Jump to content
Bmack36

CollectorVision Phoenix Kickstarter is now live!

Recommended Posts

What I'm about to say below is going to be brutally honest, but its important to me that you know that my goal isn't to offend anyone at Collectorvision. I fully acknowledge that people put hard work into this project, but some things must be said.

Unfortunately, unless something big happens soon that brings a large amount of new interest into this Kickstarter it doesn't appear it will meet funding goal. The reason why it won't get funded isn't a mystery to myself and some others who are aware of this project.

I personally think the general idea for a FPGA Colecovision system is awesome, but unfortunaely this project was far too rushed and needed more development time. No matter how some people here want to spin it 480p is just not acceptable for a $200 FPGA machine, it simply isn't good enough. Also, the lack of direct captured footage shows a lack of confidence to me. Like is Collectorvision trying to hide some audio/video flaws, or is it the fact they know a 480p signal will not look so great on youtube?
This is not me hating on the system or the people behind it, but when you have companies like Analogue releasing sub $200 FPGA systems that are far more advanced than the Collectorvision then you can't expect to be successful. You gotta bring your A game. Hopefully Collectorvision tries again down the road and comes up with a much better product next time. Here are some things I believe could land you more success next time.

- 720p bare minimum.

- Drop the focus so heavily on Coleco and come up with an Atari/MSX/SG-1000/SMS system that also happens to play Coleco games. Having such a strong focus on Colecovision was obviously going to bring on some of that Coleco Chameleon smell and thats the last thing you want.

- Have better control of certain individuals who might be too emotionally attached to your projects. These people don't help your image at all with their inability to handle people's criticisms.

- Have direct captured footage ready from the start. We shouldn't have to ask for this, especially after kickstarter is already live.

I truly believe all those things listed above would be extremely beneficial and while won't gurarantee success it will definitely put you in a better position than you are now. I really want you to succeed, so again please don't take what I said above as an attack because that is not my intention. I truly hope you read this and take into consideration the things I said.

On a personal note I want to say thanks to BcMack36 for being a trooper and answering just about any question/concerns I've had. You're are a real stand up guy and I hope you don't get discouraged and regroup and try again.
Edited by SegaSnatcher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What I'm about to say below is going to be brutally honest, but its important to me that you know that my goal isn't to offend anyone at Collectorvision. I fully ackowledge that people put hard work into this project, but some things must be said.

 

Unfortunately, unless something big happens soon that brings a large amount of new interest into this Kickstarter it doesn't appear it will meet funding goal. The reason why it won't get funded isn't a mystery to myself and some others who are aware of this project.

 

I personally think the general idea for a FPGA Colecovision system is awesome, but unfortunaely this project was far too rushed and needed more development time. No matter how some people here want to spin it 480p is just not acceptable for a $200 FPGA machine, it simply isn't good enough. Also, the lack of direct captured footage shows a lack of confidence to me. Like is Collectorvision trying to hide some audio/video flaws, or is it the fact they know a 480p signal will not look so great on youtube?

This is not me hating on the system or the people behind it, but when you have companies like Analogue releasing sub $200 FPGA systems that are far more advanced than the Collectorvision then you can't expect to be successful. You gotta bring your A game. Hopefully Collectorvision tries again down the road and comes up with a much better product next time. Here are some things I believe could land you more success next time.

 

- 720p bare minimum.

 

- Drop the focus so heavily on Coleco and come up with an Atari/MSX/SG-1000/SMS system that also happens to play Coleco games. Having such a strong focus on Colecovision was obviously going to bring on some of that Coleco Chameleon smell and thats the last thing you want.

 

- Have better control of certain individuals who might be too emotionally attached to your projects. These people don't help your image at all with their inability to handle people's criticisms.

 

- Have direct captured footage ready from the start. We shouldn't have to ask for this, especially after kickstarter is already live.

 

I truly believe all those things listed above would be extremely beneficial and while won't gurarantee success it will definitely put you in a better position than you are now. I really want you to succeed, so again please don't take what I said above as an attack because that is not my intention. I truly hope you read this and take into consideration the things I said.

 

On a personal note I want to say thanks to BcMack36 for being a trooper and answering just about any question/concerns I've had. You're are a real stand up guy and I hope you don't get discouraged and regroup and try again.

