!

 

Back in the day we'd have schoolyard strategy session discussions and all that. Who got the hi-score? How is this one level completed? I finished this level!! I saw this new game!! ..and stuff like that. Today there is less of that. A lot of talk seems (to me) to revolve around how to get the games working. And which publisher is making game XYZ available on what hardware or mini-console - hot items those mini-consoles.

 

Well that's just my take on the scene at the moment. Next week it might be different.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Keatah

[Bill Loguidice]

A lot of this sounds like complaints about the scene growing and getting out of hand. Obviously the former means bringing in more people who want more stuff, which drives up the prices, and the latter means too much stuff to stay on top of, e.g., it used to be easy to get all the homebrews that were coming out for a particular system, but now it's extraordinarily difficult to stay on top of it all for many systems.

 

I think a lot of us liked it better when it was a smaller group of us and things were more manageable. It's kind of like geek culture in general. It used to be something that was practiced - often quietly - by the "dorks," but now nearly everyone is free to "geek out" on all kinds of things. It's mainstream, when before it was niche.

 

I guess it's kind of like we have to share something that was uniquely ours in the past, and that obviously makes it feel "different" and not quite as special. Again, evolve and adapt, or understandably get increasingly grumpy about it all.

 

As much as I say I love everything about how things work today - and it's true - you can be sure I still miss many aspects of how the "scene" was in the past.

[Keatah]

Thing Is it appears a lot of folks are into the hobby only half-way or just for whatever money can be skimmed from it. Back in the 1970's it was a new art form and the demographics were different. People into it were into it all the way.

[Tanooki]

That right there is the best reason for the drift if there ever was, Apple, Nintendo, whatever. The demographics. Those who bought in the 70s-90s on all this stuff and still bought into and through the 00's had things a certain way, and then in came those looking to skim off of it as much as possible for those at first into it for the art form of it, then as more jump in, to just take advantage of those fresh off the boat. It causes you to just give up, get a kit, download whatever instead, just to not feed into it. It kind of pulls you down, and then perhaps away in a drift that can be bitter, fed up, a bit of both or something else. Once you demotivate it out of someone enough, it's very hard to get remotivated once more.

[Rocket Man]

The thing that has turned me off of Apple II collecting is, you guessed it, the price. Some titles are upwards of $750. That's a night on the town for godsakes!

 

I do take solace in the fact that I still have my childhood disks of these. AND that those high-priced ones are languishing on ebay. Sitting there for like a year and not moving. Kudos to the people NOT buying them!

 

Back in the day we'd have schoolyard strategy session discussions and all that. Who got the hi-score? How is this one level completed? I finished this level!! I saw this new game!! ..and stuff like that. Today there is less of that. A lot of talk seems (to me) to revolve around how to get the games working. And which publisher is making game XYZ available on what hardware or mini-console - hot items those mini-consoles.

 

Well that's just my take on the scene at the moment. Next week it might be different.

 

What!? Apple games go for that much... that blows my mind. I can't even imagine any of those diskettes still working, so how can someone ask such a silly price is beyond me. $750 is a night out on the town for you, ha... you must be living it large! ; D

 

I know what you mean, I've been after a Mint CIB Saturn for years now, and the same few dorks have been asking the same dumb prices, and no one bites. I don't get it... as if they think some fairy princess is going to come along and give in to their non applicable asking price. It ruins looking up items for me, because jackasses like this are serious with those #'s.

 

Those were great times for me. I grew up in the NES era and Recess was a blast for conversations like this.

 

A lot of this sounds like complaints about the scene growing and getting out of hand. Obviously the former means bringing in more people who want more stuff, which drives up the prices, and the latter means too much stuff to stay on top of, e.g., it used to be easy to get all the homebrews that were coming out for a particular system, but now it's extraordinarily difficult to stay on top of it all for many systems.

 

I think a lot of us liked it better when it was a smaller group of us and things were more manageable. It's kind of like geek culture in general. It used to be something that was practiced - often quietly - by the "dorks," but now nearly everyone is free to "geek out" on all kinds of things. It's mainstream, when before it was niche.

 

I guess it's kind of like we have to share something that was uniquely ours in the past, and that obviously makes it feel "different" and not quite as special. Again, evolve and adapt, or understandably get increasingly grumpy about it all.

 

As much as I say I love everything about how things work today - and it's true - you can be sure I still miss many aspects of how the "scene" was in the past.

 

Nail meet head. You said it... that's how I feel in a nutshell. This also applies to Youtube and not just to Video Gaming.

 

Thing Is it appears a lot of folks are into the hobby only half-way or just for whatever money can be skimmed from it. Back in the 1970's it was a new art form and the demographics were different. People into it were into it all the way.

 

Your comment strikes me in how I feel about Youtube, because in the beginning: Gaming folks were Vlogging for fun and for the love of it, not for the endless chase of Ad Revenue. I remember List videos being about sharing what one thought was cool, and why... until people who only care about viewcounts and money flooded the video scene with their bullshit. I remember after Top List style vids had been around for years, metal flake started making some (good ones too)... but instead of simply listing his picks in his 'info' section like so many other Gamer accounts had before him, he would expect people to watch his entire video. I remember asking him why he didn't simply list the games for those who didn't have time to sit through his videos, and he replied that he was trying to get people to watch the entire video, so he could make more money.

