Why do people actively hate "pre-NES" consoles?

[mbd30]

Atari had practically no competition until 1981. (yeah, yeah, Intellivision - never really competed) Their whole popularity was based on "The arcade at home". Arcades were a place where teenagers and 10-12 preteens hung out and played video games. Not a lot of 4-8 year olds were hanging out in the arcades, putting their quarters on deck for "next" and smoking cigarettes listening to Queen and Cheap Trick.

 

The whole point of his post was that "Nintendo" became synonymous with video games, in an era where they had direct competition and we were already at the third generation of these kinds of machines. My contention is that the whole reason Nintendo "cornered the market" was because they targeted a broader audience, specifically littler kids than would normally be seen in an arcade, or playing games with violent war and shooting themes.

 

 

That was definitely part of it. It was also their infamous monopolization tactics that restricted third party support for their competitors.

 

Really, games directed at a more general audience began in the arcades with the likes of Pac-Man and Donkey Kong, and then came Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong Jr., Burger Time, Mr. Do, Popeye, Pooyan, Pengo, etc., etc. It wasn't all bloody war games and shooters even in the arcades.

 

Even the NES with all of its bowdlerization and family friendly content has its fair share of games with "violent war and shooter themes" many of which are arcade ports.

[John Stamos Mullet]

 

 

That was definitely part of it. It was also their infamous monopolization tactics that restricted third party support for their competitors.

 

Really, games directed at a more general audience began in the arcades with the likes of Pac-Man and Donkey Kong, and then came Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong Jr., Burger Time, Mr. Do, Popeye, Pooyan, Pengo, etc., etc. It wasn't all bloody war games and shooters even in the arcades.

 

Even the NES with all of its bowdlerization and family friendly content has its fair share of games with "violent war and shooter themes" many of which are arcade ports.

true to all of that.

 

But Nintendo did make a concerted effort to change how video games were viewed, from being electronics for teens and older kids to being toys for all ages. I don't mean that as a slight towards Nintendo fans, it's just a simple fact. They had games for everyone, but they made a specific focus on younger kids that no previous gaming company had. For some of us who were already teenagers at that point, It was a turn off. I was too busy playing guitar and riding my skateboard being a punker/metalhead at that point to care about that kidsy stuff. Sega brought me back in with stuff like road rash and mortal kombat

[pacman000]

 

Your experience is the complete opposite of mine.

 

The Atari 2600 was my first console as a kid in the early 80s. Then later we got a 7800 because it was backwards compatible with the 2600. But what I really wanted was a NES. Eventually we did get a NES. Games like Super Mario Bros., Contra, Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Marble Madness, etc. were a huge leap for me compared to what I was playing before. It was like night and day. Going from the 2600 and even the 7800 to the NES, I was hardly put off by the color palette and flicker, nor was anybody else that I knew. The games seemed glorious compared to what I had been playing. Maybe I was lucky in terms of reliability but I usually didn't have any trouble getting any game to work. Sometimes I had to do the trick where I pushed in the cart and wiggled it around a bit.

And that's the difference between hardware design & game design.

[mr_me]

true to all of that.

 

But Nintendo did make a concerted effort to change how video games were viewed, from being electronics for teens and older kids to being toys for all ages. I don't mean that as a slight towards Nintendo fans, it's just a simple fact. They had games for everyone, but they made a specific focus on younger kids that no previous gaming company had. For some of us who were already teenagers at that point, It was a turn off. I was too busy playing guitar and riding my skateboard being a punker/metalhead at that point to care about that kidsy stuff. Sega brought me back in with stuff like road rash and mortal kombat

I had a similar experience. When I first saw the nes, it looked like a toy and I never gave it a second thought. But I don't think that's how nintendo necessarily wanted it; they did it out of necessity. When nintendo first shown their system at CES it was called the Advanced Video System. It looked more like an upscale piece of electronics. It even had a computer keyboard and tape drive peripherals. The response they got from retailers was very underwhelming. A few months later at summer CES they got rid of the computer keyboard and added the robot; that got people's attention. It's like a musician who finds an audience of teeny-boppers, they're happy to take the success.

 

edit: I'll add that although the nes ended up in department stores toy sections it was decent game hardware. Thanks to the industry crash, hardware-wise it was a step above what existed in north america, until the SMS. Many gamers of all ages saw this despite the marketing. I remember the first time I had to go to toysrus to find video games. It felt weird, video games use to be in store electronic departments.