 

 

It is exactly posts like this that are going to help be responsible for the project not funding. But hey, you seem to know how to do this better than anyone else, so I look forward to the FPGA console you develop and crowd fund. Best of luck to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It is exactly posts like this that are going to help be responsible for the project not funding. But hey, you seem to know how to do this better than anyone else, so I look forward to the FPGA console you develop and crowd fund. Best of luck to you.

We both know that's a ridiculous statement. Pointing out what this system lacks is 100% fair and reasonable, especially when there are other products in the same price range to compare to. This project as it currently stands would have been perfectly acceptable like 4 yrs ago before products like the AVS and Super NT were released, but in 2018 not so much. If I'm paying $200 for a FPGA system then I want a similar experience to what else is out there. I mean is that really asking for a lot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We both know that's a ridiculous statement. Pointing out what this system lacks is 100% fair and reasonable, especially when there are other products in the same price range to compare to. This project as it currently stands would have been perfectly acceptable like 4 yrs ago before products like the AVS and Super NT were released, but in 2018 not so much. If I'm paying $200 for a FPGA system then I want a similar experience to what else is out there. I mean is that really asking for a lot?

 

You're not comparing apples to apples. There is a huge difference between Analogue making a systems for the NES, SNES, and Sega Genesis, consoles that combined sold 140 million units and have an absoultely huge installed base of retro-fans, versus the ColecoVision, which sold 2 million units and has a very niche, but dedicated fanbase. I'm sure if Brian were making a system that had such a demand that it crashed the company's website on announcement day, this console would be half the price and the Kickstarter wouldn't even be necessary. But that's not the reality we live in.

 

There will be a lot of learning that comes from this Kickstarter campaign no matter what the end results are.

 

I just hope there are enough people out there who want this console that it does become a reality either within or outside of the Kickstarter campaign, and THAT is not asking for a lot.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You're not comparing apples to apples. There is a huge difference between Analogue making a systems for the NES, SNES, and Sega Genesis, consoles that combined sold 140 million units and have an absoultely huge installed base of retro-fans, versus the ColecoVision, which sold 2 million units and has a very niche, but dedicated fanbase. I'm sure if Brian were making a system that had such a demand that it crashed the company's website on announcement day, this console would be half the price and the Kickstarter wouldn't even be necessary. But that's not the reality we live in.

 

There will be a lot of learning that comes from this Kickstarter campaign no matter what the end results are.

 

I just hope there are enough people out there who want this console that it does become a reality either within or outside of the Kickstarter campaign, and THAT is not asking for a lot.

I'm not expecting this project to be the Analogue of Colecovision consoles. I would simply be happy if it was the AVS of Colecovision consoles. And I don't think I'm alone with this thinking. This project with more dev time could have been much better at the same $200 price point. Collectorvision wanting to come out first and that obviously came with some sacrifices. I personally don't see why they look at those other Colecovision systems as compeition when they are only VGA out only. Last time I checked Phoenix is the only standalone FPGA based Coleco clone with HDMI out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This project with more dev time could have been much better at the same $200 price point.

 

This project with more dev time and some features that you suggested would absoultely put the cost of the system over the $200 price point and people are already complaining enough about that as it is.

 

Having spent 22 years in the video games business myself developing software and hardware, you have to look at your "Must Ship With," "Should Ship With," and "Could Ship With" lists. In my professional opinion, CollectorVision has made solid choices in what features they have developed into the system, and keep in mind there is still development happening, and perhaps you may see some more things on the "could ship with" list get implemented without impacting the cost. That always is the goal in development. That being said, "Feature Creep" only delays projects and makes them more expensive. You have to draw the line somewhere.

 

And I get it, this system may not be for you, and "that's okay." As I said before, I just hope there is enough interest to make it a reality.

 

Collectorvision wanting to come out first and that obviously came with some sacrifices.

This isn't even a factor. You're suggesting things that aren't grounded in any sort of reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK guys - you disagree at some level...

 

 

SegaSnatcher wanted more - fine - his opinion ("wish it had more - hope the project is funded" - my words)

 

TPR points out what the system is ( "don't complain about what is 'missing' - lets get this funded" - again my words)

 

 

Either way - this is a FIRST step and mistakes may happen.

 

I give high praises to CollectorVision (and all involved) in making this effort to keep this system alive.

 

 

I've backed the project - I thank SegaSnatcher for pointing out what he thinks are flaws - I thank TPR for giving an 'opposing' view.

 

 

Lets move forward and get this thing done.

