derFunkenstein Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 How much more would it have cost Sony to manufacture actual small Playstations rather than using crappy emulation? Probably quite a bit. You'd have to make the shell bigger, add the optical drive, etc. etc. The idea of booting CDs like Tanooki suggests is a fun one, though. The onboard storage is only 16GB so with 20+ disc images my guess is that it's pretty close to full. That probably also explains why there's only one save state per game. Apparently not ALL keyboards will get you to the menu, based on what I'm seeing on Twitter. My guess is there is some USB device filtering going on, so that's going to have to be bypassed before anything else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) How much more would it have cost Sony to manufacture actual small Playstations rather than using crappy emulation? The PSTV was $99, $150 with a Dual Shock controller and 8GB memory card during its brief run as I recall. Wasn't that perfectly capable of running PS1 games from their online service. https://www.geek.com/games/ps-vita-tv-unboxing-and-teardown-reveals-a-well-designed-microconsole-1577558/ They were ultimately selling for $20 to rid the stock before shooting up again in the used market for some reason. I'm not sure what the true wholesale cost of licensing games would come to, but it always seemed to me that using some version of the PSTV guts was the way to go. I'm interested in the tech specs from the new cash grab board. Has anyone seen that yet? Edited December 4, 2018 by JBerel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Probably quite a bit. You'd have to make the shell bigger, add the optical drive, etc. etc. The idea of booting CDs like Tanooki suggests is a fun one, though. The onboard storage is only 16GB so with 20+ disc images my guess is that it's pretty close to full. That probably also explains why there's only one save state per game. Apparently not ALL keyboards will get you to the menu, based on what I'm seeing on Twitter. My guess is there is some USB device filtering going on, so that's going to have to be bypassed before anything else. I was thinking mini playstations without the optical drive and just reading the games from a built in hard drive or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slab0meat Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Got mine the other day, as well... but haven't had any time to try it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Picked mine up. The packaging is absurd. It's a box inside of a box inside of a box. Dual Shock 3/4 NOT compatible, boo! In game seems fine. In terms of future hacking, if you get a USB keyboard to work, you can hit escape and play with emu settings. The device, when hooked to my PC, doesn't register. Not sure if there's not enough juice in the USB port or what, but that may well kill future hacking on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 i've been trying the USB keyboard trick this morning, got as far as it registering a quit game command, early days but yeah the ESC trick opens up the emulator so we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Just curious, why would the device register when connected to a PC via USB? If it's a Pi type device, you'd need to connect external memory to it to boot off of wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Great post that I found on Reddit: " Man, this thing is an unmitigated disaster. I saw someone buying one in EB Games yesterday and had to bite my tongue. I was this close to telling him he might want to check some online reviews before purchasing - but then I'm not the kind of guy who makes a scene in EB Games. People are clearly not doing their research and just buying it blind, expecting it to be the same as the Nintendo units. There's going to be a lot of people wondering if PS1 games were always this slow and shitty looking this Christmas. As Digital Foundry pointed out, it's unfortunate because it actually taints people's memories of what the games were like. They're going to fire them up on the Classic and think that the games actually performed this badly back in the day, when in fact it's the Classic that is making them look and perform this way." It actually kind of makes me angry when I think about it this way. Eff you, Sony. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Yeah I'm not happy about it. I legitimately was interested in the thing and still have a free HDMI port on my TV switchbox collection. I just don't preorder, but after the pre-grumbles came out I was thinking forget it, and then when actual people who used it analyzed it and came back with this mess I'm linking, you almost want to find a Sony rep and give them both barrels of the verbal abuse shotgun of fury. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU0dn9pRKuw&t\= DF is way too hardcore. Most of those complaints no one would notice. Thats par for the course with them though. I still like to watch their videos but it can get annoying at times with their "it dropped to 59fps!!!!!!" mentality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I'm used to bad framerate from many older games so I too don't think I'll notice it on this box. I guess I'll see once I really get into them. Also I'm from a PAL region, I played the original Tomb Raider (and loved it) on the Sega Saturn on a PAL console and anyone that knows about that release it wasn't the be all and end all but it was damn fun. I also lived through the period where a lot of games had slowdown when things got hectic, we just didn't care and it doesn't take the enjoyment away. On the flipside I own a decent PC with a 1080Ti and love it when I get a nice solid 4K 60 (insert 144Hz master race joke here) but my enjoyment isn't derived from it being great all the time with no droped frames occasionally. It's on is it a good game and is it playable to me. So far first impressions are yes the games are playable. Are they the best way to play? Probably not, do I care - nope. But I reckon I'll have fun. The thing that makes this system ok from my standpoint more than anything is the authentic controller. That makes up for a lot of sins and lets a few things slip by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Does anyone have a sense of the quantities that were produced? Are there zillions of these out there, guaranteeing clearance sales before long? If it's hackable I suspect I'll want one, warts and all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 That's kind of a meaningless metric though. People will buy just about anything at clearance. If I walked in and saw a Playstation Classic for twenty dollars, yeah, even I'd buy it. It's how I wound up with my Genesis Flashback HD... I got it at a steep discount. (Fortunately it got hacked pretty soon after that, making it more useful.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 For $20, I'd buy one just to see if the controllers work on my PC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetick1 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 For $20, I'd buy one just to see if the controllers work on my PC. I'm also on when its $20 or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetick1 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) The PSTV was $99, $150 with a Dual Shock controller and 8GB memory card during its brief run as I recall. Wasn't that perfectly capable of running PS1 games from their online service. https://www.geek.com/games/ps-vita-tv-unboxing-and-teardown-reveals-a-well-designed-microconsole-1577558/ They were ultimately selling for $20 to rid the stock before shooting up again in the used market for some reason. I'm not sure what the true wholesale cost of licensing games would come to, but it always seemed to me that using some version of the PSTV guts was the way to go. I'm interested in the tech specs from the new cash grab board. Has anyone seen that yet? PSTV was Vita based using modern ARM ASICs (high end cell phone technology for 2011 but extremely cheap mass produced cell phone technology for 2019!). The Playstation was MIPS based with SGI owned graphics chips. It would be very expensive to mass produce given MIPS architecture is dead and the SGI graphics technology was sold to RackSystems which never even designed VLSI chips. Given Sony could even get the IP rights a custom ASIC with old significantly modified MIPS R3K designs integrated with 25 year old custom Sony owned graphics chips would then be very expensive and not likely profitable under $200+. A low end FPGA could have been an option but the cost would still not be in the desired retro console price range. I think emulation was Sony's ONLY option. I'm just shocked Sony did not use their in house emulators used for the on-line backward compatibility gaming. I honestly think Sony farmed out the entire design with an extremely strict budget ... and the shitty Playstation Classic Mini is all Sony got. Edited December 5, 2018 by thetick1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 DF is way too hardcore. Most of those complaints no one would notice. Thats par for the course with them though. I still like to watch their videos but it can get annoying at times with their "it dropped to 59fps!!!!!!" mentality. You'll get no argument out of me on that, it's so true. But they didn't even have to go there so much with this one. That video they did went just into the obvious stuff even the blind could see it. Someone did a tear down of the device, it appears one of the chips inside it is already an EOL part, no longer made. Who knows how many Sony bought up, but I don't think they ever intended to likely make more than whatever their plans are, and given the slipshod rotten way things have gone with it, I'm not surprised by this. Hell I'd buy one for $20 too, for the controller. I think if a PC picked it up, or even a Switch or other Sony console it would be pretty amusing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Just found this video detailing the manufacturing of the PlayStation Mini. Apparently a local news channel was doing a consumer protection segment on the GameBand and discovered that FMTwo games was contracted to make the PS Mini using funds collected from GameBand backers. Said Feargal Mac Conulahd, "This is the innovative way you bring a successful product to market." https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfr64zoBTAQ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derFunkenstein Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfr64zoBTAQ Son of a 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) PSTV was Vita based using modern ARM ASICs (high end cell phone technology for 2011 but extremely cheap mass produced cell phone technology for 2019!). The Playstation was MIPS based with SGI owned graphics chips. It would be very expensive to mass produce given MIPS architecture is dead and the SGI graphics technology was sold to RackSystems which never even designed VLSI chips. Given Sony could even get the IP rights a custom ASIC with old significantly modified MIPS R3K designs integrated with 25 year old custom Sony owned graphics chips would then be very expensive and not likely profitable under $200+. A low end FPGA could have been an option but the cost would still not be in the desired retro console price range. I think emulation was Sony's ONLY option. I'm just shocked Sony did not use their in house emulators used