Sony: "new hardware is needed," Microsoft: "Project XCloud"

[Osgeld]

2- and this is the big one- despite the annoying downloads, if I buy a PS4 game, and I put it in a PS4, it's going to work. I don't have to worry that my vid card has the wrong driver, or my sound board is below spec, or my CPU needs an upgrade. I don't have to wonder if that glitch is the game being broken or my computer having a single part out of sync with the game's expectations. I know that if I have a PS4, any PS4, I can play any PS4 disc.

 

yea but this is a thing that's not really been a problem for several years now to a point

 

I mean I know I am going to play games on my computer, its one of its primary functions so I am not going to go out and get a walmart special and then act surprised when the latest game doesnt run, which is what I tend to hear from people ... not only on the internet, but in real life

 

I got a modestly cheap machine that had some balls behind it and a good graphics card for ~500 bucks in 2013 and its still running brand new games at 1080p just fine, now where the older XBoX 360 era games I could max out all the options, nowdays I have to settle for all but the ultra settings but its still going strong. The computer before that still runs modern games just fine but ya know at 720p and maybe not as many bells and whistles but its from freaking 2008, but again its not a HP I bought at big box featuring intel graphics and a celeron either

 

Also on your last point nintendo and its habit of naming 50 different consoles the same name with some qualifier, somewhat with the gameboy models when they brought out the advance (before then any gameboy game could be ran on any gameboy) somewhat with the wii / wiiU and the absolute cluster fk of the DS line where a DS wont play new DS games ... ugh

Edited October 18, 2018 by Osgeld

[+wongojack]

 

yea but this is a thing that's not really been a problem for several years now to a point

 

I mean I know I am going to play games on my computer, its one of its primary functions so I am not going to go out and get a walmart special and then act surprised when the latest game doesnt run, which is what I tend to hear from people ... not only on the internet, but in real life

 

I got a modestly cheap machine that had some balls behind it and a good graphics card for ~500 bucks in 2013 and its still running brand new games at 1080p just fine, now where the older XBoX 360 era games I could max out all the options, nowdays I have to settle for all but the ultra settings but its still going strong. The computer before that still runs modern games just fine but ya know at 720p and maybe not as many bells and whistles but its from freaking 2008, but again its not a HP I bought at big box featuring intel graphics and a celeron either

 

Also on your last point nintendo and its habit of naming 50 different consoles the same name with some qualifier, somewhat with the gameboy models when they brought out the advance (before then any gameboy game could be ran on any gameboy) somewhat with the wii / wiiU and the absolute cluster fk of the DS line where a DS wont play new DS games ... ugh

 

I get your point on this. Things used to be MUCH more difficult, but the experience is still different on PC. For example, if you go and buy Rogue Squadron on GoG, you may need to do several things to get it to run on your computer. However, if a classic game is offered in the Sony or MS store it is going to work (once it downloads) without any configuration.

 

I've also experienced a deterioration of my ability to play games on my laptop from 2011 not because the specs are dramatically out of date, but because the underlying gaming engines get updated that introduce problems with older hardware. So, a little indie game works fine for years until the Unity engine gets updated and auto updates on Steam push it to all Unity games.

 

In addition to those examples, there are non-retro PC games that run much better with specific graphics card profiles and other customizations in place. To even find out about these requires a time investment and knowledge about how to adjust such configurations.

[HoshiChiri]

 

yea but this is a thing that's not really been a problem for several years now to a point

 

I mean I know I am going to play games on my computer, its one of its primary functions so I am not going to go out and get a walmart special and then act surprised when the latest game doesnt run, which is what I tend to hear from people ... not only on the internet, but in real life

 

I got a modestly cheap machine that had some balls behind it and a good graphics card for ~500 bucks in 2013 and its still running brand new games at 1080p just fine, now where the older XBoX 360 era games I could max out all the options, nowdays I have to settle for all but the ultra settings but its still going strong. The computer before that still runs modern games just fine but ya know at 720p and maybe not as many bells and whistles but its from freaking 2008, but again its not a HP I bought at big box featuring intel graphics and a celeron either