 

 

Jeff31

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

This project with more dev time and some features that you suggested would absoultely put the cost of the system over the $200 price point and people are already complaining enough about that as it is.

 

Having spent 22 years in the video games business myself developing software and hardware, you have to look at your "Must Ship With," "Should Ship With," and "Could Ship With" lists. In my professional opinion, CollectorVision has made solid choices in what features they have developed into the system, and keep in mind there is still development happening, and perhaps you may see some more things on the "could ship with" list get implemented without impacting the cost. That always is the goal in development. That being said, "Feature Creep" only delays projects and makes them more expensive. You have to draw the line somewhere.

 

And I get it, this system may not be for you, and "that's okay." As I said before, I just hope there is enough interest to make it a reality.

 

This isn't even a factor. You're suggesting things that aren't grounded in any sort of reality.

 

1. Increasing the resolution should have zero impact on price since it should not require any additional hardware. We know the FPGA used is fully capable of 720p, just for whatever reason its not been implemented yet. The smart move would be to also implement the Coleco's native resolution and scale to 720p instead of relying on the F18A's 480p native output to then scale to 720p. Its not like a bunch of games support F18A anyways.

 

 

2. This was confirmed by Brian. He said they wanted to come out before the competition did.

Edited by SegaSnatcher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Increasing the resolution should have zero impact on price since it should not require any additional hardware.

 

You make the assumption that this is a feature that can just magically happen out of thin air and will require no development or anyone's time at all. There is an age-old saying "time equals money" and that is one million percent true. Something you may think is simple may be very complex. Something you may think is very inexpensive may be very costly. That being said, I will quote myself...

 

perhaps you may see some more things on the "could ship with" list get implemented

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You make the assumption that this is a feature that can just magically happen out of thin air and will require no development or anyone's time at all. There is an age-old saying "time equals money" and that is one million percent true. Something you may think is simple may be very complex. Something you may think is very inexpensive may be very costly. That being said, I will quote myself...

 

I actually said the exact opposite in my main post. Yes, more development time would be required and this should have been the goal from the start. That's my point.

 

Its not the customer's problem if people working on this project lack the necessary skills to implement some basic features like true HD output. The answer isn't, "Well if you want 720p expect to pay more." That is unacceptable when you are already asking people to pay $200 for this system.

Edited by SegaSnatcher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually said the exact opposite in my main post. Yes, more development time would be required and this should have been the goal from the start. That's my point.

I just have one question: Are you a ColecoVision fan? Do you own a ColecoVision?

 

Okay, that's two questions. :)

Edited by Pixelboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually said the exact opposite in my main post. Yes, more development time would be required and this should have been the goal from the start. That's my point.

 

I give up. I cannot argue with someone who knows absoultely nothing about video game software or hardware development. It's an insult to my more than two decades of experience in the business.

 

giphy.gif

 

 

EDIT....

 

Its not the customer's problem if people working on this project lack the necessary skills to implement some basic features like true HD output.

 

I see you edited your post just to be a complete dick, so I will do the same. That sentence right there just proves you don't have a clue what you are talking about and you are only here to create drama and this community has had enough of it. Suggesting that the team involved "lack the necessary skills" actually justifies my initial comment to you above after your original drama crusade post...

 

It is exactly posts like this that are going to help be responsible for the project not funding. But hey, you seem to know how to do this better than anyone else, so I look forward to the FPGA console you develop and crowd fund. Best of luck to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I give up. I cannot argue with someone who knows absoultely nothing about video game software or hardware development. It's an insult to my more than two decades of experience in the business.

 

 

With all due respect, you have mainly been damage controlling anytime someone brings up this system's negative aspects. Look I get it, you are friends with the Collectorvision team and want to see them succeed, I do too, but please let's not try and sweep things under the rug.

 

All I've been trying to do as someone who's already bought 3 FPGA devices is try and help this project see more success by giving out reasonable criticisms and listing things I believe could help this system succeed.

 

If you can't appreciate that then I don't know what to tell you. I'm obviously not the only one with this opinion.

 

As I said before, I see lots of potential in this system, but its just short of being what it needs to be to find success.

 

Having said all that, I wish Collectorvision the best of luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all due respect, you have mainly been damage controlling anytime someone brings up this system's negative aspects.

 

If having a positive attitude is wrong, then I don't want to be right.

