CollectorVision Phoenix Kickstarter is now live!

[Hannacek]

Here's a few photos of last weekend at PRGE

 

 

 

Are you able to share any comments these people made during the show? Or what were some of the general comments and reactions from other people? What was the reactions of people hearing about it for the first time?

Edited October 22, 2018 by Hannacek

[Keatah]

 

True, and that's exactly why there's not alot of people talking about it on youtube and social medias....

 

Nowadays, people prefer drama/click bait

 

A.n.y.w.a.y..........

 

Maybe, somehow, the word needs to be put via other avenues. Because real products aren't as exciting as fake ones on social media. By what other avenues I do not know. If social media attracts drama seekers, do you want the project associated with that?

[Keatah]

Curious to how the FPGA compares with that of Analogue's newest units as those were able to also have cores developed that played SNES games as well. In fact their first NES version was jail broken to support over 18 consoles.

Would the hardware in this unit support SNES, that is, with right core is it possible to play SNES games?

What version of the Intel Cyclone V FPGA does it use?

People fail to realize how awesome this console unit COULD be (not that it's not already supporting the best way to play Colecovision). The right FPGA could open up this to be THE console to own with endless possibilities of cores developed for other consoles. So far most units are closed source and do not support ROMs via SD card but are cartridge only based.

230K in 30 days is pretty challenging and I wonder if this had been marketed more then just a coleco based FPGA it could more quickly meet that goal. Who knows. But adding now the Atari 2600 support should help immensely with showing the possibilities of this unit to those on the fence.

 

I don't know anything about the specs of this console. And I don't think the "right" FPGA with the right power/price is on the market yet. Soon though.

 

I continue to think a "support-all-systems" console would need something in area of 200,000 gates in one FPGA and 100,000 in another, plus 128MB RAM for those two. AND a full x86 processor to help manage it all, provide a refined and rapid way to switch cores, and provide comprehensive options and controls for each system. Throw in user-added mass storage to make everything convenient. I'm guessing this would start at around $500+ today. Perhaps cheaper in the future. But it would be primed and ready to handle just about every system up to the original Xbox. Many people want such a system. I know. I've talked to them.

 

We've seen farting and gassing from RetroBlox and Coleco Chameleon about such systems. And we've seen Kevtris' Zimba 3000 discussions - which I believe has now been broken up into a plan to sell several low-cost consoles instead of one Flagship..

 

To me it would appear that eventually all early systems will sooner or later be covered by FPGA just as they are currently by Software Emulation. Only difference is we're seeing coverage spread among several FPGA systems/boards. Whereas with Software Emulation you can do it all on one box. Pick your method. How bad do you want "all-in-one".

 

Software Emulation also tends to be more open-source oriented, this invites and challenges other devs to hop on a project. FPGA is tending to be more closed source and highly specific to one chip/board combo. If you don't purchase that, then you need to redo the core for what you DO have.

 

I don't mean to make a contest between SE and FPGA, but instead, am merely pointing out that done right with the right auxiliary support an FPGA rig can be as nimble and pleasing to segue from one virtual console to another as SE allows.

[DuggerVideoGames]

Gamester81 uploaded a video about the CollectorVision Phoenix. I hope this helps it get more exposure/recognition.

 

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Gamester81 uploaded a video about the CollectorVision Phoenix. I hope this helps it get more exposure/recognition.

 

 

The Red/Blue shell is pretty cool.

[retroillucid]

The Red/Blue shell is pretty cool.

 

With the injection mold, we'll be able to do any colors and transparent ones

[Swami]

Some third party reviewer had mentioned using a PS/2 number pad like this as a CV keypad

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6RP6RF8339&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Keyboards-_-9SIA6RP6RF8339&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8eHtKeb3gIVENbACh20YABbEAQYASABEgLT_PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

and a keyboard as a CV controller. This was a few months ago. Was that just speculation or does it work?

[retroillucid]

Some third party reviewer had mentioned using a PS/2 number pad like this as a CV keypad

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6RP6RF8339&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-Keyboards-_-9SIA6RP6RF8339&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8eHtKeb3gIVENbACh20YABbEAQYASABEgLT_PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

and a keyboard as a CV controller. This was a few months ago. Was that just speculation or does it work?

 

Yes, check this video (1:46)

 

[Swami]

Yes, check this video (1:46)

 

 

Cool! A number pad is going to be a lot more affordable than the Wico one and probably easier to use than the controller keypad, especially a used Super Action Controller keypad.