 

Also on your last point nintendo and its habit of naming 50 different consoles the same name with some qualifier, somewhat with the gameboy models when they brought out the advance (before then any gameboy game could be ran on any gameboy) somewhat with the wii / wiiU and the absolute cluster fk of the DS line where a DS wont play new DS games ... ugh

 

Of course people are surprised when their new computer doesn't play new games- they don't know what the specs are, or what they mean. I follow people talking about this stuff all the time, and I don't know what my machine can run! I know it has 'Nividia Geforce', becuase there's a sticker that says that on here. I have no damn idea what that is- I think it has something to do with graphics, but I'm not sure. I definitely don't know how it relates to other things in terms of what it's better or worse than.

 

If you're not already familiar with computer parts & terms, there's a HUGE learning curve for even being able to try and find out what you'll need. For many, consoles are simply easier- you still have to go through all the patches, downloads, installs, and upgrades, but at least you know what games it'll play.

 

I did forget about the New Nintendo 3DS nubbin' preventing certain games from running on older handhelds without a circle pad pro- but quite frankly? There is a reason Nintendo was sliding downhill up until the Switch yanked them back up. (I don't think the Gameboys ever confused anyone, though.)

[Osgeld]

I get that and there's nothing wrong with it, but its a bit of a strawman to say that one doesnt want to worry about having to upgrade their graphics card to play a game, but not even try to look to see what they have

 

if one does not want to deal with pc gaming, they dont have to make up thin excuses to not deal with it

 

I am not (really) singling you out but it its one of those things like if I said I want transportation but I would not use a motorcycle cause they are hard to start and drip oil everywhere, that's not really the reason, its really that I just dont give a shit about riding a motorcycle and I am not going to come up with reasons to justify that

Edited October 19, 2018 by Osgeld

[+wongojack]

Glossing over all the differences between purchasing and configuring a PC compared to a game console is the straw man in this thread.

 

Just go try to pick a computer on Amazon that you are sure will play the latest Assassin's Creed game. You know that experience is totally different for a consumer than choosing one of 2 (or 3) game consoles that you know for sure will play it. All 3 consoles are probably cheaper than the top 5 computer options too - provided you could even verify definitively that those computers would play the game.

[Osgeld]

https://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-Desktop-Computer-690-0010/dp/B07BHXTGS8/ref=sr_1_10?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1539908836&sr=1-10&keywords=gaming+pc

 

is it the best gaming pc ever? no ... it will play ass creep origins just fine, the system requirements recommend my 2013 machine

Edited October 19, 2018 by Osgeld

[+wongojack]

You get the point - In order to be sure, you'd have to spend time researching the system requirements. I have no idea if that computer will play Assassin's Creed Origins, and I work for a major software company. In the meantime, I could just buy an Xbox One S for half the price.

[Osgeld]

I have no idea if that computer will play Assassin's Creed Origins and I work for a major software company

 

explains why software is so bloated and wasteful these days

 

again I am not faulting anyone for not being interested in gaming on pc, but its really not that friggin difficult if someone wants to and actually is interested in it again if you are not, I dont care have fun on your new xbox one 4 pro s ds light 3ds switch whatever

Edited October 19, 2018 by Osgeld

[+wongojack]

HA - no for that to be true, I'd actually have to rise above "incompetent cog in the machine." I think I'll just go watch the Wizard of Oz now and enjoy the straw man since I guess that's all I can comprehend.

 

 

 

Editing after your edit - Are you sure you don't care? I simply chose to engage with you on your claim that gaming on a PC has "not really been a problem for several years now," and your last post was less than constructive. I disagree, and I thought I was being polite in disagreeing.

[Rocket Man]

I'll stop supporting when the physical releases dry up. I have plenty for life.

[Osgeld]

Editing after your edit - Are you sure you don't care? I simply chose to engage with you on your claim that gaming on a PC has "not really been a problem for several years now," and your last post was less than constructive. I disagree, and I thought I was being polite in disagreeing.