 

It disappoints me to think how much more successful this campaign could have been without all the unnecessary drama. This is one of those examples where there is literally NO NEED for any drama at all surrounding this project. But thanks to our ever devolving humanity with the drama and the negativity that so many people seem to thrive from, we've seen erroneous comment after comment that actually have more impact on the final outcome of the campaign than people think. And that is a VERY REAL scenario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just have one question: Are you a ColecoVision fan? Do you own a ColecoVision?

 

Okay, that's two questions. :)

I have nothing but love for the Colecovision. My experience with Colecovision is with PC Emulation and playing on my Brother's real system a few times. I've never owned a legit system myself, but always wanted to and was a big reason this project got my interest in the first place. I actually waited on buying a real unit in hopes this would be something I wanted for HDTV use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually waited on buying a real unit in hopes this would be something I wanted for HDTV use.

 

I don't even understand comments like this. I currently have it plugged into a 48" HDTV and it looks absoultely fantastic.

 

Look, the best I can do to satisfy your concern is compare the CollectorVision Phoenix and the Nt Mini. To be honest they BOTH look great. And if you just want to play the legacy games and the homebrew ROMs that have been released, then play on the Nt Mini. But if you want to play your original cartridges, and have a system that has been tailor made for the ColecoVision Fan, then by all means help us make the Phoenix happen.

 

The F18a chip has been around long enough that is has quite a bit of respect from this community and absoultely enhances the look and quality of even standard ColecoVision games. And that is not me doing "damage control" that is me just being 100% supportive of this project since I've been using an F18a modded ColecoVision for the past 3 years now and I would love to see it be made more readily available to people without having to crack open their 1982 system and do a fairly complex modding job.

 

Maybe I'm just "content" knowing that the Phoenix is an "all in one" version of my daily use ColecoVision and I know that system with all the mods I've put into it is about $400 so I look at the Phoenix at $199, even $299 as an absolute "no brainer." It's plug and play and it does everything I need it to do, and I'm perfectly happy with that.

 

Here's what Donkey Kong looks like paying via the Nt Mini...

donkey kong mini nt.jpg

 

Here's what Donkey Kong looks like paying via the CollectorVision Phoenix...

Donkey Kong Phoenix.jpg

 

Those photos have not been altered in any way other than to reduce the size of the photo.

 

I hear you complaining endlessly about the video output and I just don't get it. But maybe the difference here is I'm looking at the system on my screen and you are not. And maybe if you were looking at it on your screen, your complaints and suggestions would go away. I don't know. But this is the best I can do to help convince you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am clearly wasting my time here. I should have listened to myself earlier when I said "I'm done."

He's asking legit questions though. I'm a backer since day 1 and I've been waiting for a direct capture since then. I want to be able to gauge the quality of the 480p picture, as I have a 4k set. I've also been wondering why the audio is turned down, why we haven't seen a regular SNES controller used, expansion port being used. As a backer, I would like a more concrete picture of what I'm supporting.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727AZ using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how questioning the viability of the project could possibly "be responsible for the project not funding." That's Mike Kennedy territory right there. Do better. Be better.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's asking legit questions though. I'm a backer since day 1 and I've been waiting for a direct capture since then. I want to be able to gauge the quality of the 480p picture, as I have a 4k set. I've also been wondering why the audio is turned down, why we haven't seen a regular SNES controller used, expansion port being used. As a backer, I would like a more concrete picture of what I'm supporting.

 

I want to make something perfectly clear.

 

I do not work for CollectorVision nor do I have any stake in this project whatsoever other than me wanting to see this project get in other peoples hands because I ABSOULTELY F**KING BELIEVE IN IT!!!

I am volunteering my time and money to help spread the word about this project and I am asking for absoultely NOTHING in return.

 

Is that clear? Yes? Good.

 

Ok, that being said on to these questions...

 

1. Why hasn't there been any direct capture?

 

Because I personally thought direct capture was pointless as it just looks like an F18a ColecoVision and that is easy to fake. I wanted to show me playing the actual system. I don't think I need to explain why as we've already seen plenty of people claiming that this thing isn't real. It's real. I just wanted to prove it.

 

Also, the video capture seems to stretch the screen out and that's not exactly a good representation of the console. But I went ahead and captured some video anyway. Enjoy...

 

I did picture in picture so you can see this was actual real footage coming out of the Phoenix.