for the on-line backward compatibility gaming. I honestly think Sony farmed out the entire design with an extremely strict budget ... and the shitty Playstation Classic Mini is all Sony got. That's interesting about the Playstation using SGI chips. I knew that the N64 used SGI but not the Playstation. Edited December 5, 2018 by mbd30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Ah, so apart from the Merry Season, it's also Open Season on Sony. No surprises there. I don't have a Classic, nor intend to buy one, but I'm 100% sure that it's nowhere near as bad as the predictable, hysterical Internet snowball hate-machine would have it. The crux "argument" here seems to be "but it's not a Nintendo Mini!". That reasoning comes with all the strings attached, such as unability/refusal to acknowledge the problems with licensing or emulating 3D on necessarily-weak hardware. You know, the ones Nintendo did not have to deal with. In this narrative a really solid line-up becomes a Z-list abomination and the fact that millions of people have played PAL games before and lived to tell the tale is quickly forgotten. Then there's that thing where folks will happily give a pass to other truly flawed products, manufacturers of which quite often can not offer any solid excuses like the ones mentioned above - such as AtGames or similar other retro-cash ins. I'm also sure none of the perfectionist naysayers ever a streamed a movie while dropping resolutions or listened to music on some potato rig. But here, hey, it's Sony so let's shout from the rooftops about how they hate retro gaming. It's funny, these days when I see something totally slated on teh intehnets, it makes me wanna go and at least try it, who knows, it may be quite good actually. It totally worked with No Man's Sky. Perhaps I should buy Fallout 76 too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepthaw Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) Ah, so apart from the Merry Season, it's also Open Season on Sony. No surprises there. I don't have a Classic, nor intend to buy one, but I'm 100% sure that it's nowhere near as bad as the predictable, hysterical Internet snowball hate-machine would have it. The crux "argument" here seems to be "but it's not a Nintendo Mini!". That reasoning comes with all the strings attached, such as unability/refusal to acknowledge the problems with licensing or emulating 3D on necessarily-weak hardware. You know, the ones Nintendo did not have to deal with. In this narrative a really solid line-up becomes a Z-list abomination and the fact that millions of people have played PAL games before and lived to tell the tale is quickly forgotten. No - the crux of my argument is that it's running PAL versions when nobody in this country played them which is selling an inaccurate product. I played the hell out of the Tekken series, and I can tell immediately if the game is at 83% speed or whatever. And millions of people did play PAL games, and a *lot* of them knew there was something wrong with them. If you spent your childhood growing up on Sonic in the US, would you be happy if a Genesis classic suddenly had this: Edited December 5, 2018 by deepthaw 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepthaw Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 That's kind of a meaningless metric though. People will buy just about anything at clearance. If I walked in and saw a Playstation Classic for twenty dollars, yeah, even I'd buy it. It's how I wound up with my Genesis Flashback HD... I got it at a steep discount. (Fortunately it got hacked pretty soon after that, making it more useful.) I'd buy it for $20 for the USB PS1 controllers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Which makes this product quite shocking as Sony clearly has the resources and ability to make a really good PS1 mini. How they fouled up so badly is really a big question. Of course, being limited IP wise as opposed to what Nintendo, Sega, or even Atari can throw out there doesn't help. Still, for $100 it should be better than what it is. No doubt about it. PSTV was Vita based using modern ARM ASICs (high end cell phone technology for 2011 but extremely cheap mass produced cell phone technology for 2019!). The Playstation was MIPS based with SGI owned graphics chips. It would be very expensive to mass produce given MIPS architecture is dead and the SGI graphics technology was sold to RackSystems which never even designed VLSI chips. Given Sony could even get the IP rights a custom ASIC with old significantly modified MIPS R3K designs integrated with 25 year old custom Sony owned graphics chips would then be very expensive and not likely profitable under $200+. A low end FPGA could have been an option but the cost would still not be in the desired retro console price range. I think emulation was Sony's ONLY option. I'm just shocked Sony did not use their in house emulators used for the on-line backward compatibility gaming. I honestly think Sony farmed out the entire design with an extremely strict budget ... and the shitty Playstation Classic Mini is all Sony got. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) again, apologies if this has been beaten to death, but say I'm 'average Joe gamer' (which most of the time, I qualify, lol) and I buy the Mini. How does the Mini *play* in its current state? If I buy one, turn it on, launch up a game, would I be able to reasonably play the games as they are? Not looking for perfection, but do the games at least play OK? I mean, yeah, I can watch the review vids on YouTube, but I can't separate the ones dogging it just because it's popular to dog it versus not. Edited December 5, 2018 by digdugnate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.