Are Plug and Plays Dead/Saturated Market now?

[PikoInteractive]

What do you all think?

I am planning on working on my own Plug and play with cartridge slot for the Mega Drive/Genesis.

 

I want to do two versions. First a "budget" one, something solid, but hardware based (no special features like save states etc, simple UI, etc). Later do an emulation version.

 

My take is to really capture the essence of the original Sega Genesis/MD console.

 

Games built in will be commercial quality, from officially released, to new ports and original unlicensed ones. The amounts of games would be lower compared to other Plug and plays, because I want to stay away from bloatware and mini games.

 

We want to do about 25-30 games for the "budget" one and if it is successful and we can do a follow up, do anywhere from 35-45.

 

[Eltigro]

I'm not really that interested in them unless they look cool on the shelf. lol

 

I have a few but they rarely get played. My favorite is the Pac Man one that looks like Pac Man. But again, it's mainly for how it looks on the shelf.

 

I haven't been interested really in things like the NES/SNES mini or the Genesis one or whatever. Honestly the Genesis games are available so many different ways now, that I think that one may be saturated. How many more ways do I need to play Sonic 2? But clearly, those things have sold well, so maybe there is still a market.

 

I was given the 2600 Flashback Portable as a gift and I really like it, but it's mainly because of its portability.

[godslabrat]

What do you all think?

 

I am planning on working on my own Plug and play with cartridge slot for the Mega Drive/Genesis.

 

I want to do two versions. First a "budget" one, something solid, but hardware based (no special features like save states etc, simple UI, etc). Later do an emulation version.

 

My take is to really capture the essence of the original Sega Genesis/MD console.

 

Games built in will be commercial quality, from officially released, to new ports and original unlicensed ones. The amounts of games would be lower compared to other Plug and plays, because I want to stay away from bloatware and mini games.

 

We want to do about 25-30 games for the "budget" one and if it is successful and we can do a follow up, do anywhere from 35-45.

 

If anything, you're hitting the meaty part of the curve. The market has shown that it loves the Nintendo and Atari ones. We're probably a year or two from market saturation, and I think the slide down from this trend will be pretty gradual.

 

Personally, I would love some kind of Genesis HDMI solution. The attempts so far have been clumsy... to say it politely. But I do have Genny games that I want to play on my modern TV, and being able to load ROMs would be good too.

 

I'd be very interested to see where you see this project filling a niche.

[Keatah]

I think that if the market isn't saturated with these sorts of things by now, it will be soon. That's the consensus of me, and the wife and some of my gaming buddies.

 

Thing is these are either looked upon as cute curiosities and very causal fun units, or they are critiqued to high heaven and undergo extreme scrutiny by a vocal minority whom are just loud enough to affect sales. Sometimes these units are expected to replace the original consoles, many people think they're getting a modern-day equivalent of the real console if it has a full-size cartridge slot.

 

Whatever you do, stay away from the emulator/dumper combo. It's chintzy and just doesn't feel right. It's also getting boring (at least for me) to see so many cheap emulator boxes coming out. I'd rather do FPGA or Real Original Hardware, or precision & deluxe Software Emulation on a properly set-up computer - a dedicated computer even - i7 minimum.

[mr_me]

I think there's demand for quality, whether it's software emulation or hardware. That seems to be lacking with genesis stuff. Something that's software emulation with cartridge support should clearly state what cartridges are compatible/incompatible.

[Video]

A genesis with built in games and cart port gets rereleased every year. I can't comment on how the cart port works, as most the games I have are the common stuff that's likely to work anyways. I don't own any of the problem carts.

 

A modern hookup (HDMI orsomething) would be nice, all the ones I got are av only.

 

Just swing by Wal-Mart and dollar stores around Christmas time, unless the game selection is different the market for a new one may not be there.

[Pixelboy]

I don't think the market of plug-and-plays is saturated, not yet anyway. It's more a question of what "areas" of the market haven't been milked much yet. For example, I expect Nintendo will make a killing with the eventual N64 Mini, because the N64 hasn't been done yet in plug-and-play format. Same thing for a Game Boy Original/Color/Advance portable (presumably with built-in games instead of a cartridge slot) because there's a lot of love out there for the old GB/GBC/GBA games, and selling them in multiple casing colors (perhaps even with a couple of exclusive games per color) will increase the collectability of the units.

 

There are areas of the market that are indeed saturated. AtGames has been doing the Atari 2600 and the Sega Genesis for years now, and if Analogue releases an FPGA Genesis console with all the HDMI trimmings at a price point similar to the Super NT, that's pretty much it for that market.

 

If you want my advice, do a GB/GBC/GBA console with a cartridge slot, if you can. Playing these portable games on a regular TV (with a hand controller) is quite better than squinting at the minuscule screen of a hand-cramp-inducing portable unit. A "wow" feature to add would be link-cable support so two distant consoles could be linked together over the internet. Not sure if it's technically doable though. This seems like a more noticeable (and profitable) product than yet another Genesis device. With the jailbroken NT Mini able to play GB and GBC games, I don't think Analogue will ever release a GB/GBC/GBA console with a cartridge slot, so that's a safer bet for you.