 

2. Why was the volume turned down?

 

Because that little TV I have on my desk sucks. Here's a video showing the console off on a better TV:

 

3. Why haven't we seen a regular SNES controller being used?

 

The version I have is a prototype. It's not done yet. And there is a bug in it that a regular SNES controller doesn't work but the Data NTT controller does. I know that is on Brian's to do list. Don't worry, it will get done.

 

4. Why isn't the expansion port being used?

 

I honestly don't know how to use it or what it is currently used for! That's a Brian question. I'm sure he can answer.

 

Seriously, those are all my reasons why I've been doing the videos the way I have been. I wanted to show off the console being played for real. And I felt just setting up a simple camera on a tripod was the best way to show that the system is real. I'm not hiding anything, I don't have anything to lose or gain by this Kickstarter funding or failing.

 

I'm just here to help.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how questioning the viability of the project could possibly "be responsible for the project not funding." That's Mike Kennedy territory right there. Do better. Be better.

 

Seriously F**K OFF with this Mike Kennedy crap. I'm sick of hearing it. This system is as real as it gets. Comments like this don't help the campaign and it just shows that people want drama. Stop being a$$holes and start HELPING THE CAMPAIGN if you're actually interested in this console.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for the record, I finished contacting all the people in my e-mail records just now. It was quite a job, but it was worth it. :)

 

Positive efforts like this that help the campaign are greatly appreciated. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If having a positive attitude is wrong, then I don't want to be right.

 

It disappoints me to think how much more successful this campaign could have been without all the unnecessary drama. This is one of those examples where there is literally NO NEED for any drama at all surrounding this project. But thanks to our ever devolving humanity with the drama and the negativity that so many people seem to thrive from, we've seen erroneous comment after comment that actually have more impact on the final outcome of the campaign than people think. And that is a VERY REAL scenario.

 

 

My question is, if he wanted to help the campaign, why bring up all this stuff the console "should have been" in his fantasy world in the middle of the kickstarter when it wouldn't help, instead of after it was over. He doesn't want to help, he just wants to gripe and pretend he wants to help or he would have done it in a more productive manner. I think he secretly just wants to push how great the NES/SNES FPGA clones are.

Also, I really don't think a 50% improvement in resolution is as big deal for native 240 games as the improvements by the F18A. I just don't think he's experienced it.

And as far as expecting it to compete with NES/SNES FPGA in price, he's just dreaming and doesn't want to come off of his cloud. You just do it, you just do it, duhhhh. What, by making it lower quality in build maybe. A product that sells 1000 units is not going to be able to compete in price with something that sells 10's of thousands of units. If he can't understand that, he doesn't understand anything at all about what's going on.

"You should never argue with a crazy mind" - Billy Joel

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he secretly just wants to push how great the NES/SNES FPGA clones are.

 

giphy.gif

 

THIS! I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who felt his motives were completely transparent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

My question is, if they he wanted to help the campaign, why bring up all this stuff the console "should have been" in his fantasy world after the kickstarter was over instead of in the middle of it when it wouldn't help. He doesn't want to help, he just wants to gripe and pretend he wants to help or he would have done it in a more productive manner. I think he secretly just wants to push how great the NES/SNES FPGA clones are.

Also, I really don't think a 50% improvement in resolution is as big deal for native 240 games as the improvements by the F18A. I just don't think he's experienced it.

And as far as expecting it to compete with NES/SNES FPGA in price, he's just dreaming and doesn't want to come off of his cloud. You just do it, you just do it, duhhhh. What, by making it lower quality in build maybe. A product that sells 1000 units is not going to be able to compete in price with something that sells 10's of thousands of units. If he can't understand that, he doesn't understand anything at all about what's going on.

"You should never argue with a crazy man" - Billy Joel

I brought up what I considered flaws well before the kickstarter launched. I told them multiple times they should at least implement 720p before continuing on because I truly believe it would be an issue for a lot of people. This wasn't just brought up recently.

 

And as a proud owner of AVS, Super NT and soon Mega SG you're darn right I'm going to speak highly of them, because they are currently the gold standard of FPGA devices. There is nothing wrong with comparison, its perfectly reasonable. As I said before, 4 yrs ago this project would have likely got fully funded, but people have certain expectations now and you just can't get away with selling an FPGA system at the same price as others and not offering similar features like HD output. I'm sorry if that bothers you but its just the way it is. Its really the pricinpal of the idea, even if 480p is perfectly playable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...