Why did the N64 not do as well in Japan or Europe compared to the US?

[Bubsy3000]

My point is that Nintendo Gant dominated in modern times and used the PS4 and the WiiU (and the WiiU's catastrophic sales without comparison) as an example of how Nintendo isn't dominating. My argument is valid.

It isn't because the Wii U was the champ and then it's successor continued where it left off, so when did Sony dominate?

 

Only really works if you decide to discard the hybrid part of the Switch.

[Bubsy3000]

The Switch year one sales outsold PS4 year one sales by quite a margin. That's all that's important moving forward. I was a day one supporter of Wii-U and a day one supporter of Switch. I regret neither. Possibly my one regret was buying a bunch of sealed Wii-U games after the announcement it would soon be discontinued, then rebuying them the following year for the Switch.

 

Wii-U was a good system if a bit misunderstood. Switch took eerything positive about the Wii-U, made it better, then took all the negatives and eliminated them. Off TV gameplay was an awesome concept. Off TV gameplay being limited to one room, not so much. Off TV gaming around the house, on the bus, at the park, awesome.

The one thing I'll ding Switch on is power, but that's understandable given it's hybrid architecture and Nintendo hasn't really went all in on power since the GC.

[derFunkenstein]

I didn't say Sony dominated. I said Nintendo didn't ALWAYS dominate "modern times". Gotta read what I wrote, not what you think I meant.

[Bubsy3000]

I didn't say Sony dominated. I said Nintendo didn't ALWAYS dominate "modern times". Gotta read what I wrote, not what you think I meant.

But you yourself didn't read what you wrote. Your original reply was to my statement that Nintendo dominated Japan in modern times, by saying it wasn't. But we have Japanese sales proving otherwise due to the transparency of Japanese hardware and software sales, unlike in NA and Europe where things are not as transparent.

 

If not Nintendo the only other possible company would have been Sony, so either you believed Sony dominated and not Nintendo, or your objection to Nintendo doesn't really make much sense. Wii U had the crown and passed it off to the Switch. I don't see anything controversial with that statement.

[derFunkenstein]

Atari Pogostick, is that you?

[youxia]

It's clear to see that the reason Playstation was/is such a flop is because they didn't go with Gex as a mascot. Isn't that rather obvious?

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

And far less clunky to hold. An OS that pops up instantly and does so between the menus too, not waiting 30-60+sec. Not backwards made internally in how games work and not with an absurdly Saturn-ish like hellish coding setup for it either unlike the Switch which uses the common console, mobile, and PC development engines and is a snap to port between it and others. The only thing it could really be dinged for in all fairness would be them sacrificing so much potential in handheld mode to preserve the battery, it could have been given a slider perhaps like 3DS does to extend the juice a bit (brightness, powersave modes.)

 

The one thing I'll ding Switch on is power, but that's understandable given it's hybrid architecture and Nintendo hasn't really went all in on power since the GC.

The console could be made more powerful with a beefy heatsink and overclocking, eliminating portability. It could have been made more powerful by utilizing the Tegra x2 instead of x1, but it would have been over $600 at launch and fallen flat on it's face. We will get an upgraded Switch with Tegra X2 processor when it becomes affordable for Nintendo to do so, just like the "Pro" models of the PS4 and XBone. We may get cost reduced compact handheld only models or console only models. They might eventually come in a half dozen different form factors like 3DS did. But for the time being, they are doing well and it is full steam ahead with the current model.

[Andromeda Stardust]

It's clear to see that the reason Playstation was/is such a flop is because they didn't go with Gex as a mascot. Isn't that rather obvious?

Bubsy's the only Mascot you'll ever need.

 

Sure beats Atari's Space Invaders and Pitfall Harry. Sorry that was Taito and Activision. Well at least there's Pacman. Oh wait, that's Namco. What about Robotron and Joust? Nope, that's Williams. Yeah Atari basically Pong and Breakout to chose from for mascots. A large white square pixel. Yeah and that Tempest blaster thingy made up of jumbled colored lines...

