Why do people actively hate "pre-NES" consoles?

[The Usotsuki]

Well, the Zork type of gaming is quite a different beast from Metal Gear Solid.

[Nebulon]

This, this, a THOUSAND TIMES THIS!

 

I know some people really care for the stories and the characters within that modern games have. Frankly....I just don't get it. I actually think video games are an AWFUL story telling medium--maybe because they aren't a passive form of entertainment like movies or books, I don't know. But I never feel there is any real tension in video game stories....after all I can always start over/re-load my save/have another life/whatever. There is no stakes, no real tension. And the switch from passive (watching a cutscene/reading a dialog box/whatever) to interactive (playing the game) always removes me from any gravitas the story might have.

As a rule, cut scenes should always be skippable and then made available in an index for playback on demand.

 

Only one modern game ever told a story effectively for me and that was Bioshock 2.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Nebulon

[NE146]

Also cutscenes need to have closed captioning. I have a hard time w/ listening comprehension so I miss a lot.

[Nebulon]

Which leads to the idea of more options. It's generally better to have more audio options (for example) than less.

[Eltigro]

As a rule, cut scenes should always be skippable and then made available in an index for playback on demand.

 

 

 

ESPECIALLY cutscenes that are right before a boss fight. It's so annoying to die, knowing you'll have to sit through an unskippable scene just to try again.

[+wongojack]

Well, the Zork type of gaming is quite a different beast from Metal Gear Solid.

 

Is this in reply to me? If so congratulations, you are right! Those are very different examples of storytelling in video games. Both are still critically acclaimed to this day (although I could personally forget about MGS and be fine). Anyway, thanks for pointing out that games have been telling stories both Pre and Post NES and providing very successful examples.

 

 

Only one modern game ever told a story effectively for me and that was Bioshock 2.

 

Bioshock 2 is a great game, but it is pretty much an example of a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" sequel when compared to the original. All three games are credited with excellent story elements by critics, but 2 is usually the lowest rated of the group. Personally, I can't make any big distinction between 1 and 2 in terms of the raw quality of the story. They rank about the same to me. Honestly, in the case of that series, I like them and the story kept me entertained, but I didn't get quite as excited as most peopled seemed to. Still a great example of excellent storytelling in video games.

[Nebulon]

 

Is this in reply to me? If so congratulations, you are right! Those are very different examples of storytelling in video games. Both are still critically acclaimed to this day (although I could personally forget about MGS and be fine). Anyway, thanks for pointing out that games have been telling stories both Pre and Post NES and providing very successful examples.

 

 

 

Bioshock 2 is a great game, but it is pretty much an example of a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" sequel when compared to the original. All three games are credited with excellent story elements by critics, but 2 is usually the lowest rated of the group. Personally, I can't make any big distinction between 1 and 2 in terms of the raw quality of the story. They rank about the same to me. Honestly, in the case of that series, I like them and the story kept me entertained, but I didn't get quite as excited as most peopled seemed to. Still a great example of excellent storytelling in video games.

 

Bioshock 2 fixed a few things here and there: A few strategic voice-actor changes, improvement on the audio FX and mix, some refinements to the graphics, and -- IMHO -- a better and more cinematic ending than the first installment.

 

And yes, I'm glad someone mentioned text games like the Zork series. There were some great story-telling games back in the day. In fact, I recall a few text adventures that really worked on me (despite their extremely simple graphics).

 

It may not be the NES, but it's related; I actually got into the game Brainlord on the SNES a few years ago. And I actually kind of enjoyed MS Saga on the PS2 (up until a boss fight that was so tough that I gave up after about 50 attempts). Then there's Starship Titanic. Missed out on that one the first time... might actually go back and give it a try.

[digdugnate]

Also cutscenes need to have closed captioning. I have a hard time w/ listening comprehension so I miss a lot.

my wife has hearing loss so subs/cc are a MUST. i find that it helps me a lot, too.

[pleaserecycle]

I recently reconnected with an old friend and we frequently talk consoles and games. We've talked about the Atari 2600 a few times and he mentioned that the games haven't aged well. For reference, we're both 30. I just think it's tough, at least initially, to get into consoles that predate the consoles we had growing up. I had a tough time getting into the NES and SNES when I played them for the first time a few years ago.

[AtariLeaf]

I recently reconnected with an old friend and we frequently talk consoles and games. We've talked about the Atari 2600 a few times and he mentioned that the games haven't aged well. For reference, we're both 30. I just think it's tough, at least initially, to get into consoles that predate the consoles we had growing up. I had a tough time getting into the NES and SNES when I played them for the first time a few years ago.

 

I can understand but I personally can't relate. The reason is simple - I started out with a pong console and there's not much that predates it unless you're talking about one of these. And yes, pong is better

 

[pleaserecycle]

 

I can understand but I personally can't relate. The reason is simple - I started out with a pong console and there's not much that predates it unless you're talking about one of these. And yes, pong is better

 

 

 

 

Well then I guess you're exempt from the rule!

 

How about the opposite question - do you play modern consoles?

[Recycled]

 

How about the opposite question - do you play modern consoles?

 

I'm glad I "predate" all consoles.

 

I have fun playing everything.

 

Modern yes. I mostly use my Switch at the moment.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Recycled

[AtariLeaf]

 

 

Well then I guess you're exempt from the rule!

 

How about the opposite question - do you play modern consoles?

 

Yep, I currently own a PS4 and play it semi-regularly. Battlefront II, No Mans Sky, Worms WMD, and the current NHL are some of my favorites.

[pleaserecycle]

 

I'm glad I "predate" all consoles.

 

I have fun playing everything.

 

Modern yes. I mostly use my Switch at the moment.

 

 

 

Yep, I currently own a PS4 and play it semi-regularly. Battlefront II, No Mans Sky, Worms WMD, and the current NHL are some of my favorites.

 

It's awesome that you guys are still gaming. I hope I never stop, but right now I'm finding it hard to devote a lot of time to longer story-driven or open world games.

[+wongojack]

 

 

 

It's awesome that you guys are still gaming. I hope I never stop, but right now I'm finding it hard to devote a lot of time to longer story-driven or open world games.

 

You'll find a lot of us on here just like AtariLeaf. And your comment is one of the reasons why we keep the 2600 games close and at the ready.

 

I've had to change my patterns to play modern games. First - I just can't play them all. I don't pay attention to what the magazines say is the "top" game (although I still read a few). I keep up with the games that I really want to play and then I basically have to MAKE time to play them. Sometimes this is as simple as logging my time during the weeknights and giving myself permission to play a chapter of Dead Space or Uncharted on Tues and Thurs nights. Other times, I take more 'dramatic' steps like taking a whole week off where my wife and I play through our backlog (it helps that she is into it).

 

I definitely don't have the incidental time to just play video games like I did bitd, but I don't let that stop me. My theory is that if I really want to do something then I should plan it - even leisure activity. Otherwise, I'll just waste time doing stuff that doesn't really make me happy.

[NE146]

With a kid, family & job, I barely have time to play stuff.. which is why it's taking me 16 months(!) so far to get to the end of Pokemon Fire Red (5 minute play sessions per day on the crapper). And I got Super Mario Odyssey at LAUNCH and to date I have about 70+ moons. So I play current stuff.. just slowly

 

That's why for modern games I like stuff like multiplayer stuff like Call of Duty - Black Ops 4. You start up a game session and it takes all of 10 minutes or so and you're done! So it's a total pick up and play kind of scenario without any major immersion commitment.

[Recycled]

 

 

 

It's awesome that you guys are still gaming. I hope I never stop, but right now I'm finding it hard to devote a lot of time to longer story-driven or open world games.

 

All I can say about that is thank goodness for checkpoints. I only game for about an hour or so a day. Some days not all, or on days off, more. But I try to anticipate checkpoints or something else that allows me stop around the time I want to when I'm playing those kinds of games.

[Kismet]

 

I've been seeing this for years. People all over seem to say things like Atari-era games and consoles are "objectively bad" or worthless and that Nintendo invented good games or other garbage. I often hear that you have to be at least 50 years old today to even like "pre-NES" games which is bogus because I'm 27 and have loved that stuff for over a decade. It's frustrating because the time before the NES was such a vibrant, fascinating era that was chock full of variety and interesting stories. The games are still fun today, I love golden era arcade style game design. It's sad that that whole part of gaming history is being slowly erased by Nintendo kids.

 

I don't really like Top Hat Gaming Man, but he has a point that the average joe would rather watch 2,000 videos about the same Nintendo games he's been playing his whole life than learn about something new. I guess I'm lucky that I'm not an idiot like that and I appreciate the hobby.

 

I can understand simply not being interested in "pre-NES" gaming, but to actively hate and discredit it or just being angry that it exists is bizarre.

 

You have to realize that there is a segment of Youtube that is "troll" and it's all about inducing rage in people. Don't watch clickbait, especially that which poses an argument in the title, because the answer is always "fast forward to the last 30 seconds"

 

 

I watched some of the video (not all of it, because it's tedious, twee and repetitive). Top Hat's complaint is that he gets fewer views when he talks about pre-NES topics. That says more about him and his audience than anything else, is that not obvious? It's certainly not worth 15 minutes of anyone's time, whether or not it puts a few quid in his pockets.

 

I'm feeling very grumpy about "new media" people who do things for audience (meaning money) rather than interest in or passion for the material. I wish Top Hat success and happiness, but I'm going to steer clear of him now that I've seen his schtick.