 

im just saying if pc gaming is not for you or anyone else, that is perfectly fine, what irks me is the excuses, yet another example, I cant ever get into golf cause the pants look stupid

 

its not really the pants looking stupid, is it? and that is fine but its an outdated cliche that makes everyone's eyes roll when its uttered (I actually do like golf for the record)

 

its ok to not like things, people dont have to defend their choices with outdated grampa simpson quotes

 

back to your first interaction you told me to pick a computer on amazon that would play generic game, so I spent the exactly 8 seconds reading the system spec's telling me the recommended system is from 5 years ago and plopped the cheapest one in the first 5 amazon listings

 

sorry if you felt this was a personal attack, it really was not

Edited October 19, 2018 by Osgeld

[Video]

My biggest thing on computers was lack of decent controllers. Once Xbox controllers became more of less compatible (games still have to support a stick in addition to mouse, most now do) this wasn't an issue. Yeah but keyboards and mice are better, and that's what computers use. Well, you young whippersnapper, my computer gaming predates that, keyboards were for settings and options, while games were played with a controller. All Atari and Commodore computers use them for example.

 

Eh, whatever. I still like owning and trading stuff, by the time computers got real controllers (again) basically physical games were no longer around.

 

Anyhow, with all the drm and I assume physical going away, (next gen, or now if you count Xbox one) I won't really have a reason for dedicated games consoles, but till then, I'll stick with consoles.

[Flojomojo]

PC gaming has never been cheaper or easier than it is right now. All one really needs to do is go to Newegg.com and choose a well-rated "gaming PC," or go to Costco and pick something with a dedicated graphics card. If you already have the computer, clicking on Can My PC Run It isn't difficult. Yes, it's two steps instead of just buying the console version, but the rewards in terms of resolution, customization, and being able to play in different places make up for it.

 

Like Osgeld says, if that's a barrier, that's fine, but I believe that anyone with the wherewithal to remember a password and get onto AtariAge is probably capable of managing a computer for gaming.

 

Whether you want to sit at a desk instead of on the comfy couch with a controller is another matter entirely. I used to prefer consoles for games for ergonomic reasons (I work at a desk all day, why should games feel like work?) but now that my distance vision has started to suck out loud, I prefer the visuals of a close-up computer monitor. I guess I could put my console on a monitor. It certainly makes the short controller cords on the NES Classic Mini more tolerable.

[HoshiChiri]

I don't feel singled out, I assure you- I'm just trying to articulate just how little sense this truly makes to those outside the PC world. You're all assuming anyone who's new can just go read some specs & figure things out. But- we don't know what the specs mean! This goes beyond just learning what is & isn't available in modern machines, it's learning a whole new language to decipher what you're even looking at to begin with!

 

https://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-Desktop-Computer-690-0010/dp/B07BHXTGS8/ref=sr_1_10?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1539908836&sr=1-10&keywords=gaming+pc

 

is it the best gaming pc ever? no ... it will play ass creep origins just fine, the system requirements recommend my 2013 machine

 

So, as an example, I clicked on this link- let me go over what I see here:

 

A Ryzen is a processor? I thought it was a brand- like, "my new computer is a Ryzen". I've learned that at least.

 

Ok, from title to description I guessed right- an 'AMD Raedon' is a graphics card. I don't know if that's better or worse than a 'Nvidia Geforce' (I still don't know if that's my computer's graphics card or not). What the HELL is 4 GB GDDR5? My only interpretation of that is some sort of Grand Dance Dance Revolution expansion, and that's clearly wrong.

 

So, RAM is Random Access Memory. I don't know why this RAM is SD (like the memory card, or the short Gundams?) I have no idea what any of the preceding letters & numbers mean (more Dance Dance Revolution?), or if 8GB of it is good or bad... more is good, right?

 

Ooo! 1 TB 7200 RPM SATA... I know what his means, it's a high speed 1 terabyte hard drive formatted to SATA standard. I don't know what SATA standard is, just that some things need that specifically over other standards like FAT32, which is what I need for my 360 to read USB sticks. (I had to do a manual update the other day.)