 

Meh, Bill Loguidice nailed it: it was better before everything became saturated.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Rocket Man

[RevEng]

Eternal September. It happens to every scene that moves from niche to popularity. It even happens in waves, where the people who expanded the scene at some previous point, now lament how big and impersonal the scene has become.

Next time try to pick a hobby activity that nobody likes, or could ever like.

 

(or more reasonably, adapt and move on, as Bill suggests)

[Keatah]

That right there is the best reason for the drift if there ever was, Apple, Nintendo, whatever. The demographics. Those who bought in the 70s-90s on all this stuff and still bought into and through the 00's had things a certain way, and then in came those looking to skim off of it as much as possible for those at first into it for the art form of it, then as more jump in, to just take advantage of those fresh off the boat. It causes you to just give up, get a kit, download whatever instead, just to not feed into it. It kind of pulls you down, and then perhaps away in a drift that can be bitter, fed up, a bit of both or something else. Once you demotivate it out of someone enough, it's very hard to get remotivated once more.

 

Attempting to re-build a collection in the late-1990's, early-2000's was daunting. Prices were low, ebay was just getting going, and the market for used consoles was tiny. Besides they weren't my own anyways.

 

I got into the emulation scene at that time instead. And it's become a way of life. For the better. I cannot imagine how much stuff I would have accumulated had I continued down the collector's road. Going back to the physical world would be overwhelming and daunting for me. Without emulation I would have drifted from the scene completely.

 

 

What!? Apple games go for that much... that blows my mind. I can't even imagine any of those diskettes still working, so how can someone ask such a silly price is beyond me.

 

Some of them actually move at that price range. As far as the disks working, you bet they do. And the ones that don't all that's needed is a swabbing of the surface with a Q-Tip. And a good headcleaning. I've got disks from 1978 - when the 13-sector format was out. All A-ok!

[Keatah]

Eternal September. It happens to every scene that moves from niche to popularity. It even happens in waves, where the people who expanded the scene at some previous point, now lament how big and impersonal the scene has become.

 

Yes it does. At the same time I can easily imagine a bunch of grumpy self-entitled old farts bitching about noobs polluting their hideaway.

 

I didn't do much usenet back then. I barely understood it. I barely understood IRC for that matter. It seemed like an always-on D-Dial line full of grumpy old farts feeling self-entitled to command their domain. All haughty and inflated with self-importance.

 

I'll forever picture usenet "gods" like the fat-ass father of the first girl that tried dating me in highschool. Went over to her house once and he was holed up in the corner playing with his PC-XT. And it seemed he would sit there for hours Zipping files and backing up the 5 or 10MB disk. And you absolutely dared not make a peep or bother him or upset the status quo. If you did he might sit on you then throw you out. I was even afraid to open the door for fear the noise or vibration would upset whatever he was doing in his hut. Yes he was a HAM operator too.

 

Some years later I would find this attitude common among sys admins and anything to do with Linux and Unix. They were definitely not welcoming to newcomers.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Keatah

[Atari_Bill]

Thing Is it appears a lot of folks are into the hobby only half-way or just for whatever money can be skimmed from it.

AKA happiestsellerever...schoolgirl...johnsgirl2...magnavoxodysseyspecialist...and a host of others.

[adamchevy]

I find myself and my wallet drifting further into the hobby lately. The 5200 podcasts dried up for me recently, as I exhausted them all to quickly. Now I’m drifting back into the Antic podcast for some more content. It’s time to buy another 8bit. I blame the 5200.

[Keatah]

That's the nice thing about this hobby. You can orbit around and take many different paths. When I get bored of dick'n with old computers I can turn to consoles. When bored of that I can dive into something else!

[RevEng]

Yes it does. At the same time I can easily imagine a bunch of grumpy self-entitled old farts bitching about noobs polluting their hideaway.

 

I didn't do much usenet back then. I barely understood it. I barely understood IRC for that matter. It seemed like an always-on D-Dial line full of grumpy old farts feeling self-entitled to command their domain. All haughty and inflated with self-importance.

I didn't do much usenet back then either, outside of binaries. But Eternal September was a pithy example of the wider phenomena.

 

The "self-entitled old farts" side of it is the one I always keep in mind, even when I'm in the early days club. It's not a good look. In the end, you can welcome the change, drift from the change, or wave your fist at it. Doing latter only manages to get you upset.

 

 

Some years later I would find this attitude common among sys admins and anything to do with Linux and Unix. They were definitely not welcoming to newcomers.

There are a lot of elitists with OSes in general, but there are plenty of exceptions to the rule, especially with projects that target the general public. (e.g. Ubuntu, raspberry pi, etc.)

[Keatah]

When I get riled up about the elitists I almost always forget the other projects. Bias..

[AtariLeaf]

I'm not sure I'm drifting away. Maybe floating away? If I build up enough momentum perhaps I'm sliding away? I'm certainly not driving away or walking away. If my knees give out again I may be crawling away. You know what this seems like too much effort. I'll just stay.

[atarilovesyou]

What? Yoy don't think Paper Mario was funny?...WATCH IT!!!?

[Flojomojo]

What? Yoy don't think Paper Mario was funny?...WATCH IT!!!?

Yecccchhh

[Tanooki]

Paper Mario blech, and not just because of the supposed humor alone.

[atarilovesyou]

Playing it on Wii, surprisingly was in the public library. Never played it before on any platform. Its...different.

[Tanooki]

The only one I found that was not only just passable but very very well made was 1000 Year Door on the Cube. Super Paper Mario on the Wii is a different one, a 2D/3D platformer of sorts.