[TPR]

TPR seems to be the only one creating the drama.

 

I am the only one trying to put a STOP to the drama. I'm not sure why the AtariAge CV community seems to have become so toxic lately. It doesn't help anyone and it certainly won't help get this project funded.

 

If someone is offended by something I've posted, remember that's is a "feeling" and not a "fact." Please do not confuse the two. Posts like THIS and THIS are based on facts. You are welcome to agree or disagree as long as you can express those opinions in a civil manner but purposely pushing buttons or being obnoxious for the sake of drama, which some people are clearly doing, is exactly what we are trying to avoid here.

 

I have been asked for answers to why I've made the videos the way I have, and I've responded in kind. People have had concerns about the console on a CRT monitor, and I have created a video showing it. People have questioned what the console looks like on various TVs compared to other systems in different resolutions, and I have posted in response to that. People have asked for direct captured gameplay footage without any music or editing, so here you go...

 

I am volunteering my time showcasing features of the system that will debunk rumors or concerns but for some reason that just doesn't seem to be good enough for some people and I believe it is because those people WANT this system to be fake. They want this thread to be another huge drama party like we've seen in the past. This community has had ENOUGH DRAMA! Can we please focus on the fact that this is one of the best projects to come to life for this community and do everything we can to support it instead of nitpicking it? If you don't have the trust or belief in the project creators, that's fine. Ignore the project and move on. That's not asking too much. Thank you for listening.

 

Kickstarter link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1408938247/collectorvision-phoenix-an-fpga-colecovision-conso

[jfcarbel]

 

I don't know anything about the specs of this console. And I don't think the "right" FPGA with the right power/price is on the market yet. Soon though.

 

I continue to think a "support-all-systems" console would need something in area of 200,000 gates in one FPGA and 100,000 in another, plus 128MB RAM for those two. AND a full x86 processor to help manage it all, provide a refined and rapid way to switch cores, and provide comprehensive options and controls for each system. Throw in user-added mass storage to make everything convenient. I'm guessing this would start at around $500+ today. Perhaps cheaper in the future. But it would be primed and ready to handle just about every system up to the original Xbox. Many people want such a system. I know. I've talked to them.

 

We've seen farting and gassing from RetroBlox and Coleco Chameleon about such systems. And we've seen Kevtris' Zimba 3000 discussions - which I believe has now been broken up into a plan to sell several low-cost consoles instead of one Flagship..

 

To me it would appear that eventually all early systems will sooner or later be covered by FPGA just as they are currently by Software Emulation. Only difference is we're seeing coverage spread among several FPGA systems/boards. Whereas with Software Emulation you can do it all on one box. Pick your method. How bad do you want "all-in-one".

 

Software Emulation also tends to be more open-source oriented, this invites and challenges other devs to hop on a project. FPGA is tending to be more closed source and highly specific to one chip/board combo. If you don't purchase that, then you need to redo the core for what you DO have.

 

I don't mean to make a contest between SE and FPGA, but instead, am merely pointing out that done right with the right auxiliary support an FPGA rig can be as nimble and pleasing to segue from one virtual console to another as SE allows.

Yes, you are correct about all-in-one likely out of reach. I should have better classified what I was thinking about. More in terms of a classic console ending right before the Gamecubes and PS1. Not even sure if FPGA could handle the N64 either, but perhaps.

 

Yes, I always felt if one wanted to get it all like Gamecube and above would require a x86 at high clocked CPU.

 

But I think an FPGA could get you most classic retro gaming including I believe NeoGeo. Or is something like NeoGeo also a bit out of range?

[phoenixdownita]

Yes, you are correct about all-in-one likely out of reach. I should have better classified what I was thinking about. More in terms of a classic console ending right before the Gamecubes and PS1. Not even sure if FPGA could handle the N64 either, but perhaps.

 

Yes, I always felt if one wanted to get it all like Gamecube and above would require a x86 at high clocked CPU.

 

But I think an FPGA could get you most classic retro gaming including I believe NeoGeo. Or is something like NeoGeo also a bit out of range?

The creators of the project stated they are working with a Spartan-6 LX9 (that's what shows in the picture in the kickstarter):

 

 

Here's the literature about that family of FPGAs

https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds160.pdf

 

It's smaller compared the Cyclone V used by Analogue but it's plentiful for the 8bits they are targeting.

It's the same one used by the RetroUSB AVS if that helps you to make the comparison more obvious.