 

Nintendo had Mario and Zelda, Sega had Wonder Boy and Sonic, NEC had Bonk, Sony had Spyro, Ratchet and Clank, etc...

[Tanooki]

Well yeah I know that. The system is a semi-gimped version of the Shield Tablet I have, though if you look at just raw what it is, it looks worse for gimping than it is. Nvidia put a lot of forced baggage on their device which really draws away from what the tablet can do (mini console version as well) that Nintendo going very lean with their footprint avoided so it counter balanced it out to a point. Had they just gone console with it, they could have stepped up to the slightly nicer tier Tegra X1 from the K1 in that case plus not bothered with down grading it losing the portability factor in the process. But in the end it would have not played well for them doing that, you couldn't use the obvious design point of it being a portable first as an excuse for not making another me-too boring box to keep up with the other guys.

 

That X2 got delayed, still isn't out. But I think NIntendo was thinking forward in what you're saying there on a Pro model. All the breakdowns online show the entire device is all LEGO like modular. Tegra, the RAM, bluetooth, wireless, internal storage, etc modules are all snap/drop in parts to the main board inside. It wouldn't be a stretch for them to keep using what they have, and pop in the custom X2 style setup and a healthy (2x-4x?) RAM boost along side in a Switch PRO model for like 2020. It would be highly acceptable and Nintendo owners would think nothing of it as that has been their thing since the GBC got some colors thrown at it and a 2x CPU clock upgrade and 2-4x the ram/wram into the that boost. While the GBA never got upped, the DS (to Dsi) and 3DS (to new 3DS) all did. I'd call it stupid and foolish to think they wouldn't pull that game again on consumers. Right now though, not a chance, sells like crack and it's not looking out of step or long in the tooth being like a year and a half old.

[00010000]

But if it was only about Jrpgs why would the N64 still do as well as the Saturn?

 

Saturn had high rpg sales in japan, some even comparable to the PSX. In fact so called "strategy rpgs" were generally more more successful on the Satrun than the PSX with the biggest game on that being FF tactics.

 

It also seems despite selling on par with each other the N64 has 18 games with over 500k sold and the Saturn only has 7 games with over 500k sold. So it seems that the N64 even without the Rpgs got a higher attache rate than the Saturn.

 

FF and DQ are no question, you are right that those games did well over 3 million per entry for mainline games, and a big deal on the PSX, but whether that's the MAIN reason why the N64 failed in japan I'm not too sure.

 

I know japan also experienced the droughts but not sure if it was a bad as what we saw over here.

 

It's almost as if Dreamcast never came out in Japan and cut off a lot of Saturn's momentum there as a result of it. It's almost as if Mario and Zelda weren't household name brands in Japan thanks to Famicom and Super Famicom which would explain why those games likely still did very well sales-wise (we can look at the Wii U as proof of this).

 

Hmmmm.... Dude, you're really over-complicating this. Throw in what was just said with everyone else saying JRPGs and the cartridge format, and there's your whole answer. Are we done here? xD

[Bubsy3000]

 

It's almost as if Dreamcast never came out in Japan and cut off a lot of Saturn's momentum there as a result of it. It's almost as if Mario and Zelda weren't household name brands in Japan thanks to Famicom and Super Famicom which would explain why those games likely still did very well sales-wise (we can look at the Wii U as proof of this).

 

Hmmmm.... Dude, you're really over-complicating this. Throw in what was just said with everyone else saying JRPGs and the cartridge format, and there's your whole answer. Are we done here? xD

We have Japanese sales figures due to the transparency of the tracking organizations, the DC did nothing to cut the Saturns momentum it was already losing Momentum before then.

 

Mario and Zelda weren't the only reasons for it either, N64 best seller list trumps the Saturns yet they sold around a similar amount. If it was just about Jrpgs than the Saturn would have at least produced a gap of a few million, it didn't. More people brought non-rpgs games on the N64 than they brought Rpg games on the Saturn.

[JBerel]

You really need another hobby boyo.

 

[00010000]

We have Japanese sales figures due to the transparency of the tracking organizations, the DC did nothing to cut the Saturns momentum it was already losing Momentum before then.

 

Mario and Zelda weren't the only reasons for it either, N64 best seller list trumps the Saturns yet they sold around a similar amount. If it was just about Jrpgs than the Saturn would have at least produced a gap of a few million, it didn't. More people brought non-rpgs games on the N64 than they brought Rpg games on the Saturn.

 

Those momentum cutters were called FFVII and Dragon Quest VIII. This isn't hard to figure out.

 

You're acting as if SFC's impact in Japan was not a factor for N64 still managing to save some face. Why, I do not know. N64 owners in Japan seemed to gravitate more to fewer games in bigger numbers, whereas Saturn owners there gravitated to more games in smaller numbers. And no one said it was "just" JRPGs, but lack of JRPGs did play a large part in N64's massive drop from SFC in that region.

 

Not that this really matters; you will most likely try finding a way to strawman in other talking points just like in the other thread, because by now your intents in these threads seems to be more clear and I have to say, it's somewhat pathetic. You can probably guess what I'm getting at, but save yourself the trouble and just keep it in your head, as I will mine. What i will say, though, is that such "things" hamper these kind of discussions in the long-term :/

[Bubsy3000]

 

Those momentum cutters were called FFVII and Dragon Quest VIII. This isn't hard to figure out.

 

You're acting as if SFC's impact in Japan was not a factor for N64 still managing to save some face. Why, I do not know. N64 owners in Japan seemed to gravitate more to fewer games in bigger numbers, whereas Saturn owners there gravitated to more games in smaller numbers. And no one said it was "just" JRPGs, but lack of JRPGs did play a large part in N64's massive drop from SFC in that region.

 

Not that this really matters; you will most likely try finding a way to strawman in other talking points just like in the other thread, because by now your intents in these threads seems to be more clear and I have to say, it's somewhat pathetic. You can probably guess what I'm getting at, but save yourself the trouble and just keep it in your head, as I will mine. What i will say, though, is that such "things" hamper these kind of discussions in the long-term :/

It wasn't, because the Saturn was originally doing better and then the N64 caught up and never looked back. Saturn got ports of games selling bucket loads on the PSX that were not on the N64 and the N64 still sold evenly without any of those genres being represented.

 

N64 Jrpgs may have been an issue when competing with the PlayStation but the N64 did not need them to beat the Saturn. You need to realize that not everyone is Anti-sega by pointing out that they didn't handle things well. You're refusal to admit what's well documented by Segas own staff in both countries is baffling.

[00010000]

It wasn't, because the Saturn was originally doing better and then the N64 caught up and never looked back. Saturn got ports of games selling bucket loads on the PSX that were not on the N64 and the N64 still sold evenly without any of those genres being represented.

 

N64 Jrpgs may have been an issue when competing with the PlayStation but the N64 did not need them to beat the Saturn. You need to realize that not everyone is Anti-sega by pointing out that they didn't handle things well. You're refusal to admit what's well documented by Segas own staff in both countries is baffling.

 

N64 sales in Japan (officially) go until at least 2000, likely 2001, and by "beat" you mean virtually tied, as in technical terms the Saturn still outsold it. Anyone aware of the market at the time can tell you that by the time the Dreamcast came out, Sega basically shifted their focus to that, even in Japan, even if Saturn received some 3rd party releases afterwards. Nintendo OTOH had that time to basically focus solely on N64 i the region and (for handhelds) GameBoy Color, so I'm not particularly surprised that N64 sales (almost) caught up to Saturn there for that reason alone. Still, however, it's pyrrhic victory in Nintendo's case because they simply lost too much ground to both Sega and Sony that gen coming from SFC to even call the N64's final performance in Japan respectable.

 

I don't see why you think I'm saying *everyone* is anti-Sega; very specifically implied you in that, you seem to be trying to deflect that implication by casting others into it. And, I would not have made the assertion if I didn't notice a pattern in your posts on this and other similar topics, your tone in those posts, your leaps of logic, attempts at countering points with questionable samples, and many parts lacking understanding of context. It's the cumulative output from you in those areas (at least from what I've seen in those threads) that led me to that conclusion; if I noticed it with others (well, I HAVE somewhat seen in one other individual on the boards, but this isn't about them atm), I'd of implicated them as well.

 

And I'm not the sort of guy to make those type of implications lightly, but when a spade's a spade you kinda have to call it for what it is imho. But, while you seem to be possibly thinking I'm some sort of fanboy (never mind I've also mentioned of Sega's incompetence with certain business strategies during the period, their failure at building long-term IP presence gen-over-gen with perfectly valid IP, lack of home-exclusive bonus content for arcade ports of the era, etc., things an actual "fanboy" would try avoid doing at all costs :/), at least you haven't outright said it, so while we obviously aren't seeing eye-to-eye on these discussions I at least respect the fact you haven't tried de-legitimizing or dismissing my (imo) fair-and-balanced points...at least not yet.

[Bubsy3000]

 

N64 sales in Japan (officially) go until at least 2000, likely 2001, and by "beat" you mean virtually tied, as in technical terms the Saturn still outsold it. Anyone aware of the market at the time can tell you that by the time the Dreamcast came out, Sega basically shifted their focus to that, even in Japan, even if Saturn received some 3rd party releases afterwards. Nintendo OTOH had that time to basically focus solely on N64 i the region and (for handhelds) GameBoy Color, so I'm not particularly surprised that N64 sales (almost) caught up to Saturn there for that reason alone. Still, however, it's pyrrhic victory in Nintendo's case because they simply lost too much ground to both Sega and Sony that gen coming from SFC to even call the N64's final performance in Japan respectable.

 

I don't see why you think I'm saying *everyone* is anti-Sega; very specifically implied you in that, you seem to be trying to deflect that implication by casting others into it. And, I would not have made the assertion if I didn't notice a pattern in your posts on this and other similar topics, your tone in those posts, your leaps of logic, attempts at countering points with questionable samples, and many parts lacking understanding of context. It's the cumulative output from you in those areas (at least from what I've seen in those threads) that led me to that conclusion; if I noticed it with others (well, I HAVE somewhat seen in one other individual on the boards, but this isn't about them atm), I'd of implicated them as well.

 

And I'm not the sort of guy to make those type of implications lightly, but when a spade's a spade you kinda have to call it for what it is imho. But, while you seem to be possibly thinking I'm some sort of fanboy (never mind I've also mentioned of Sega's incompetence with certain business strategies during the period, their failure at building long-term IP presence gen-over-gen with perfectly valid IP, lack of home-exclusive bonus content for arcade ports of the era, etc., things an actual "fanboy" would try avoid doing at all costs :/), at least you haven't outright said it, so while we obviously aren't seeing eye-to-eye on these discussions I at least respect the fact you haven't tried de-legitimizing or dismissing my (imo) fair-and-balanced points...at least not yet.

I really don't get it, we have transparent sales figures for Japan, the Dreamcast had NOTHING to do with the Saturn momentum collapsing that happened BEFOR the DC came out. You could argue it made it worse but the Saturn was already done in Japan by the time the DC came out. The attach rate on the N64 was already almost double the Saturns in 1998 as well. People brought more games on the N64 than the Saturn in Japan across numerous games and not just Mario and Zelda as you continue to imply. Saturn got all the genres covered plus an early system seller with Virtua Fighter and it still collapsed.

 

The reason why we don't see eye to eye is you seem to argue based on the assumption most are anti-Sega. You've made some very odd comparisons to try and explain the capabilities of both the Saturn and the Genesis even though the example used for the two are worse than their competitors. You also haven't really agree on them not having long-lasting Ips otherwise you'd understand it took years before the Genesis started getting hit games. An statement you continue to disagree with despite almost all the best selling Genesis games of 800k or more being post 1992 outside Haltered Beast, Ms. Pacman and Sonic.

[jaybird3rd]

Atari Pogostick, is that you?

Sure seems that way, doesn't it? I think two reports from this thread is (more than) enough.