[Flojomojo]

Arggghh

Nintendo if you're reading this, pay no attention to pixelboy.

Handheld games are way more portable and fun, and should not be tethered to a television!

[Flojomojo]

[Pixelboy]

Arggghh

Nintendo if you're reading this, pay no attention to pixelboy.

Handheld games are way more portable and fun, and should not be tethered to a television!

Nintendo will never release a TV-based GB/GBC/GBA console, especially not with a cartridge slot, so no worries there.

 

Also, speaking from personal experience, once you play GBA games on the Game Cube (with the Game Boy Player) you never want to go back.

[Osgeld]

I dunno, unless your name begins with N its just another classic game thing that sits on the shelf at every store that doesnt sell ... like Barns and Noble had 6 classic game machines last xmass, and there's at least 2 genesis clones sitting on the back shelf at target right this second

[Flojomojo]

Nintendo will never release a TV-based GB/GBC/GBA console, especially not with a cartridge slot, so no worries there.

 

Also, speaking from personal experience, once you play GBA games on the Game Cube (with the Game Boy Player) you never want to go back.

I appreciate the appeal of being able to take a cartridge and ply it in multiple places, but I spend the vast majority of screen time on small things, not the big screen -- and I like it that way!

 

GB Player + Wavebird is indeed very nice.

[Jess Ragan]

It'd be nice to have a Genesis clone that:

 

1. Wasn't by AtGames

2. Had HDMI built in

3. Ran the games very accurately

4. Looked nice on a shelf

 

Gamerz Tek gets about two of these right with its Minigen HD. It's kind of ugly and while compatibility is robust, it can't handle the Sega CD and it can't do stereo sound.

 

There are Genesis clones out there, with more on the way. If you want to add another one to the pile, you're going to have to offer something different from the rest. A CDX clone would be really ambitious... I'm sure tons of people would love to have a Genesis and Sega CD together in a compact form factor, with an HDMI port built into it. If that's too expensive, at least make the system attractive, because the Minigen HD sure ain't.

[PikoInteractive]

Well my take with the budget version is open the road for us, price point would be a lot more affordable, with HDMI out solution (which is a internal upscaler like all the clone consoles) it would not re invent the wheel, but it would try to fix a lot of problems with the Sega Genesis plug and play by atgames (sound, controllers not being infrared, controller cables long enough, regular size genesis controller, not that mini bullshit, and a new set of titles, not the same 30 from the last 9 years).

 

Eventually I do want to move to emulation because it will allow me to do Master System, Game Gear, and at the very least 32X in the same console. Sega CD would be great and we could add a USB connection for users to bring an external CD reader and read Sega CD games, the problem is the BIOS. Saturn is a possibility now too.

 

Having Sega CD would open the doors, as we could develop a lot of great content and press discs with no problem.

 

Once you go with emulation, the UI can look fantastic (I'm thinking something like what Digital Eclipse does with the retro compilations on modern consoles) and having save states, filters, and full 60fps on HDTVs would be great.

 

I feel like the people that have done emulation+dumper have missed hitting a good spot on the console mainly because they are not really gamers.

 

When I worked on the Generations, my first review was very cut throat, basically I said it was a piece of garbage and sent a very large list of things that needed to be fixed or improved. The only one that I think they did, was very long controller cables. The rest was ignored, and look at how that turned out.

 

We already have a solid list of commercial games, and have 3 additional lists, one to buy out the game IP completely, other one to buy an exclusive flat fee license, and another one which would be a "secret weapon" that will only be triggered if needed as it would be much more expensive and would need royalties.

 

The more support we get from costumers, the more money we can blow on buying games. As I mentioned, I think I'm addicted now to buying and controlling games.

[Keatah]

Emulation + Dumpers is like a truck with square tires. A bad experience all around except for 1 specific and narrow point or speed where everything resonates just right and ride is bearable.

 

FPGA requires too many brains to be supported by this market segment.

 

Emulation alone by itself means ROMz. And that baaaaadd, too!

[+Gemintronic]

Not so sure how well the Genesis scene would take another option.

 

There are open / free options for x86 + FreeDOS and MSX + C-BIOs. Also, readily available FPGA cores exist for MSX and x86. MSX still has a nice scene with many classic games. An MS-DOS machine with PikoCARTs would leverage some of your existing DOS based library.

[+GoldenWheels]

Yup, I'd say there's plenty room for more plug and plays, but personally I have absolutely 0 interest in yet another Genesis.

[PikoInteractive]

Not so sure how well the Genesis scene would take another option.

 

There are open / free options for x86 + FreeDOS and MSX + C-BIOs. Also, readily available FPGA cores exist for MSX and x86. MSX still has a nice scene with many classic games. An MS-DOS machine with PikoCARTs would leverage some of your existing DOS based library.