 

EDIT: actually all info are on the offical forum first page:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/265958-collectorvision-game-system/page-1

(atm confirmed the CV core AND CV-SGM compatibility + 2600 core)

[jfcarbel]

Thanks, looks like 16bit (Genesis, SNES, NeoGeo) is out of range for this FPGA.

 

Makes sense as the next gen F18A looks to be targeting the Spartan-6 LX9.

 

Nice project and hope it succeeds being open source and all. Closed systems like Analogue's stuff have their place but a nice to have more variety like this in the FPGA space.

[youxia]

More in terms of a classic console ending right before the Gamecubes and PS1.

 

MiSTer is trying to achieve that, but it's more of a hobbyist/open-source thing so the progress is slow. If somebody was to come around and commercially release a similar board, upgraded for specs, with all the microcomputers and up-to-16bit consoles I think they could be on to a winner. Definitely would jump in myself, if the price was right (say <250$, 300 max)

[Bmack36]

The creators of the project stated they are working with a Spartan-6 LX9 (that's what shows in the picture in the kickstarter):

 

a1ac1d018112f03c1eb4e782414bf42a_original.jpg

 

Here's the literature about that family of FPGAs

https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds160.pdf

 

It's smaller compared the Cyclone V used by Analogue but it's plentiful for the 8bits they are targeting.

It's the same one used by the RetroUSB AVS if that helps you to make the comparison more obvious.

 

EDIT: actually all info are on the offical forum first page:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/265958-collectorvision-game-system/page-1

(atm confirmed the CV core AND CV-SGM compatibility + 2600 core)

 

That picture is actually the very first revision and most of the info on that first post is outdated now.

 

The FPGA is actually the LX16 version and there is only 512k of SRAM.

[Bmack36]

 

MiSTer is trying to achieve that, but it's more of a hobbyist/open-source thing so the progress is slow. If somebody was to come around and commercially release a similar board, upgraded for specs, with all the microcomputers and up-to-16bit consoles I think they could be on to a winner. Definitely would jump in myself, if the price was right (say <250$, 300 max)

 

You will not see a commercialized product equivalent to the mister any time soon. The Mister board is heavily subsidized and the FPGA chip alone is over $200.

[Keatah]

Yes, you are correct about all-in-one likely out of reach. I should have better classified what I was thinking about. More in terms of a classic console ending right before the Gamecubes and PS1. Not even sure if FPGA could handle the N64 either, but perhaps.

 

Yes, I always felt if one wanted to get it all like Gamecube and above would require a x86 at high clocked CPU.

 

But I think an FPGA could get you most classic retro gaming including I believe NeoGeo. Or is something like NeoGeo also a bit out of range?

 

I think NeoGeo would need a something a little more powerful than what's in here and the Analogue consoles. Instead of a $57 chip it would need the $100 or $150 chip.

 

I would point out that a 2004-era Pentium III or Pentium M clocked at 1.4 to 1.7GHz handle NeoGeo just fine. Today's 5GHz chips run NeoGeo while barely breaking idle.

 

TRIVIA: There are FPGA chips costing more than $40,000!

 

[Downland1983]

I've been on the fence with this for a while, but I finally pledged for a console with Sydney Hunter CIB. I've been thinking of getting a modded ColecoVision for a while (I have a stock Coleco and an Adam hooked up to CRT tv's in my spare bedroom) anyway. The Phoenix would easily take the place of the ColecoVision Flashback that's currently attached to my living room flat screen. So, this ticks all the right boxes for me. Thanks and appreciation for TPR's videos, Pixelboy's e-mail, and the Collectorvision team who I've had good dealings with in the past. Best of luck for this getting fully funded.

[phoenixdownita]

 

That picture is actually the very first revision and most of the info on that first post is outdated now.

 

The FPGA is actually the LX16 version and there is only 512k of SRAM.

I think you should update that thread then with all that applies, TPR can give you unlimited edits on that first post if you don't already have it.

 

It's great you have a beefier FPGA, LX16 is "morally" 2x an LX9 so more gates, more features, more possibilities.

It should be mentioned as (even if for geeks only) it's a welcome uptick in specs.

