Streets of Rage 4

[Hydro Thunder]

On 5/3/2020 at 12:03 PM, Zoyous said:

 

Thanks for the links! I remember how popular Enigma was for a while back then. Always using the same flute sample in all their hits!

 

Well, I love to geek out on music, so I analyzed both tracks and they are actually pretty different. They do have a similar vibe in a way, and they have a similar swing to the drum patterns, but other than that they are quite different. You can easily hear that they clash if you beatmatch them ("Principles of Lust" is around 95 bpm and the Streets intro is about 100 bpm) and play them simultaneously.

 

Here are the chord progressions:

"Principles of Lust" alternates between G minor and Bb Major chords.

The Streets 2 intro alternates between F Harmonic Major and D Major.

 

Here's the Enigma bassline:

 

and the Yuzo Koshiro bassline:

 

And lastly, although the drum patterns have a similar swing, you can see that the patterns are quite different as well:

 

Here's the Enigma drum pattern. Most of the action that might typically be played on a high hat is actually a brush on the snare, but to compare to Yuzo's composition I transposed that to the high hat (C#2 here):

 

and Yuzo Koshiro's drum pattern:

 

So in summation, I would say, sure they have a similar vibe and could even be worked into a DJ mix together because of it... however, you would have to break the crossfade down to just the drums to do it because the chord progressions clash. An inspiration? Certainly. However, the word "plagiarize" has only one specific meaning with legal ramifications, and if misused could be considered slander. It's a serious word to use when referring to an artist's work, so that's why I raised an eyebrow. And people on the internet can really take misinformation and run with it. But please consider my post an exploration for fun and appreciation of the music. Both of the artists are classic and it's fun to speculate on their inspirations.

While I respect your effort and don't doubt the technicality of this, we are not talking about Huey Lewis & the News vs Ray Parker Jr. here

I agree about the phrase Plagiarize, but I don't think the original poster who said that perhaps meant it in the specific legal way.  Or maybe he did.

My example wasn't intended to be that serious, other than to say "listen to these, they're the same".  When my friends and I first booted up SoR2 back in the day, the comment was "Hey that's Enigma!". 

 

On a lighter and only slightly related note, I drop this, a video I have watched a million times with great enjoyment:

 

 

[roots.genoa]

1 hour ago, Curious Sofa said:

I agree about the phrase Plagiarize, but I don't think the original poster who said that perhaps meant it in the specific legal way.  Or maybe he did.

No I didn't, that's why I added "in a good way" and clarified after that I think it's an awesome achievement anyway. My favorite band is mostly known for a huge hit from the 80s which is strongly inspired by a Donna Summer song. They basically tried to program it on a soundtracker.
And by the way, comparing SoR2's introduction to "Principles of Lust" is not that relevant, since SoR1's introduction was already inspired by this song, and SoR2's one is derived from it.

If you want compelling examples without watching the 50' video I shared, here are the two most famous:

 

 

[digdugnate]

5 hours ago, Curious Sofa said:

While I respect your effort and don't doubt the technicality of this, we are not talking about Huey Lewis & the News vs Ray Parker Jr. here

I agree about the phrase Plagiarize, but I don't think the original poster who said that perhaps meant it in the specific legal way.  Or maybe he did.

My example wasn't intended to be that serious, other than to say "listen to these, they're the same".  When my friends and I first booted up SoR2 back in the day, the comment was "Hey that's Enigma!". 

 

On a lighter and only slightly related note, I drop this, a video I have watched a million times with great enjoyment:

 

 

I own all of Smooth McGroove's albums- just simply fantastic work.

[Hydro Thunder]

And just to throw this out there, though it doesn't differ from my initial impression and no one will be surprised to hear it...

I just LOVE the game.  I have already put more time into it than any other Switch game (save a couple of tower defense games as I'm a sucker for those and they take a long time to play through).  I am savoring it and taking it slow, so I've not opened up everything yet.  

Love the nostalgic throwback touches, the secrets, the tricks, and a lot of the funny background stuff too.

It just feels like a project of much effort and time, and care, and passion, and it's exactly what I hoped it would be.