 

Im working (slowly) on a DOS machine for DOS games.. Keyboard, mouse and controller, and USB for external floppy or CD readers, and SD card slot.

 

Loaded with 100+ DOS games (not sharware).

 

I can also do SNES and NES, but I don't know why I want to start with Genesis first.

 

I think because we found the perfect name for it lol. We have enough SNES games, but not enough NES games though to make it worth it.

[+Gemintronic]

You need a Video Game Collector themed "Spiritual Warfare" type game for the Genesis I'm your man! ~_^

[Tanooki]

I think the TV games on their own standard 15 year run now with the RCA cable + batteries are kind of played out. If you had something more suitable, a hybird of that and the atgames style mini console you'd be safe, like but not like the game-key thing Jakks did for their tv games for a time.

 

You'd be better off being original though I think, semi-original at least. See if you can source out a decent but ridiculously cheap set of parts and make handheld devices with a TV out on it. Throw your set of games on there, and allow for more with SD card, or need be, kind of Switch/NGX like do that but with a dock and that dock allows a real game cart to work as a choice.

[atarilovesyou]

I find it very hard to believe that a properly executed pnp Genesis would not be popular. We are talking about the #2 system (and even #1 for a point) during the biggest time during the North American console wars. The reason you see the many versions shelfwarming is one thing: QUALITY.

 

Ok...and exclusivity. Nintendo showed everybody how to make an excellent pnp in their first two attempts...other than distribution, of course. But these hings were priced right and played right and felt right...while the Genesis pnps, well...didn't.

 

I equate the Genesis stuff with the Jakks pnp stuff from over a decade ago...funish, but throwing your money down the toilet due to quality issues.

 

The Nintendo stuff is on par witb the Legacy Atari Flashback 2. That first FB really was it, only surpassed by Nintendo's recent offerings. And it beat Nintendo with certain features, like encouraged user mods and retro controller capability.

 

The ship has sailed for a quality Genesis pnp, but if a proper effort was made? I'd be in.

[+wongojack]

Also, speaking from personal experience, once you play GBA games on the Game Cube (with the Game Boy Player) you never want to go back.

 

I'm with you. I tend to own handheld games and systems, but I almost never want to sit on my living room couch and play them on a tiny screen. Wouldn't it be cool to just have them re-release the Gameboy player as a stand alone! You have your GameBoy mini (er . . . mega) right there. Just throw a few pack-in games on it, leave the cart slot, add HDMI and done. Surely it is possible.

 

I also can't believe we've never seen a way to play Nintendo DS games on your TV. Nintendo has released 2 consoles with 2nd screen capability but has yet to bring DS games to the living room screen. I think the original DS is still the single best selling game console of any kind, but they still won't bridge the libraries together. WHY? There's your market opening right there.

[Tanooki]

Come on the latest Sega Genesis HD console you all are acting like it's anything near as awful as the firecore atrocity of the last decade from atgames. It's a competent device even if the menu navigation was wonky and it handles carts too. I guess it's not quite as perfect as Nintendo did, but there is a revised one coming which supposedly I thought should make things right (more right?) in the end.

 

It just seems like a waste of time trying to copycat atgames, and would even even let that fly considering they have a multi-year deal with those dudes. They used to deal with Radica for some Genesis controller looking TV games before Jakks got exclusive and that dried up and they unlike Jakks had some really solid titles on theirs in that period.

 

 

wongo: Problem is they'd be eating into selling 3DS hardware since they all do DS games, that's really it on the WHY. Now if the 3DS moved into the grave and DS support were killed with that (and it likely would) then it would serve a purpose. I think a few DS games were made for the WiiU VC weren't they? The games could be paneled out side by side or rotate the controller tablet thing sideways to do it on one. There's no reason to think they couldn't do another TV setup, but going to a TV that is widescreen by design wouldn't compliment it well.

[Flojomojo]

I also can't believe we've never seen a way to play Nintendo DS games on your TV. Nintendo has released 2 consoles with 2nd screen capability but has yet to bring DS games to the living room screen. I think the original DS is still the single best selling game console of any kind, but they still won't bridge the libraries together. WHY? There's your market opening right there.

Maybe you mean cartridges, but a bunch of DS games were sold in the Wii U Virtual Console store.

 

I agree support for DS cartridges would be nicer so you could move your progress around. I'm glad cloud saves are catching on everywhere. It's getting so I won't buy a game without them.

[PikoInteractive]

Maybe you mean cartridges, but a bunch of DS games were sold in the Wii U Virtual Console store.

 

I agree support for DS cartridges would be nicer so you could move your progress around. I'm glad cloud saves are catching on everywhere. It's getting so I won't buy a game without them.

 

DS should be possible, doesn't higan supports DS emulation?

 

 

 

edit: never mind I thought it did, but it doesn't.

Edited August 27, 2018 by PikoInteractive