[insertclevernamehere]

No one's saying it but I'm sure I'm not the only one that's noticed. Halfway through the Kickstarter and less than 1/3 of the money raised. As a day one backer and someone who recognizes this as the BEST option to future proof my Colecovision gaming that has ever been and possibly ever will be, I'm feeling pretty gutted right now. Yes, it's not the ONLY option but Frankensteining an increasingly ancient console with new parts or attaching new machines like the SGM to an almost 40 year old console is not the best option. There's the upcoming HB Vision but frankly, that looks very home made. Not a very aesthetically pleasing console AT ALL. There's the possible Opcode Prometheus Lite but with their focus on the Omni, who knows how long we'll have to wait for that. So come on people. If there's anyone on the fence, it's time to spring into action and pledge some money to make this console a reality. I'm putting it on record right now. I don't normally buy lottery tickets but I think I might this time. If I win the jackpot, I promise to loan CollectorVision any possible short fall with 0% interest and 10 to 15 years to pay it back. Hell, I might even give them the money. No need to pay it back. It's a long shot. A very very long shot but you never know. Wish me luck.

Edited October 23, 2018 by insertclevernamehere

[Ikrananka]

No one's saying it but I'm sure I'm not the only one that's noticed. Halfway through the Kickstarter and less than 1/3 of the money raised. As a day one backer and someone who recognizes this as the BEST option to future proof my Colecovision gaming that has ever been and possibly ever will be, I'm feeling pretty gutted right now.

 

I'm one of the many who must have noticed too and am, at the moment, feeling as gutted as you are. Desperately hoping that there will be a massive surge of pledges, but am not holding my breath. I was pleased to hear that even if the KS doesn't reach it's goal that the Phoenix will still be available but with a 3D printed case. To be honest having a 3D printed case doesn't really bother me that much, but if the failed KS also means much less, or no further, development of the Phoenix beyond what it currently is, then that would be an absolute tragedy.

[Pixelboy]

I'm one of the many who must have noticed too and am, at the moment, feeling as gutted as you are. Desperately hoping that there will be a massive surge of pledges, but am not holding my breath. I was pleased to hear that even if the KS doesn't reach it's goal that the Phoenix will still be available but with a 3D printed case. To be honest having a 3D printed case doesn't really bother me that much, but if the failed KS also means much less, or no further, development of the Phoenix beyond what it currently is, then that would be an absolute tragedy.

Let's keep the post-mortem Kickstarter assessments for after November 7th, shall we?

[Keatah]

Well it's good to hear the project won't completely shut down when the kickstarter fails. A 3D printed case is no big downgrade. And there's always a future possibility of getting a much nicer case if somehow circumstances make it possible.

 

---

 

Unfortunately I can't pledge toward a kickstarter. I'm only allowed to buy things that are in the here and now.

[retroillucid]

Hey, this is a Phoenix!

Whatever is going to happen, the phoenix will rise again!

[Hannacek]

No one's saying it but I'm sure I'm not the only one that's noticed. Halfway through the Kickstarter and less than 1/3 of the money raised. As a day one backer and someone who recognizes this as the BEST option to future proof my Colecovision gaming that has ever been and possibly ever will be, I'm feeling pretty gutted right now. Yes, it's not the ONLY option but Frankensteining an increasingly ancient console with new parts or attaching new machines like the SGM to an almost 40 year old console is not the best option.

 

I think everyone has been thinking the same thing, the funding and backers are going up at a steady rate, but it will not be enough for the deadline. No one can say anything about this, because you get labeled a hater that wants to prevent the project from being funded. Because apparently saying anything that isn't 100% positive is the type of comment that prevents the project from being funded.

 

If this project doesn't get funded, then Collectorvision will probably make a better console, find another source of funding, or make the same console cheaper so the funding goal is reached.

Why does everyone stress how old and falling apart the original hardware is? I have a lot of old video games consoles, computers, TVs, stereos, a cassette player, etc from the same time period, and all that stuff works great. Original hardware has been very reliable in my experience, so I don't get why the CollectorVision people stress that as a main reason for needing new hardware.

 

Original hardware may need minor repairs from time to time. But, brand new electronics breakdown down all the time, and you throw it out without thinking and buy a new one. Home many phones, usb chargers, Tvs, printers, etc have you thrown away in the last 10 years without attempting to repair, without thinking about fixing it? The only difference is you feel bad about throwing out old video game consoles, so you think they need to be repaired, don't know how to repair, and get frustrated and give up. If you don't know how to maintain original hardware, you can go to ebay at any time and buy another one if you need to, there is no shortage of them for sale guaranteed to work or your money back. And you can sell your non-working console as is, and let someone else buy it who knows how to do the repair.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Hannacek