 

I toughed it out and beat it on Normal with Axel first, and that took a lot of patience and helped me in my learning curve.  Axel is somewhat known to be a weaker character though for my style he fits it well.  Did a 2nd playthrough on Hard with mostly Floyd, he is an animal in groups (just keep picking up pairs of enemies and smashing them together, heh!).

Haven't had much success with Cherry; she has a dash but I just don't have her range figured out.  Never was very good with Skate either, so it tracks.

 

Spoilers for one thing I didn't love, and a brief mention of something else weird and funny

 

Spoiler

The "ending".  Given how polished this game is, so surprised there's no story ending.  Seems like they had to cut it or something?  Hoping that will be included in an update, maybe?  And possibly...character specific endings?  IDK, just seemed like the one "stone left unturned".  they had such a cool comic book art style too with the prior (if simple) story.

 

Also...lol at the giant purple uh...you know, "To: Paris" at the end of the art gallery.  Next to the big purple teddy bear.  I keep chuckling about it.

https://time.com/3525271/parisian-sex-toy-christmas-tree-butt-plug/

 

 

[Tanooki]

Maybe I'm out of bounds on this, but I finally tried the game out here a couple hours ago, got blocked on normal going deeper than Stage 6 and I feel it was a little lucky I got that far.  I don't know if I'm missing something, but the game is just hard, harder than the period stuff.  I don't think I'd mind it so, but what's up with that shit with lockout on all the other modes in the game including arcade mode unless you suffer somehow through beating the story?  I've got a hell of a time making any sense of some of the units such as that douche of a commissioner with what seems to be some unavoidable hits.  And then when you get playing alone and mobbed by like 4-6 at once, you can't keep up as the AI isn't period dumb so you can't just rope them into a corner or wall.  I feel like I'm missing something but reading it seems to be a common complaint.

 

Can you unlock the other modes tolerating the game using online mode through story?

[+Cafeman]

@Tanooki you weren't playing as Axel, were you?   He isnt too fast and is a bit nerfed, not easy to finish the game with him until you learn some patterns. If so , try again with Blaze.  Or check out some strategy vids on YT.   The commissioner isn't as hard when you figure out how to avoid getting charged and thrown by him. 

 

Anyway, SOR4 is pretty hard, but at least you can continue next time from the stage you left off. 

[roots.genoa]

5 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Maybe I'm out of bounds on this, but I finally tried the game out here a couple hours ago, got blocked on normal going deeper than Stage 6 and I feel it was a little lucky I got that far.  I don't know if I'm missing something, but the game is just hard, harder than the period stuff.  I don't think I'd mind it so, but what's up with that shit with lockout on all the other modes in the game including arcade mode unless you suffer somehow through beating the story?  I've got a hell of a time making any sense of some of the units such as that douche of a commissioner with what seems to be some unavoidable hits.  And then when you get playing alone and mobbed by like 4-6 at once, you can't keep up as the AI isn't period dumb so you can't just rope them into a corner or wall.  I feel like I'm missing something but reading it seems to be a common complaint.

 

Can you unlock the other modes tolerating the game using online mode through story?

Yep, the game is harder than the original ones. I suggest to play on easy first, and after you beat the game, "normal" will seem easier. I even went quite far on "hard" but had to get the help of another player online to beat the game in that mode. Also, like Cafeman said, I played Axel initially and it seemed even harder.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Yep, the game is harder than the original ones. I suggest to play on easy first, and after you beat the game, "normal" will seem easier. I even went quite far on "hard" but had to get the help of another player online to beat the game in that mode. Also, like Cafeman said, I played Axel initially and it seemed even harder.

I still haven't received my copy of the game from LRG yet (Although I did get shipping notification the other day). But I have always played the original games using just Blaze so it seems that if I were to do the same on this new sequel that I would find a similar experience there as well. The only time Blaze was a problem for me was against the two boss lady Blaze clones as that is where I would usually end up loosing most of my lives in the game at that point LOL!

 

[roots.genoa]

3 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I still haven't received my copy of the game from LRG yet (Although I did get shipping notification the other day). But I have always played the original games using just Blaze so it seems that if I were to do the same on this new sequel that I would find a similar experience there as well. The only time Blaze was a problem for me was against the two boss lady Blaze clones as that is where I would usually end up loosing most of my lives in the game at that point LOL!

 

Really? Blaze was the only one fast enough for me to beat these two! That's with Adam that I would lose all my lives... ?
To be clear, SoR4 might be easier than the original games in terms of AI; it's the fact that there are no credits that makes it more difficult to beat.

[Tanooki]

I've been using Blaze, only character I ever really got into using with the series.  That's why I was at a loss, and maybe thinking it was some dumb mechanic they decided to modernize perhaps forcing using a specific set of button mashes not to die instead of just classic evasion.  There just were far too many cheap deaths and hits dialed largely into someone smacking me one when I was in a locked in chain of strikes, or some infuriating cheap set of motions from a sub-boss/boss would do like the commissioner which just made no sense why strikes would fail.  That's why I asked, and also asked if using online mode would cheese my way around the bullshit so I could have the full game unlocked as stuff like that really pisses me off when I pay in full and a lot of the game is sealed from the menu itself behind lame hurdles.  It's an enjoyable game, to a point, but that really is largely fun sucking and demoralizing when it behaves as it does even on normal difficulty as it's nastier than the old trio of games even on the higher levels.

[+Cafeman]

The bigger enemies have “invincible” frames of animation.  If you start a combo during these, you will get clobbered. Lots of tips are out there online to help a new player recognize some patterns.  Personally I really enjoy SOR4. 

[digdugnate]

i prefer the unlockable characters (I won't say if you don't want to be spoiled), even though they don't 'count' for the scores.

 

When I picked up my game I noticed there was a patch, but not sure on what it did.    I did notice a video option I didn't pay attention to before with filtering that makes it look 'retro'.

 

Still an absolute blast to play.

[Hydro Thunder]

The game is very tough, especially since it uses new mechanics to the age old beat-em-up formula.  It takes learning a new and unfamiliar system.

Specifically, you have to be ready willing and able to use the standing "defensive" special whenever you get mobbed.  And it's hard to get used to this.

But I have watched tons of videos of the best players beating the game on one credit in Mania mode, and they throw out that special All The Time.  With the confidence that they will get in a couple of combos to refill their life bar.

 

Other thing to keep in mind is that if you just want to beat the game, don't hesitate to 1) use Easy mode, and 2) to take advantage of the option to add Stars and Extra lives when you die.  They're there because they know the game is hard at first.  And man is it ever.

 

But yeah, I still love it, and can't wait for my LRG edition to come in.  LRG did send out a free Steam code for the game to those who pre-ordered the special edition, so I have it both on Switch and on PC.  

[digdugnate]

8 hours ago, Curious Sofa said:

The game is very tough, especially since it uses new mechanics to the age old beat-em-up formula.  It takes learning a new and unfamiliar system.

Specifically, you have to be ready willing and able to use the standing "defensive" special whenever you get mobbed.  And it's hard to get used to this.

But I have watched tons of videos of the best players beating the game on one credit in Mania mode, and they throw out that special All The Time.  With the confidence that they will get in a couple of combos to refill their life bar.

 

Other thing to keep in mind is that if you just want to beat the game, don't hesitate to 1) use Easy mode, and 2) to take advantage of the option to add Stars and Extra lives when you die.  They're there because they know the game is hard at first.  And man is it ever.

 

But yeah, I still love it, and can't wait for my LRG edition to come in.  LRG did send out a free Steam code for the game to those who pre-ordered the special edition, so I have it both on Switch and on PC.  

this sums it up pretty good!  i used an Assist on my Normal playthrough since I'm not quite there on that stupid train level with the boss.  otherwise, i still really enjoy the game even though the higher difficulty levels are brutal for me.

[Tanooki]

I recall something about the standing special defense, just don't recall exactly how it worked or what it did when I was using Blaze to be fair.  I remember going in with the special offensive hit of hers which was like a charged fist.  It didn't do crap for back attacks, nothing seemed to outside of using the actual back attack which was like a ground rear sweep kick.  My trouble really didn't kick in until like stage 5 on normal mode, then it started to just get too nasty and too much taking a beating in a 6 on 1 situation.  That's why i was hoping maybe you could finish story mode playing with the online mode.