 

Is a Base-T Network in metric? That's the only reason I know for that string of divisible by 10 numbers there.

 

Is a DisplayPort where you plug in the monitor?

 

USB has too many standards, I would just be moving things from plug to plug until they work. Nice to see they're all accounted for though. And the picture tells me it has a disc drive, that's a big plus in my book.

_________________________________

 

It's worth pointing out at this point that I'm the most tech-savvy person in my immediate family (maybe second, I haven't seen my brother's computer in awhile). I had to teach my mom how to double-click, and my dad that if a window pops up and says he has a virus, don't click on the 'clean your computer' button (multiple times, acutally.) On the other side, over in my fiancé's sister had to tell their dad there is no 'any' key a couple weeks after he deleted Windows from the computer to save space (I think it took 2 or 3 days to get that fixed.) I can't imagine any of these people being able to pick out their own everyday PC, let alone a gaming one.

 

Sure, I can let someone else pick the computer for me. In fact, I kinda did- my fiancé bought this one after learning my only criteria were 'not black' and 'has a disc drive'. It doesn't mean I know how to make things run on it, though- I'm assuming that 'Can my PC run it' site will just check specs, not help with configuration. (Didn't know that site existed, by the way- that's probably really handy!)

 

There's a fear factor involved too- even $500 is a sizeable investment on my income (several months of saving, certainly)- and I'm fairly certain my current laptop cost twice that. The LAST thing I want to do is call my fiancé and tell him I downloaded a game, something went wrong, and now the laptop doesn't work. And considering I struggle just to find where to click to extract a zip file, I'm not risking it for a game I can buy on a console that will guide my dumb butt through the patching process, then launch it for me.

 

I'm sure someday soon console will cross the line & I'll have to learn PC... that's just going to involve a lot of YouTube videos and research to make sure I know what I'm doing. Then I'll find out why computers care so much about dancing games.

[Flojomojo]

It just takes a minimum of caring or curiosity to buy a PC magazine (they go over this stuff EVERY single month) or a quick web search to find something like this

https://lifehacker.com/5826509/how-to-build-a-computer-from-scratch-lesson-1-hardware-basics

 

If someone isn't willing to put in the bare minimum of this kind of "work" it's unlikely they'd find their way out of the first level of a modern computer game, which assumes a certain level of engagement. Like, the X button the controller is the button with the big X on it level of engagement.

 

Sorry if I come off as an elitist asshole, but this stuff isn't that hard. One doesn't even need to know what to do, because help is out there. If you are reading the words I type, you can find the information too.

 

Such as https://www.reddit.com/r/SuggestALaptop/

[+wongojack]

I agree that PC gaming is easier than ever, but I'm still with Hoshi in that I think you are underestimating what it takes to configure and maintain a computer. I tried to add credibility to my opinion earlier unsuccessfully so this time I will say that I've built and re-assembled dozens of PCs in my lifetime. I know what the basic elements of hardware are, and I'm comfortable selecting and assembling them. The thing is that I don't constantly shop for computer hardware, so I don't have all the numbers memorized. Will a game specc'd for the Radeon 5890 run on the GeForce Quadro 960M? If you know that off the top of your head, good for you, but I have to look at a comparison chart. I usually have to look up what card I actually have too depending on which computer I'm researching. I'm aware of utilities like Can My PC Run It, but the last time I checked, it required an install and I found that annoying.

 

Even after I do look it up, I might find that when I'm starting the game, I still have to make adjustments on the in-game menus. This requires me to understand things like VSync and Anti-aliasing. That is if the game even lets you adjust those settings. Sometimes you have to go into your graphics card software (if you installed it) and make the adjustments there. I've spent hours of my life over N years messing with these settings. I'm even picking the easy ones to talk about here. Over the years, I've had to adjust things like Pre-Rendered Frames and Triple Buffering. I've had to add startup switches to force legacy graphics modes, and I've had to install graphics drivers released after the lifecycle of my card (I'm sticking to recent Windows examples here). Sometimes this was for "current-gen" software, but usually it was for something that was older or didn't require even half the resources my computer had available. The time messing with this stuff has decreased dramatically in recent years, but it is still a drastically different experience than just waiting for a game to install on a console. Sure, someone can take the time to educate herself. She'll enjoy the convenience of playing games on a computer she also uses for productivity. She might save money buying games and owning fewer devices, but it will cost additional time and frustration. I just don't see that value comparison winning over enough consumers to somehow eliminate the existence of game consoles. If anything consumers are getting even lazier.

