Harmony or Uno cart advantages?

[matthew954]

Ok, I have a good question. I found a listing on eBay for a Harmony Cart going for $26 at the time of this post. Is there much of an advantage of either buying that cart, as opposed to buying either the UNO Cart or Harmony Encore Cart?

[Keatah]

Harmony. I know you can run some of the latest (and graciously made-freely-available) homebrews on Harmony.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Keatah

[Shawn]

Ok, I have a good question. I found a listing on eBay for a Harmony Cart going for $26 at the time of this post. Is there much of an advantage of either buying that cart, as opposed to buying either the UNO Cart or Harmony Encore Cart?

 

It won't go for $26 bucks. Even more so now cause you posted about it. Best to save that kinda info until after you win and have the item in hand.

[matthew954]

Yeah I already figured that. It was going for 20 when I first spotted it. But what are the overall advantages of the Encore over the UNO? I've read that the Encore can or atleast should play all 2600 roms, retail and homebrew both. But I'm not as sure about the UNO cart. From what I've read they're a more affordable option.

[Keatah]

On the other hand, Uno-Cart appears to be in active development.. so there's that.

[Heroes & Shadows]

Harmony Carts can play roughly 98% of the Atari Library. Only games larger then 32k i think won't work. Encore on the other hand will play everything out there right now. I think it caps at 512k. Harmony has a USB port for homebrew dev, not sure about Encore. Harmony goes for $60, Encore $80 i believe.Hpnestly I can a test to the Harmony being a great product. The developer seems to be very active and answers questions very quickly, no idea about Uno. Overall i would highly recommend Harmony/Encore flash carts.

[Keatah]

Harmony/Encore have a 70MHz ARM co-processor which is used by some recent homebrews.

[+MacRorie]

The UNO will play all standard 2600 files as well as most home-brews. Add to the fact that it is in active development means that we are constantly expanding its capabilities. Add that to the $50 price tag and it is a pretty persuasive deal. Of course, I always recommend that you buy both!

 

Here is the detail from the manual:

Compatibility
The UnoCart-2600 should be able to emulate every cartridge released during the commercial life of the 2600. Newer homebrew titles should also be compatible with the UnoCart-2600, unless they use the DPC+ co-processor features specific to the Harmony/Melody cartridge. Note that the DPC support on the cartridge is not complete but it is sufficient to play Pitfall II.
Arcadia/Starpath Supercharger titles are emulated with the multi-load parts combined in a single file. Up to 256 loads are supported (2MB file). The Supercharger BIOS will use the TV type set by the UnoCart-2600 TV jumper.
ROM Files
The UnoCart uses cartridge detection signatures from the Stella Atari 2600 emulator to auto-detect all common cartridge types. If a file has an extension of .BIN, .ROM or .A26 it will be auto-detected. If you want to force the cartridge to be emulated as a specific type, you can use the file extensions listed in the table below. Note: The table does not reflect the fact that currently shipping firmware will allow the use of 256k .3E ROMs.

[matthew954]

Well, I read through the Uno 2600 thread last night, and I'm leaning toward the Uno Cart at the moment. Partly being that I can justify the cost of it more than the Encore. Plus I think its kinda cool watching the project evolve right in front of me.

[MMarcoux66]

Well, I read through the Uno 2600 thread last night, and I'm leaning toward the Uno Cart at the moment. Partly being that I can justify the cost of it more than the Encore. Plus I think its kinda cool watching the project evolve right in front of me.

 

I have both. I cannot update my Harmony and have had very little help from the developers. I've posted several times and gotten very little help. Conversely the Uno 2600 group have been awesome. Like you said, just look at the thread. Those guys are just awesome. Might punt my Harmony and get another Uno. Just my experience.

[Keatah]

Is it ever possible the Uno could eventually run DPC+ like SpaceRocks?

Edited October 10, 2018 by Keatah

[DirtyHairy]

Is it ever possible the Uno could eventually run DPC+ like SpaceRocks?

 

 

Definitely. I did some preliminary experiments in emulation that mimic the STM32 address space and was successfully able to trick DPC+ games into running there. There are some issues to overcome (mainly the different memory layout between the two SOCs), but both run THUMB code, and with patience and a few dirty tricks, a driver could be created. I have a crude roadmap on how to do it, but I don't have enough time to really try and go there at the moment. Maybe later this year...

[Keatah]

If what you say is true, and there's no reason to doubt it, then I would change my recommendation to UnoCart. Because although UC isn't quite there yet - it seems to be in active development with support. And that's worth a lot in my book.

[ZackAttack]

The Uno is newer and is based on a much stronger ARM chip than the Encore. Games that use the ARM chip in the Encore could be ported to the Uno fairly easily since it has more performance. There are games in development for the Uno which are too large to be ported back to the Encore without some significant effort and in some cases it may just not be possible.

 

The one exception is bus-stuffing. This has been demonstrated to work on the Encore. It may or may not work on the Uno. No one has tested it yet. Though the only fully working demo I'm aware of is the raycasting demo I posted a while back and I only call it fully working because no one has reported any glitches to me with the most recent version. The Uno will probably handle bus-stuffing as well as the Encore once someone adds support for it, but until that happens it's a big unknown.

