Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Nah; it just means we have a whole year to debate the best way to do the 2019 awards now. So true. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I think the categories are relatively fine as they are...because at the end of the day, shouldn't the focus be on the games themselves? Not the technology behind the games? I ask, more or less, because I think ChaoticGrill would be an odd man out... uses DPC+ driver, but no ARM code (game logic is all in 6502 assembly). Would it be fair to stick it in with the other games that use ARM-based game logic? It would almost fit best with the Bb-based DPC+ games. Along those lines, shouldn't Bb games themselves be separated into DPC+ vs non-DPC+? And it goes on and on and on.... You have to draw the line somewhere so that you don't draw too many lines All excellent points - when I competed in Atari's 2012 Pong Challenge headed by Nolan Bushnell (he was back at Atari for 2012) these lines were blurred and I had the only classic entry in the contest - all of the other entries were written for modern processors using fancy tools like Sapphire and other modern development kits. But all were Atari games in spirit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DeURx3mYck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackAttack Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I'd actually argue the other direction for categories. Instead of adding one for 4k/assembly the bB category should be removed. Either it's a fun game to play or it's not. Who cares how it was built. A better category would be for ports/demakes since the game design effort is mostly provided by the original IP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 A better category would be for ports/demakes since the game design effort is mostly provided by the original IP. I don't agree with this, as a large chunk of Atari's original 2600 library consists of arcade game ports. Even though the "game design effort is mostly provided", a case can be made that doing a port is even a larger challenge versus writing an original game as you are trying to replicate the graphics/audio/gameplay from an existing game. Which can be very difficult to do on the 2600 platform. With an original game, you can more easily work within the confines of the system to use it's strengths. But with a port, people expect the game to look/feel as close to the original arcade game as possible. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackAttack Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I don't agree with this, as a large chunk of Atari's original 2600 library consists of arcade game ports. Even though the "game design effort is mostly provided", a case can be made that doing a port is even a larger challenge versus writing an original game as you are trying to replicate the graphics/audio/gameplay from an existing game. Which can be very difficult to do on the 2600 platform. With an original game, you can more easily work within the confines of the system to use it's strengths. But with a port, people expect the game to look/feel as close to the original arcade game as possible. ..Al Exactly. What's involved in making a faithful port is fundamentally different than making an original game. This is why I think ports deserve their own category. Separating them does not imply that either approach is better or easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 What's involved in making a faithful port is fundamentally different than making an original game. Exactly. Both require pretty different talents. E.g. I am much better in making attention to detail faithful ports than designing fun original games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I don't agree with this, as a large chunk of Atari's original 2600 library consists of arcade game ports. Even though the "game design effort is mostly provided", a case can be made that doing a port is even a larger challenge versus writing an original game as you are trying to replicate the graphics/audio/gameplay from an existing game. Which can be very difficult to do on the 2600 platform. With an original game, you can more easily work within the confines of the system to use it's strengths. But with a port, people expect the game to look/feel as close to the original arcade game as possible. ..Al Design is a game that is easy to play but difficult to master which is why there are so many ports. To me what makes ports interesting are the differences - I like when the game looks and feels differently than the original. Particularly when it retains interesting aspects of gameplay and tunes aspects that need tuning to sometimes improve the original or just make it interesting in a different way (variation). Sometimes the variation can just amount to abstraction on the 2600, but abstraction can also be good or bad game design. Look at all of the awesome Pacman ports and Breakout ports as an example of this - if they were all carbon copies would we need to play more than one? Exactly. What's involved in making a faithful port is fundamentally different than making an original game. This is why I think ports deserve their own category. Separating them does not imply that either approach is better or easier. What's involved in making a faithful port is fundamentally closer to making the original game because you're building the same thing instead of something different. What's involved in making an unfaithful port is fundamentally different because you are changing the spec to create your own design variation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Design is a game that is easy to play but difficult to master which is why there are so many ports. I agree that from a design perspective, it's not trivial to create a new game from scratch that is fun to play. However, I disagree that is why there "are so many ports." There are so many ports because people like the challenge of bringing a game to another system, especially if it's a game they personally enjoy. Most of us have games we loved in arcades or on other systems, and it's fun to recreate that game on another platform. And the 2600 in particular is a rather challenging platform to develop for, and more so when you are trying to replicate a game that used more advanced hardware in its original incarnation. ..Al 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I agree that from a design perspective, it's not trivial to create a new game from scratch that is fun to play. However, I disagree that is why there "are so many ports." There are so many ports because people like the challenge of bringing a game to another system, especially if it's a game they personally enjoy. Most of us have games we loved in arcades or on other systems, and it's fun to recreate that game on another platform. And the 2600 in particular is a rather challenging platform to develop for, and more so when you are trying to replicate a game that used more advanced hardware in its original incarnation. ..Al Those are all good points and I agree they are all valid reasons we bring games to other systems and indeed the reasons I brought games to other systems bitd and now. But it doesn't invalidate TJ's observation that these are two different skillsets and design is by far harder; advanced programmers are adepts but design is art. You see us working with talented musicians and pixel artists, but the game design is the highest art; I work with talented pixel artists and musicians but also design pixel art and soundscapes. Game design is much harder and although I have original elements, nearly all of my game designs are borrowed from the masters: Pacman, Breakout, Qbert and Donkey Kong concept designs have effectively been written by Mozart, Beethhoven, Brahms and Charles Ives. Another design master, Ed Averett took Pacman to the next level with KC. Novalogic did the same thing with Breakout extending the original design innovation. Innovation is hard, a lot of times innovation comes about accidentally working on something completely different that is also new because the scientist must be open minded to enter the realm of art or they miss it entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 For future awards instead of a separate category for bB games, I'd rather see a separate category for 4K and under games. Not only are we well past the point where using bB is no longer a hindrance to creating a quality game, but support for 32K games and DPC+ creates the same sort of (for lack of a better term) gap between "high-end" and "low-end" games within bB that ARM/non-ARM creates with assembly-made games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Sorry if it's been posted somewhere else and I missed it, but when is it planned to do the voting and the list of candidates? Never Mind, just saw the updated first post! Edited January 12, 2019 by Muddyfunster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I haven't seen anyone suggest nominees for the categories yet, so maybe I'll throw out a few to get the ball rolling: Best Homebrew: Mappy (an amazing port, and a lot of fun!), Dungeon II: Solstice (hard to believe it's only 4K!) Best bB Release: Sword of Surtr (this was a long time coming, and it evolved greatly in the process), Tyre Trax (beautiful and fun with an Activision-y feel) Best WIP: Aardvark (this is already amazing in its current form!), Wizard of Wor Arcade, Castle of Doom (a simple game, but a great time-waster with a lot of challenging levels) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I haven't seen anyone suggest nominees for the categories yet, so maybe I'll throw out a few to get the ball rolling: Best Homebrew: Mappy (an amazing port, and a lot of fun!), Dungeon II: Solstice (hard to believe it's only 4K!) Best bB Release: Sword of Surtr (this was a long time coming, and it evolved greatly in the process), Tyre Trax (beautiful and fun with an Activision-y feel) Best WIP: Aardvark (this is already amazing in its current form!), Wizard of Wor Arcade, Castle of Doom (a simple game, but a great time-waster with a lot of challenging levels) The nomination panel is currently processing (and playing) thru all of the eligible game titles and cutting the list down to a manageable size for the public vote. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 It's not a terrible idea to start evaluating eligible games and working on your own internal list of favourites BUT the voting begins on January 23rd! Keep watching this thread for further instructions when we start getting close. :-) I haven't seen anyone suggest nominees for the categories yet, so maybe I'll throw out a few to get the ball rolling: Best Homebrew: Mappy (an amazing port, and a lot of fun!), Dungeon II: Solstice (hard to believe it's only 4K!) Best bB Release: Sword of Surtr (this was a long time coming, and it evolved greatly in the process), Tyre Trax (beautiful and fun with an Activision-y feel) Best WIP: Aardvark (this is already amazing in its current form!), Wizard of Wor Arcade, Castle of Doom (a simple game, but a great time-waster with a lot of challenging levels) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 2018 ATARI AWARD NOMINEE ANNOUNCEMENTS! LIVE WEDNESDAY JANUARY 23, 2019 on ZEROPAGE HOMEBREW! The nominees announcements of all ten categories for the 2018 edition of the Atari Awards will take place LIVE on the ZeroPage Homebrew's Twitch channel on January 23rd, 2019 at 11PM PT | 2PM ET | 7PM GMT! We will also be giving out the voting information so you will be able to vote your favourite games of last year into the top spot! After the full announcements we will be playing through the nominated games on the show so stick around afterwards for some homebrew gaming from the best of 2018! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy2600 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 THE 2018 ATARI AWARDS! LIVE ON FEBRUARY 23, 2019 presented by ZeroPage Homebrew, The Atari 2600 Homebrew Companion and AtariAge The 2018 edition of the Atari Awards, celebrating the best in Atari 2600 Homebrew, will take place LIVE on the ZeroPage Homebrew's Twitch channel on February 23rd, 2019 at 12PM PT | 3PM ET | 8PM GMT! YOU GET TO VOTE starting January 23, 2019 for your favorite homebrews, hacks and demos when we reveal the final nominees in each of the categories below. After the voting closes on February 18, 2019 and your votes are tallied, the 2018 Atari Awards will be broadcast LIVE on February 23, 2019 to announce the winners and give out the awards! Award Categories: Best Homebrew Best bB Homebrew Best WIP Homebrew Best Game Hack Best Demo Best Programming Best Graphics Best Music & Sound Best Packaging Technical Achievement Award Please feel free to suggest and discuss below all your favorite homebrew games that you think should be nominated for an award for 2018! (Qualifying games must be released during the period of January 1, 2018 through to December 31, 2018) Current list of 2018 Games/WIP/Hacks and Demos: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TYGgJaphZRQ31LvNfCHovEWYB-c_g3Ba/view?usp=sharing (note: List is a living document and may not be 100% accurate, please let us know if you spot any issues) Atari Awards 2018-Logo 4-Medium.png Wait do I need to have twitter account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 No twitter account required, you'll be voting through the AA Forums! :-) More details will be announced on the ZeroPage Homebrew livestream tomorrow and then posted here afterwards. Wait do I need to have twitter account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2018 ATARI AWARD NOMINEE ANNOUNCEMENTS! LIVE WEDNESDAY JANUARY 23, 2019 on ZEROPAGE HOMEBREW! The nominees announcements of all ten categories for the 2018 edition of the Atari Awards will take place LIVE on the ZeroPage Homebrew's Twitch channel on January 23rd, 2019 at 11PM PT | 2PM ET | 7PM GMT! We will also be giving out the voting information so you will be able to vote your favourite games of last year into the top spot! After the full announcements we will be playing through the nominated games on the show so stick around afterwards for some homebrew gaming from the best of 2018! Atari Awards 2018-Logo 6.jpg I'm pretty sure you meant 11 *AM* PT. Just want to make sure that no one misses it because they tuned in too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 I did mean 11AM PT, thanks Karl G! I did notice the mistake later but it was already too late to edit the post so I hoped people inferred it from the other times posted. :-) I'm pretty sure you meant 11 *AM* PT. Just want to make sure that no one misses it because they tuned in too late. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Wait do I need to have twitter account? You need to have a Twitch account to watch the announcements live. But it's free to sign up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 You need to have a Twitch account to watch the announcements live. But it's free to sign up. Is that account even required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Is that account even required? I think only if you want to comment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I think only if you want to comment. Isn't that kind of the point of the whole "live" thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Isn't that kind of the point of the whole "live" thing? You can still watch it live without commenting. ..AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 You can still watch it live without commenting. Maybe you can. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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