Edited October 17, 2018 by mr_me

[mbd30]

I had a similar experience. When I first saw the nes, it looked like a toy and I never gave it a second thought. But I don't think that's how nintendo necessarily wanted it; they did it out of necessity. When nintendo first shown their system at CES it was called the Advanced Video System. It looked more like an upscale piece of electronics. It even had a computer keyboard and tape drive peripherals. The response they got from retailers was very underwhelming. A few months later at summer CES they got rid of the computer keyboard and added the robot; that got people's attention. It's like a musician who finds an audience of teeny-boppers, they're happy to take the success.

 

edit: I'll add that although the nes ended up in department stores toy sections it was decent game hardware. Thanks to the industry crash, hardware-wise it was a step above what existed in north america, until the SMS. Many gamers of all ages saw this despite the marketing. I remember the first time I had to go to toysrus to find video games. It felt weird, video games use to be in store electronic departments.

 

When I first saw the NES, I saw that the games that were more impressive than anything I'd been playing on previous consoles, and I didn't give a crap about how they were marketed. That it was "too kiddie" never occurred to me, and I don't recall any of my friends caring about that either. I didn't know that this was a big issue with the NES until I saw people referring to it on AtariAge in their attacks on Nintendo. BTW, I was around 13 years old when I first got my NES in 1989, but I had been wanting one long before then.

[Flojomojo]

I was a little older when NES hit the scene, and despite being interested in the usual teenage stuff, it never felt "too kiddie" for me, no more than other video games ever did. Arcade ports, strategy guides everywhere, and rental stores helped cement it as the system to own. There was never really any contest between it and SMS, NES owned it all, and you could get cartridges everywhere: video stores, grocery stores, toy stores, electronics stores. I never paid much attention to it myself, but I got the sense the "kiddie" stuff was mostly Sega counterprogramming.

[mr_me]

I would have been about seventeen. In my high school nobody was talking about video games. The kiddie stuff was obviously from the toy robot which was in most of the nintendo tv commercials, I barely heard anything from Sega at that time. The side scrolling platformers didn't interest me much and still don't. Zelda is great but again, fantasy rpgs weren't of interest either. Even when I got Treasure of Tarmin for Intellivision, a quality cartridge, that kind of game wasn't for me. The light gun didn't help either.

Edited October 17, 2018 by mr_me

[Gentlegamer]

I would have been about seventeen. In my high school nobody was talking about video games. The kiddie stuff was obviously from the toy robot which was in most of the nintendo tv commercials, I barely heard anything from Sega at that time. The side scrolling platformers didn't interest me much and still don't. Zelda is great but again, fantasy rpgs weren't of interest either. Even when I got Treasure of Tarmin for Intellivision, a quality cartridge, that kind of game wasn't for me. The light gun didn't help either.

 

The Legend of Zelda is not an RPG.* It is Action-Adventure.

 

 

*Zelda II is an Action-RPG.

[NE146]

I was a little older when NES hit the scene, and despite being interested in the usual teenage stuff, it never felt "too kiddie" for me, no more than other video games ever did. Arcade ports, strategy guides everywhere, and rental stores helped cement it as the system to own. There was never really any contest between it and SMS, NES owned it all, and you could get cartridges everywhere: video stores, grocery stores, toy stores, electronics stores. I never paid much attention to it myself, but I got the sense the "kiddie" stuff was mostly Sega counterprogramming.

 

Yeah the whole kiddie thing makes me laugh. I was in college during the NES heyday, e.g. 1988 and me and the rest of the boys were all about playing the thing. Heck I'd finish boinking the girlfriend, and then head out to Toys R Us to buy Karnov. If there was a "kiddie" aspect to games like Punchout, Contra, SMB2, Life Force, or Metroid we totally glossed over it in light of how awesome playing the games were. I'm not sure how mature you had to be during that time to think the NES games were too childish for you, but I'll bet even if I was already a grizzled 49 years old during that time, I still would have played them because the games I mentioned above were out and about the BEST games available during those years for a home console (if you think otherwise, name some other ones out in 1988.. yes I had an SMS and all its best games). It's almost not even debatable.

Edited October 17, 2018 by NE146

[dj_convoy]

My parents went to Toys 'R' Us and looked at the side by side NES / SMS display when they finally decided to move past our seemingly ancient 5200 in 1987. I was lucky that they were relatively young and liked video games as much as I did. Like, they apparently agonized over it for quite a while, and eventually brought home a Master System, simply because they liked the graphics better. I certainly never regretted it, altho' I was mildly jealous of friends with Mario and Zelda. My family enjoyed the SMS for years, and did so until I had to convince them that the platform was dead, and we needed a Genesis.