[+stephena]

One other point to consider is that anything that runs on the Harmony can also be emulated in Stella, so that's a boon to developers. But not everything that can run on the UnoCart can (yet) run in Stella. That's one major area I want to work on post-6.0 Stella release.

 

Also, I recommend the Uno over the Harmony at this point, if for no other reason than the open-source nature of the code and the responsiveness of the developers.

[matthew954]

So when I order the Uno, is the cart and everything assembled? Or do I need to have an empty cart ready for it?

[MMarcoux66]

So when I order the Uno, is the cart and everything assembled? Or do I need to have an empty cart ready for it?

 

If you get it from MacRorie, it comes in a nice 3D printed cartridge with a label of your choice. Old thing you need to supply is the SD card.

[phoenixdownita]

So when I order the Uno, is the cart and everything assembled? Or do I need to have an empty cart ready for it?

Here

https://www.thebrewingacademy.com/2600UNO_OrderInfo.html

 

I bought from him (MacRorie), the case is typical 3D printed so don't expect injection mold quality, it's not bad mind you, just set your expectations right, for the cost it's perfect (and yes it is already assembled).

 

EDIT:

Also at the website above note that the shipping costs are already in the final price mentioned (50/53/55) ... it wasn't clear to me the first time around.

[+batari]

I adjusted the price of Harmony to be more competitive, and I think it's probably time to open source Harmony after I sell down my current stock.

 

I just wondered something. Once you open-source something like this do you basically lose all rights to it? I mean, couldn't anyone start making Unocarts right now and the creator wouldn't be able to do a thing about it? My concern with Harmony is once I open-source it, some inferior clones will start popping up everywhere. That is why I want to sell down my stock before I release the source.

[MMarcoux66]

Just a quick update. Batari reached out to me and is helping me to get my Harmony working to get updates. I really appreciate his help!

Edited October 20, 2018 by MMarcoux66

[DirtyHairy]

I just wondered something. Once you open-source something like this do you basically lose all rights to it? I mean, couldn't anyone start making Unocarts right now and the creator wouldn't be able to do a thing about it? My concern with Harmony is once I open-source it, some inferior clones will start popping up everywhere. That is why I want to sell down my stock before I release the source.

 

(Disclaimer: I am no lawyer, and the situation in Germany (where I live) is different from the US, so take this with a grain of salt) You retain your copyright, so you still are free to make license changes in the future (provided that any other people that acquired copyright by contributing code agree); however, that (to my understanding) wouldn't affect copies acquired prior to the license change. Other than that, the permissions granted by the license vary.

 

With the GPLv2/v3, anyone is essentially free to do as they please, as long as they include a copy of the GPL and license any changes under the GPL. This definitely also includes the right for commercial use and monetarization, as long as the license is unchanged. Other OS licenses usually are more permissive; i.e. the BSD license does not require you to license modifications under the same license.

 

However, there are also projects with dual license models that are OS only for noncommercial usage and that enforce different license terms if the code is used commercially. Some projects also use home-grown licenses that are OS but explicitly forbid commercial use (e.g. snes9x); however, I am not sure how legally sound those are.

 

At any rate, regardless of the license terms, open sourcing code and hardware design will mean that they are out there, and even the license forbid commercial usage in a legally sound way, it may be ignored. There are enough examples of OS license violations in commercial products, and usually nobody goes through the hassle and financial risk of enforcing the license in court.

Edited October 20, 2018 by DirtyHairy

[jetset]

So I bought an Uno and it's due to arrive tomorrow. Anything I need know? Like are there any brands of sd card that don't work (for example). I heard each directory is limited to 100 files, but then I saw someone on youtube about it saying it was 80.
I am SOOOO pumped to be able to play some of the hacks and the goofy little 2k games again.

[xefned]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but a significant detail wasn't mentioned: The reason I chose Uno over Harmony is the ability to order the roms alphabetically, rather than in the order you add them. 

[xefned]

Happy to bump an old thread, but does anyone know which games the Harmony Encore will play that the Unocart won't? Such a list does not exist.

 

And MacRorie's advice above is: "I always recommend that you buy both." When you get too Atari obsessed, buying multiple items that do mostly the same thing starts to seem reasonable. Someone mentioned that the Mappy demo won't run on the Unocart. Is this factual? Any others? Worth buying a Harmony Encore if you already own the Unocart? Enquiring mofos want to know!

 

I rehoused my Uno in a Combat because I apparently have nothing better to do.

[xefned]

I guess I can do some research and answer my own questions.  

Oddly, I owned a Harmony cart for a short time. Then found out about the Unocart, and bought that for the ability to sort roms alphabetically. Then sold the Harmony without using it because the xmas budget was tight.

 

Here are the games that other people have speculated won't run on the Unocart.

 

1. Draconian
2. Space Rocks
3. Mappy
4. WOW Arcade
5. Scramble
6. Super Cobra Arcade
7. Space Cactus Canyon
8. Galagon
9. Boulder Dash
10. Stay Frosty 2

 

I have not verified any of the above but I will update as I learn more.

 

I remember my thinking in selling the Harmony cart was that for several of these, the full retail ROM is not available for purchase and I wouldn't be missing out on much. Demo roms are available for Galagon and Mappy. Will update (and annoy) as information permits!

Edited February 23, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch