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Why do people actively hate "pre-NES" consoles?

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*Note this opinion is presented here but not aimed at anyone;   Just a general statement.

 

 

I think the Problem is not that anyone has to like anything or hate anything for that matter...The problem is that in this CyberWorld we call the Internet there are still folks who don't know the difference between OPINION and FACT.

 

Someone will say this system is horrible or weak...Usually as someone else somewhere in the world sits down to it and can't stop playing it.

 

 

 

 

As long as you know the difference between opinion and fact;   And don't try to present your opinion as fact,  We'll get along just fine  :)

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yeah - but in many cases they were the best/closest to the arcade versions of of those games we had seen to that point.

 

The 2600 was weak, but it was also old at that point. The 5200 and CV arcade ports were just...weak. 7800 era arcade ports were pretty great (excluding the sound on some games).

 

and the 7800 was backwards compatible, so I didn't have to just toss all those old games aside.

 

Not knocking Shinobi on the Master System but I really wish that it had been ported to the Genesis. Same with Rastan. Rastan Saga Part II was such a disappointment at the time.

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No, it's not "moving goalposts", instead it's just showing your fallacious logic for what it is.  "The 2600 has not aged as well as NES" is your subjective - not objective - opinion. And anybody else is equally entitled to saying that NES (or X system of their choice) has not aged well and playing it is a waste of time, because later system Y is where it's at.

 

Funnily enough, I've just read precisely that earlier on today :)

 

Switch Online proves, once again, that NES games aren’t that good

 

And some comments below on n4g:

 

 

Sounds familiar? But okay, I'm sure these people are just some irrelevant  guys from the internet, and it's your opinion that really matters :)

 

With that, I'll say my good-bys, I see where this thread is going and it's about as much fun as playing a pre-chess game (whatever that was).

So are you telling me you actually believe 2600 games have aged just as well as NES games?   Look, the Atari 2600 was my first console I ever owned, so this isn't just me being nostalgic for NES.  Objectively speaking the visuals are of much lower quality than even the most basic NES games let alone the best NES has to offer.  Most importantly there is way more depth to be found in NES games where as 2600 gameplay is much more "simple" in comparison.  

Now does this all mean I think 2600 sucks, no, I'm just being realistic here.   There are still fun experiences to be found in Atari 2600 games, but its just not a console you sit down and play for hours like you can with NES.

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We've had this conversation so many times on AtariAge . . . I still can't really resist posting.

 

Some things that stood out from me reading this thread

 

  1. I'm not aware of anyone hating any era of gaming more than another.  That just seems like a case of where you spend your time and who you listen to.
  2. The NES made me frustrated - Just a general feeling I associate with it.  The games were hard, expensive, and if you got a crappy one, you felt ripped off.  The good ones were pretty great though.
  3. I don't really like "discovering secrets" in games, and I figured that out in the NES era.  Unlocking someone's initials is one thing, but not revealing the game's continue feature seems like the designers hate the player.  I don't like being hated.
  4. "The NES appeals to kids" thing was real for me.  I just preferred computer games as they seemed more for adults.  Even Castlevania felt childish.  I don't think the Engrish helped.

 

On the question of which console has aged better:

I'm not judging it based on visuals, but gameplay (not that NES visuals are all that great today).  I personally think that Atari 2600 games have aged very well in comparison to the NES, but it might be because a lot of the great NES games have had sequels that have done incredible things with their particular franchise.  The original Zelda usually gets some negative mentions because it compares so closely to the SNES edition of the franchise for example.  There's no such comparison for Atari games.  I also just like the repetition of the arcade style games on the Atari.  To get it out feels like an easy time to play some great oldies, with the NES I have to sort of gear myself up and be ready for a little frustration, so I often find myself playing those repetitive arcade style games when I get my NES out now.

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...  The NES at least, you have a breakthrough into the next level, and it also allowed in hardware to do more stuff like scrolling of the screen, better audio, more gameplay options, more genres.  There was this new level of versatility beyond just trying to copy the basic arcade style of games of the early 80s and late 70s.

Some facts. Prior to the NES there were video game systems with multidirectional hardware scrolling, sound processors capable of rich music, diverse game genres including action-adventure, RPG, simulations, realtime strategy, and games with winnable endings. Edited by mr_me

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Have you ever finished SMS Shinobi by chance?  I missed the rapid fire shurikens from the arcade, but I thought it was a fun game in its own right.. . However ALL good feelings about it went out the window when I finished it after slaving for months.. I'm still pissed about it decades later. :P

 

See THAT'S another thing that the NES got right.. good endings when "endings" were a cool, new & novel thing we were looking for! :lol:

 

(pssst.. SMS Shinobi had none).

I did. I really didn't care about not getting an "ending". But yes - I did finish it.

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Not knocking Shinobi on the Master System but I really wish that it had been ported to the Genesis. Same with Rastan. Rastan Saga Part II was such a disappointment at the time.

totally agree. I wish there was a good port of it to any later system. (besides MAME)

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*Note this opinion is presented here but not aimed at anyone;   Just a general statement.

 

 

I think the Problem is not that anyone has to like anything or hate anything for that matter...The problem is that in this CyberWorld we call the Internet there are still folks who don't know the difference between OPINION and FACT.

 

Someone will say this system is horrible or weak...Usually as someone else somewhere in the world sits down to it and can't stop playing it.

 

 

 

 

As long as you know the difference between opinion and fact;   And don't try to present your opinion as fact,  We'll get along just fine  :)

I think the major issue with what you describe is when someone presents what is OBVIOUSLY an opinion, and another person assumes that person is claiming it as a FACT when, no such claim is made.

 

People who constantly harp on "but you didn't qualify your statement as opinion" are like the grammar nazis of conversational nuance. IF I have to qualify everything I feel and think to whomever is listening at all times, so as not to offend someone's alternate tastes, it loses all the delicious cynicism and eye-catching hyperbole. I realize not everyone is a sports fan - but for those who are, you might know what I mean when I say that trash talking your opponent is one of the best parts of fandom. And I don't mean personally insulting people and meaning it. I mean coming up with clever ways to dismiss someone's opinion because the creativity in the slight is the fun part. So much of that gets lost in the ever deepening echo chambers and snowflake castles on the internet. makes it kinda boring.

Edited by John Stamos Mullet

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 There are still fun experiences to be found in Atari 2600 games, but its just not a console you sit down and play for hours like you can with NES.

 

[attachment=599197:wrong.gif]

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We've had this conversation so many times on AtariAge . . . I still can't really resist posting.

 

Some things that stood out from me reading this thread

 

  1. I'm not aware of anyone hating any era of gaming more than another.  That just seems like a case of where you spend your time and who you listen to.
  2. The NES made me frustrated - Just a general feeling I associate with it.  The games were hard, expensive, and if you got a crappy one, you felt ripped off.  The good ones were pretty great though.
  3. I don't really like "discovering secrets" in games, and I figured that out in the NES era.  Unlocking someone's initials is one thing, but not revealing the game's continue feature seems like the designers hate the player.  I don't like being hated.
  4. "The NES appeals to kids" thing was real for me.  I just preferred computer games as they seemed more for adults.  Even Castlevania felt childish.  I don't think the Engrish helped.

 

On the question of which console has aged better:

I'm not judging it based on visuals, but gameplay (not that NES visuals are all that great today).  I personally think that Atari 2600 games have aged very well in comparison to the NES, but it might be because a lot of the great NES games have had sequels that have done incredible things with their particular franchise.  The original Zelda usually gets some negative mentions because it compares so closely to the SNES edition of the franchise for example.  There's no such comparison for Atari games.  I also just like the repetition of the arcade style games on the Atari.  To get it out feels like an easy time to play some great oldies, with the NES I have to sort of gear myself up and be ready for a little frustration, so I often find myself playing those repetitive arcade style games when I get my NES out now.

Well there is the 8 bit line of Atari computers that you can directly compare to the 2600, or the 7800.  IMHO, the 8 bit line was a pretty big advancement in every way over the 2600 and while 7800 was an improvement visually over the 8 bit line it had the same crappy audio chip found in the 2600 and a much smaller library of games when not including 2600 BC. 

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Well there is the 8 bit line of Atari computers that you can directly compare to the 2600, or the 7800.  IMHO, the 8 bit line was a pretty big advancement in every way over the 2600 and while 7800 was an improvement visually over the 8 bit line it had the same crappy audio chip found in the 2600 and a much smaller library of games when not including 2600 BC. 

 

True enough.  I was thinking more Super Mario Galaxy compared to Super Mario Bros.  The leap is so huge that the age of the older one is very obvious.

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it had the same crappy audio chip found in the 2600 and a much smaller library of games when not including 2600 BC. 

Warning: this is going to sound like trolling, but I am being completely honest:

 

Do people really care about crappy 80's videogame music? I mean, REALLY?  Even on the systems that had "better" sound chips, it's not like this stuff was "good music". It's annoying, repetitive, John Tesh/ music played through a slightly out of tune Casio mini-keyboard.

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Warning: this is going to sound like trolling, but I am being completely honest:

 

Do people really care about crappy 80's videogame music? I mean, REALLY?  Even on the systems that had "better" sound chips, it's not like this stuff was "good music". It's annoying, repetitive, John Tesh/ music played through a slightly out of tune Casio mini-keyboard.