 

As far as the premise of this thread, sure, younger people may not appreciate (or have spent much time with) older systems. I don't really see a problem with that; they didn't grow up with that sort of thing like most of us did, and I don't have the time to be a dangerous pro-Atari extremist, spreading my dark, pro-Atari gospel. If they don't know what they're missing, so what? I just know that, for me, as a nearly forty year old dork with limited time and hands that sometimes hurt a bit after protracted video game sessions, my appreciation of older, cruder games with simple, pick up and play gameplay has only increased. I still love epic, immersive RPGs or big games with deep story, but I don't always have time to play that kind of thing... where as I definitely have time to play a few rounds of the dumb but kinda fun rogue-like platformer I just got on the Switch, or a few quick rounds of Centipede on my 5200.

 

I love being an adult with some disposable income; it has allowed me to amass the kind of platform agnostic video game library that 8 or 9 year old whose parents brought home a Master System in 1987 could have only dreamt about. The only problems are time and inclination. I don't have to fight those console wars any more or be jealous of those Zelda or Mario kids.

[MrMaddog]

I would have been about seventeen. In my high school nobody was talking about video games. The kiddie stuff was obviously from the toy robot which was in most of the nintendo tv commercials, I barely heard anything from Sega at that time. The side scrolling platformers didn't interest me much and still don't. Zelda is great but again, fantasy rpgs weren't of interest either. Even when I got Treasure of Tarmin for Intellivision, a quality cartridge, that kind of game wasn't for me. The light gun didn't help either.

 

I had no problem playing NES games throughout my high school years ('89 to '92), but once I became a senior I just felt like I got as much as I can out of playing NES or any console games. Meanwhile I was getting exposed to computer games on the Macs we had in class and they were starting to appeal to me more. So I wanted a personal computer for a graduation gift which I got not only for the more advance type of games but also used it for college stuff like term papers. I guess I matured right along with the technology at the time.

 

And yet I now play NES games on my high end gaming PC, so go figure...

[insertclevernamehere]

I prefer games with mainly sound effects that keep music to a minimum. That's why my systems of choice, at least for now are current and pre crash era. The incessant music played throughout games of the 8 bit and 16 bit era drive me round the bend.

[eightbit]

I am sure in the distant future people will hate pre-PS4 stuff. It really is an age thing. If you did not grow up with it and play with it and love it...and develop nostalgic feelings for it....well it sucks. At least that is the mindset of the younger generation (not all though) today.

 

If I think about it myself, I would probably be the same had I not been born in the mid-70's and grew up in the dawn of the console era. I grew up playing Odyssey, Astrocade, Atari VCS, 5200, Colecovision, Intellivision, 7800...and on from there. I think because I had those great times with those great (new when I got them) consoles I have a greater respect for them than someone who was born in 1991 and had the N64 as their first console.

 

The point is that you just can't change that as you cannot change other things in life. Take music for example. I would suspect someone hearing some popular tune that their great grandparents loved would say that it sucks as well. Maybe some wouldn't but I expect most would not enjoy it at all.

 

One day the "breed" of folk who REALLY love Atari 2600 games will be dead and gone, and the future people who have no personal attachment to it will put it in some museum and try to tell the tale of the video game beginnings.

 

Nintendo is helping keep the nostalgia alive for their earliest system...so they may have bought some time for that to happen to the NES...but I suspect not so much more. Kids 20 years from now are not going to give a rats ass about playing Balloon Fight

Edited October 19, 2018 by eightbit

[Flojomojo]

I already feel that way about PS3/xb360 to some extent when compared directly with PS4/Xbone ...the older games don't suuuuuck but they're noticeably a step behind, like a cheap rental car or something. It works but isn't as "nice" as what you might have let yourself become accustomed to.

[Duke75]

Part of the post-NES fixation seems to me the increasing perception of video games as a storytelling medium. I can't count how many modern video game reviews I've seen that spend paragraphs going on at length about the story and characters of the game before finishing up with a comparatively brief and often primitive discussion of the actual gameplay. If you're coming at it from that perspective, pre-crash gaming might seem alien to you ("What's the story of this Asteroids game?" "Well, you shoot the asteroids before they hit you." "BUT WHY?!?!").

[mbd30]

Part of the post-NES fixation seems to me the increasing perception of video games as a storytelling medium. I can't count how many modern video game reviews I've seen that spend paragraphs going on at length about the story and characters of the game before finishing up with a comparatively brief and often primitive discussion of the actual gameplay. If you're coming at it from that perspective, pre-crash gaming might seem alien to you ("What's the story of this Asteroids game?" "Well, you shoot the asteroids before they hit you." "BUT WHY?!?!").

 

This is part of the reason for why modern gaming turns me off. If I wanted to watch a movie I'd watch a movie. I don't want to sit through endless plodding cut scenes and dialogue before I get to the game.

[Osgeld]

 

This is part of the reason for why modern gaming turns me off. If I wanted to watch a movie I'd watch a movie. I don't want to sit through endless plodding cut scenes and dialogue before I get to the game.