[Hydro Thunder]

There are basically only two things that make you briefly invincible, and one is the Standing Defensive Special (which should hit everything in a little bubble around you), and the other is while in the act of throwing an opponent.  So use throws a lot too.

 

I have a LOT of trouble with Stage 6, Chinatown, every time.  The end boss isn't actually too bad, it's getting to him with more than like 1/2 of one life left that's the trick.  Best thing I learned about this level (and really any where there are lots of enemies) was to almost never do long combos.  Like even more than two punches at a time puts you at risk of back attack.  So a couple of jabs, and move, move in for a throw maybe, rinse and repeat until the number of enemies gets down to reasonable.  Oh, and make sure to use jump kicks on the guys with weapons, get those weapons outta their hands.

[Tanooki]

If 6 is the one where the commish and his blonde grunt comes back in a 2 on 1, that's where I got all 3 lives stomped out of me that which made me flip it off and not play it again since.  I guess the instructions suck, I don't get the standing special, because I think it said use X or something, and X does the forward attacking super that chips some life off you can regain through strikes.

 

[roots.genoa]

4 hours ago, Tanooki said:

If 6 is the one where the commish and his blonde grunt comes back in a 2 on 1, that's where I got all 3 lives stomped out of me that which made me flip it off and not play it again since.  I guess the instructions suck, I don't get the standing special, because I think it said use X or something, and X does the forward attacking super that chips some life off you can regain through strikes.

 

No, 6 is Chinatown, with Shiva at the end. You're talking of the metro level, the 7th. This one can be quite difficult because of the lack of food, and if you keep missing the timing to avoid obstacles...

[+Cafeman]

I've been stuck on level 6 Hard difficulty,  trying to finish it with Axel. It starts off pretty easy with useful weapons like the boomerang , then the meat cleaver.  But then several mobs start to take my health and lives away. When it starts to go bad, it can be very bad. 

 

I checked, on PS4 the latest update for me is still 1.2.  When are the 1.3 adjustments getting pushed out?  Those weapon carrying walking guys are near impossible to escape!

[Agamon]

SoR4 is considered hard? And here I thought I sucked at beat'em ups....

[Tanooki]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:36 AM, roots.genoa said:

No, 6 is Chinatown, with Shiva at the end. You're talking of the metro level, the 7th. This one can be quite difficult because of the lack of food, and if you keep missing the timing to avoid obstacles...

Ahh ok better than I thought.  I recall when I tried it last it forced me back into 7, wouldn't let me stage select back or anything so I guess I have to over-write the game and start from stage1 or push into that mess again.  I found the stage not that hard, I got cleaned out entirely by the 2 cop mid-bosses entirely.

[+chicgamer]

On 7/6/2020 at 4:19 PM, Curious Sofa said:

I have a LOT of trouble with Stage 6, Chinatown, every time.  The end boss isn't actually too bad, it's getting to him with more than like 1/2 of one life left that's the trick.  Best thing I learned about this level (and really any where there are lots of enemies) was to almost never do long combos.  Like even more than two punches at a time puts you at risk of back attack.  So a couple of jabs, and move, move in for a throw maybe, rinse and repeat until the number of enemies gets down to reasonable.  Oh, and make sure to use jump kicks on the guys with weapons, get those weapons outta their hands.

Yeah, this part of the Chinatown level is what's currently tripping me up. I got my copy of SoR4 on Wednesday and have played it a bit this weekend. The Galsia room eats through my lives. it's hard to keep the weapons out of their hands, as there end up being so many on the floor, and the enemies just end up swarming you.

 

Right now, Cherry is my go-to character, and I'm digging her a lot. One thing I don't like about her, though, is that she's susceptible to attack when doing her head punch move. I guess I need to be more careful about when I use it.

[Austin]

Blaze has been my preferred character, but Cherry seems best for keeping your combos going.

[+Cafeman]

I've been stubbornly sticking with Axel, playing on Hard. I play 1 or 2 rounds every evening. I need extra stars and lives to finish each stage at this point, so I'm not getting full points rewards.  But its still fun. 

[digdugnate]

i really dig SoR1 Blaze but when i'm playing the SoR4 characters my fave is Adam.