Obviously you aren't aware of the chiptune music scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrw6eCKi0nY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L3Sa9dd8aE

Edited by SegaSnatcher

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Warning: this is going to sound like trolling, but I am being completely honest:

 

Do people really care about crappy 80's videogame music? I mean, REALLY?  Even on the systems that had "better" sound chips, it's not like this stuff was "good music". It's annoying, repetitive, John Tesh/ music played through a slightly out of tune Casio mini-keyboard.

 

Yes, I enjoy a lot of NES music.

 

I mean, does this music fit your description?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GePTCa5xIhM

 

 

Or this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjuIPvGQ4LE

 

 

Or this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypNPxwnppU0

 

 

The musical capabilities are really impressive for being a 1983 console. I get a lot of atmosphere from the best soundtracks. The bloops and bleeps on the Atari 7800 sans Pokey would ruin the experience.

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Warning: this is going to sound like trolling, but I am being completely honest:

 

Do people really care about crappy 80's videogame music? I mean, REALLY?  Even on the systems that had "better" sound chips, it's not like this stuff was "good music". It's annoying, repetitive, John Tesh/ music played through a slightly out of tune Casio mini-keyboard.

 

Yes, some people really get into it. Remixes are fun. I've seen some of these live, it's hilarious to me, but many people take it seriously. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWNnfjVfCK0

 

Other people use a GameBoy as an instrument. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFz43VTRyE4

 

I think this guy who does a capella versions of SNES music is terrific. 

 

I think "don't yuck other people's yum" applies here

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Obviously you aren't aware of the chiptune music scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrw6eCKi0nY

Oh, I'm aware of it. Just like I'm aware of cosplay conventions, and donkey shows in Tijuana, and guys who wear scene beards, man-buns and high-water pants and think they are stylish and trendy.

 

I put 'em all in the same category of people to avoid. :-)

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Oh, I'm aware of it. Just like I'm aware of cosplay conventions, and donkey shows in Tijuana, and guys who wear scene beards, man-buns and high-water pants and think they are stylish and trendy.

 

I put 'em all in the same category of people to avoid. :-)

Well you did ask if people care.   Okay if you want an example of less "dorky" examples.   Well 8-bit music on Vinyl is doing incredibly well.  

https://mondotees.com/products/castlevania-original-video-game-soundtrack-10-lp?variant=12118792405106

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Well you did ask if people care.   Okay if you want an example of less "dorky" examples.   Well 8-bit music on Vinyl is doing incredibly well.  

https://mondotees.com/products/castlevania-original-video-game-soundtrack-10-lp?variant=12118792405106

My point wasn't if people care about it's existence. My point was that in-game music is not really essential to the gameplay itself, and maybe I'm in the minority - but in general I find video game music from the pre-CD era to be highly annoying, often distracting, and in general not particularly interesting. I'm a musician. a REAL musician, not someone who pushes buttons in a sequence on a computer or console. I play several instruments. The only one of those clips above that I found remotely interesting is the kid who recreated the music from Batman with real instruments. The rest of them might as well just be dudes throwing silverware at a tile wall for all I care, because that's what chiptune music sounds like. (TO ME - for those of you who might disagree.)

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I don't mind chiptune music per-se.. what I do find funny though is seeing footage of the concerts and people dancing and/or headbanging to it. :lol: Might as well dance to the Megaman 2 soundtrack (awesome as it is)

Edited by NE146

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I don't mind chiptune music per-se.. what I do find funny though is seeing footage of the concerts and people dancing and/or headbanging to it. :lol: Might as well dance to the Megaman 2 soundtrack (awesome as it is)

 

Don't mind if I do!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFKtYCcMWT4

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I put 'em all in the same category of people to avoid. :-)

 

It's quite possible the feeling is entirely mutual, ya big Brony. 

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My point wasn't if people care about it's existence. My point was that in-game music is not really essential to the gameplay itself, and maybe I'm in the minority - but in general I find video game music from the pre-CD era to be highly annoying, often distracting, and in general not particularly interesting. I'm a musician. a REAL musician, not someone who pushes buttons in a sequence on a computer or console. I play several instruments. The only one of those clips above that I found remotely interesting is the kid who recreated the music from Batman with real instruments. The rest of them might as well just be dudes throwing silverware at a tile wall for all I care, because that's what chiptune music sounds like. (TO ME - for those of you who might disagree.)

Fair enough, but I personally find those 8 bit tunes charming and its definitely missed whenever I go back to 2600 games.  

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totally agree. I wish there was a good port of it to any later system. (besides MAME)

 

They probably didn't port it since they had Revenge of Shinobi ready to go so early on. Do wish they'd gone back and given us a "definitive" home port on Genesis though.

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