I remember back when a few friends worked at funco-land and there was a pc gaming arcade type place next door (pay by the hour to frag with a entire mini mall store full of nurds) and on the other side was a comic / anime shop and FF8 had just came out

 

so quite the collection of nurds had collected and they started the game ... I got bored of the intro, went outside to catch a smoke, came back in like 7 min later and IT WAS STILL TALKING!!! I said screw this, went back to mygame.net plopped down my 7 bucks and played lan re-volt with the other 5 people left

[Tanooki]

I have to agree with that on modern games. I have to be in the mood for a game to have a story with some depth to it, otherwise keep it to movies. Just let me start and go for it running, gunning ,jumping, blowing up stuff, whatever. If I wanted the details I'd read the story in the paperwork/manuals included.

[derFunkenstein]

In more recent times, stories are important but even then they're secondary. I'll play all RPG with a middling story so long as the grind is fun and/or gaining levels is meaningful.

 

Grinding Final Fantasy on the NES this summer want exactly FUN but gaining levels to around 40 was quick and the stat boosts were very useful. The story in that game was not important. Disgaea has a great story and hilarious writing but I wouldn't care if the combat system wasn't insanely fun. I'm sure the writing on The Witcher 3 is as good as people claim but I can't get into the combat so it sits unplayed. I don't even need or want a story in Grand Theft Auto, because there's so much to do.

[MrMaddog]

Part of the post-NES fixation seems to me the increasing perception of video games as a storytelling medium. I can't count how many modern video game reviews I've seen that spend paragraphs going on at length about the story and characters of the game before finishing up with a comparatively brief and often primitive discussion of the actual gameplay. If you're coming at it from that perspective, pre-crash gaming might seem alien to you ("What's the story of this Asteroids game?" "Well, you shoot the asteroids before they hit you." "BUT WHY?!?!").

 

Actually, the emphemesis on story telling is how NES/SNES games and modern games are simuliar. Younger gamers have more time to sit through a RPG regardless of system or generation. With less time available later in life, due to work/family/ATD, the five minute game is just as good whever if it's a pre-Crash cart or casual game on a smartphone.

 

Edit: Sorry for any spelling errors...

Edited October 23, 2018 by MrMaddog

[Eltigro]

Yeah, I never really got the "kiddie" feel from the NES hardware or games...

 

I felt like I had already outgrown Nintendo Power magazine by the time I got my first issue, however. lol

[+Black_Tiger]

Yeah, I never really got the "kiddie" feel from the NES hardware or games...

 

I felt like I had already outgrown Nintendo Power magazine by the time I got my first issue, however. lol

The results of funky color and stylistic choices that catered to the hardware limits did feel more cartoony than SMS/Genesis/TG-16 and SD stuff was more common.

 

Nintendo's promotion really pushed the family friendly narrative though. Initially marketing it as more of a toy than yet another video game system and the giant Fisher Price style carts and console got the ball rolling.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

This is part of the reason for why modern gaming turns me off. If I wanted to watch a movie I'd watch a movie. I don't want to sit through endless plodding cut scenes and dialogue before I get to the game.

This, this, a THOUSAND TIMES THIS!

 

I know some people really care for the stories and the characters within that modern games have. Frankly....I just don't get it. I actually think video games are an AWFUL story telling medium--maybe because they aren't a passive form of entertainment like movies or books, I don't know. But I never feel there is any real tension in video game stories....after all I can always start over/re-load my save/have another life/whatever. There is no stakes, no real tension. And the switch from passive (watching a cutscene/reading a dialog box/whatever) to interactive (playing the game) always removes me from any gravitas the story might have.

[+wongojack]

Uh . . . I love the story in games when it is good. That excludes pretty much anything Japanese that I've ever played however. There are incredible examples of story done well like Bioshock or The Last of Us . . . pretty much everything by Bioware has put out has great story starting with KOTOR. And Bethesda does a great job of offering you an incredible story that also is completely optional.

 

Just to stick with the thread topic - I also love the "pre-Nes" classic arcade experience.

 

But story in games has been around since . . . well forever. Colossal Cave Adventure was right behind Pong as one of the first computer games of any kind. People have been trying to tell stories since the advent of computer gaming and just like with any other storytelling medium, if it is good, it's good. If it is bad, it's bad.

 

I'm jumping to conclusions here, but I usually think you folks who don't like story in your games just don't like story at all. Do you watch the Oscars? Do you have a favorite play? What was your best experience reading a book? Maybe you've got answers to these, but if you don't, that's ok (I guess), just know that there are some of us who appreciate all sorts of stories, and want the experimentation to continue.

[high voltage]

Sony Playstation ruled, before that everything was crap.