 

The reality for me is that I am not THAT budget constrained. I will always have my own current-gen computer. My wife will also have hers. When these computers start to show their age, I can buy a new computer that I want (which will likely be more than $800) or I can wait for the right sale and use some Amazon gift cards to end up getting a new console on sale for like $150. It will come with a controller and probably at least one game. I will still buy the computer down the line, but frankly the $150 seems too good to pass up, and now I'm not motivated by gaming in regards to my computing purchase. I can prioritize something else like portability. This is what will probably happen for me in the next generation too. Something will be released on these consoles, and I'll find a sale and pull the trigger. I'll also keep playing games on my computer (and my entire retro-stash too). I don't see any need to declare myself finished with console gaming. Why would I when it makes things so convenient.

[Osgeld]

as someone who lives like I don't make any money spending a little bit of time researching is well worth saving 150$ on a console when I could have a machine that does both work and play.

That's just me though

 

To top it off consoles have fought hard and strong, but even in the ps1 era you started seeing system requirements on back of boxes (oh you need a dual shock and 8 blocks of storage) and its progressed since then, even as we speak there's PS4 Pro enhanced games, sure you can play them on a standard PS4, but its at half the quality, so a PS4 game may not look or perform as expected just cause its a PS4 game. I dont see how that's any different, even a lot of value brand walmart computer will play all the latest games, but that is unacceptable?

 

As far as configuration of a computer for gaming, it takes effort and reading yes I will give you that, as far as maintaining a computer, FFS I have done nothing but abuse the ever living crap out of mine and its been going on a 4 year old windows 10 install and bench marking higher than ever. The only maintenance I ever do is updates (windows and drivers for the video card, all automated) and blow out the dust every once in a while ... which you should be doing with a console that has a fan in it anyway.

 

The 2008 computer in my garage has been running almost 24/7 outside of power outages since 2015 and its a pile of junk set up to be disposable when I am trying to do something stupid ... what the heck are you guys doing, visiting sketchy porn-n-wares.com, while turning off windows update, running XP and a router found at goodwill using the settings it came with???

Edited October 20, 2018 by Osgeld

[godslabrat]

I'm so glad this thread shifted to discussing PCs vs consoles. This discussion has never been had before in the entire history of the internet.

[Osgeld]

well its turned more into "stuff is hard so screw it"

 

the original message of the thread is the nintendo DS syndrome, we got people hooked on now 2 generations of consoles with the same name, now here's where we go from there, I never have once said PC is the master race and you pleebs need to die off. I say if consoles make you happy then you use consoles

 

BUTTTTTT, instead we get "I dont know if my mouse is compatible with assassin's creed, its just too hard", fine whatever buy a console

 

well guess what buttercup ... just cause it says xbox or playstation on the front doesnt mean its xbox or playstation compatible

 

see og xbox vs 360 vs xbone, or every playstation ever, in the past they made clear distinctions, now its xbone pro 4 + new blah blah blah and in the future its not going to get better

[+wongojack]

If we want to go all the way back to the original post, I don't really get why those 2 articles are the ones that would put someone finally off of console gaming. I read them, and they seem pretty much like the same status quo we've had for years now. For me, I think that the next gen will offer the same benefits and drawbacks that console gaming has always offered. I won't be jumping at the chance to buy one on release day, but eventually I think the benefits will motivate me enough to probably buy 2 or even 3 of the next gen.

[HoshiChiri]

well its turned more into "stuff is hard so screw it"

 

the original message of the thread is the nintendo DS syndrome, we got people hooked on now 2 generations of consoles with the same name, now here's where we go from there, I never have once said PC is the master race and you pleebs need to die off. I say if consoles make you happy then you use consoles

 

BUTTTTTT, instead we get "I dont know if my mouse is compatible with assassin's creed, its just too hard", fine whatever buy a console

 

well guess what buttercup ... just cause it says xbox or playstation on the front doesnt mean its xbox or playstation compatible

 

see og xbox vs 360 vs xbone, or every playstation ever, in the past they made clear distinctions, now its xbone pro 4 + new blah blah blah and in the future its not going to get better

 

Well this is just unnecessarily hostile- no one's accused anyone of playing the PC Master Race card- although you are going out of your way to call anyone who thinks computers are complicated 'lazy buttercups'.

 

It's something I ascribe to 'expert blindess'... when we know how something works & have done it a long time, we can forget how daunting it is for a newcomer. I've worked retail for 15 years, and this is the time of year we bring in the seasonal hires- often teens working their first job, who absolutely panic over the idea of answering the phone, being at the register alone, getting clothes put away... not becuase these things are hard specifically, but they have no frame of reference for doing them & they don't want to lose their job over a mistake. Despite my best efforts, there's always one seemingly obvious thing I catch someone missing- like entering exact amounts for cash & then using a calculator or pen & paper to make change. Then I get to come explain 'oh- you just put in the amount you were given, and the register tells you the change due'.

 

Quite simply, I'm afraid to much with my laptop outside of basic file management & using a web browser. I can't afford to replace it if I somehow damage it. I don't need help buying a machine, I need help understanding it & using it. Yes, I could spend my limited time away from work trying to find resources & studying- or, I can just play games on my consoles, which don't require me to understand their insides. It's all basically file management for saves & hitting the 'launch game' icon.

 

I know consoles aren't going to get easier to use, and someday they will require knowing the internals to get certain games working. And that's when I'll get online, find those resources, and start learning. If that makes me lazy, fine- I guess I'm lazy. But at least I'm having fun playing a game.

[Austin]

I agree that PC gaming is easier now than it has ever been, but it's still far from fool-proof. Effort is required to get the most out of it and not everyone wants that.

 

There's also the matter of cost. You're not going to get a $500 PC that can play DOOM 2016 like the Xbox One X can. If you want a rig that won't be dated in the next year or two, you are going to need to shell out some good money.

[Osgeld]

I agree that PC gaming is easier now than it has ever been, but it's still far from fool-proof. Effort is required to get the most out of it and not everyone wants that.

 

There's also the matter of cost. You're not going to get a $500 PC that can play DOOM 2016 like the Xbox One X can. If you want a rig that won't be dated in the next year or two, you are going to need to shell out some good money.

 

ya know screw it, the xbox one has less horsepower than the ataribox but its god I give up

 

 

and for the record I have not spent a cent since 2013 on my machine and it runs doom 2016 at over my 75hz monitors refresh rate at a honest to god 1080p at a higher quality than the xbox one x pro 4 3ds 720p upscaled malarkey ... and it cost about the same as a OG xbox one back in the day

 

+ I can do spreadsheets and troll forums

Edited October 22, 2018 by Osgeld

[Austin]

and for the record I have not spent a cent since 2013 on my machine and it runs doom 2016 at over my 75hz monitors refresh rate at a honest to god 1080p at a higher quality than the xbox one x pro 4 3ds 720p upscaled malarkey ... and it cost about the same as a OG xbox one back in the day

Sure, whatever you say, man.

 

Edit: On the other hand, it's not impossible, but the point is, a rig that holds up that well five years later wasn't cheap when it was built.

 

Edit #2: Also, you're showing yourself to be a bit of a dick. How about a little normal, logical, friendly conversation? I sit in both camps on this one, personally (I built a current Ryzen 7 based system last year.. but it wasn't cheap. At all).

Edited October 22, 2018 by Austin

[Flojomojo]

Austin, that system will probably last you a long time too -- the upgrade cycle has slowed down considerably and a 5yo machine is "good enough" for most midrange games, especially the types that will run on a console. That's what I have and it's nice that it can do other things too.

 

Osgeld adds some dick texture to the conversation.