 

Ask these people why Retro-inspired games are being produced then. The retro-inspired games (eg Scott Pilgrim vs the World, Undertale, etc) are based on 8-bit or 16-bit game mechanics, but are a far cry from how 8-bit games actually look or sound other than the intentional use of low-resolution sprites and 8-bit sounding instruments.

 

Nobody really wants to make a Retro game have an exact look and feel of a Retro game, because we know those were shortcomings of those platforms, not design decisions (most of the time.) Like, one of the games I was totally engrossed in was Starflight, a game that ran on the Tandy 1000, and had an obnoxious copy protection scheme. The PC version was slow to load, but played fine. However the Amiga version was better on a few technical points, but would have been even more painful to play on a stock system, so the version that is probably the most accessible is the Sega Genesis version which plays a hell of a lot different.

 

That is where I find Youtube videos comparing versions on the vintage hardware to be interesting, but hard to do since not many people had all the systems, and emulation doesn't suffice for showing how these games actually looked, let alone played.

 

So my interests in vintage consoles and computers is mostly on 16-bit era games that had 8-bit ports/prequels and such.

[atarilovesyou]

Top Gaming Hat Man is all about creating controversy to increase clicks. He freely admits he does these videos for money. So while I'm sure he's a great guy and all in 'real life', but I sure as hell won't watch any of his videos. There are far better choices to spend your valuable time on. Unless you want to get upset about his inflammatory click bait titled videos, then you deserve what you get. There is no drama unless you so choose to participate in it.

[+GoldLeader]

 

You'll find a lot of us on here just like AtariLeaf. And your comment is one of the reasons why we keep the 2600 games close and at the ready.

 

I've had to change my patterns to play modern games. First - I just can't play them all. I don't pay attention to what the magazines say is the "top" game (although I still read a few). I keep up with the games that I really want to play and then I basically have to MAKE time to play them. Sometimes this is as simple as logging my time during the weeknights and giving myself permission to play a chapter of Dead Space or Uncharted on Tues and Thurs nights. Other times, I take more 'dramatic' steps like taking a whole week off where my wife and I play through our backlog (it helps that she is into it).

 

I definitely don't have the incidental time to just play video games like I did bitd, but I don't let that stop me. My theory is that if I really want to do something then I should plan it - even leisure activity. Otherwise, I'll just waste time doing stuff that doesn't really make me happy.

 

 

Top Gaming Hat Man is all about creating controversy to increase clicks. He freely admits he does these videos for money. So while I'm sure he's a great guy and all in 'real life', but I sure as hell won't watch any of his videos. There are far better choices to spend your valuable time on. Unless you want to get upset about his inflammatory click bait titled videos, then you deserve what you get. There is no drama unless you so choose to participate in it.

 

The stuff I put in BOLD = WISDOM!!!!

[TheCoolDave]

You can press A+start to restart at the last world where you died. So if you croak in world 4, you can restart there by holding A and pressing start. This will always start you out on world N-1, though, but it is a pretty decent way to "save your progress" so to speak, vs. going back to 1-1.

 

You can also get yourself a Retron 5. It plays the original games but, as it works as a form of emulation (it rips the game and you play it while in memory). It has the perks of Real time save and other features that you that you only see on Emulators... SO it's the best of both worlds..

 

It plays NES, SNES, Famicom, Sega Genesis and with an adapter can play master system games/cards. So, games like Mike Tyson's punch out, you can save between fights or even round 2 of a fight. No more codes to deal with

 

The nice perk is it comes out over HDMI and looks EPIC compared to connecting a NES to a modern LCD...

 

I scored a used/untested one on ebay for $41, it works perfect, best $41 I spent in classic gaming.

[SegaSnatcher]

 

You can also get yourself a Retron 5. It plays the original games but, as it works as a form of emulation (it rips the game and you play it while in memory). It has the perks of Real time save and other features that you that you only see on Emulators... SO it's the best of both worlds..

 

It plays NES, SNES, Famicom, Sega Genesis and with an adapter can play master system games/cards. So, games like Mike Tyson's punch out, you can save between fights or even round 2 of a fight. No more codes to deal with

 

The nice perk is it comes out over HDMI and looks EPIC compared to connecting a NES to a modern LCD...

 

I scored a used/untested one on ebay for $41, it works perfect, best $41 I spent in classic gaming.

Retron 5 is lag city. I'd rather get a proper clone like the AVS, Super NT and Mega SG.

[BassGuitari]

...but right now I'm finding it hard to devote a lot of time to longer story-driven or open world games.

 

Related anecdote: I've got my Commodore 64 set up right now, for the first time in quite a while (I wanted to play some Halloweeny stuff like Cauldron and Ghosts 'N' Goblins, and even the Commodore version of Castlevania). I was going through my cases of disks and didn't realize I had as many as I apparently do. A lot of adventure/RPG stuff in there that I never bothered to try out, so for curiosity's sake, I decided to check out a few, such as Mars Saga.

 

All this stuff where you get this big preamble of a story, you have to create a character, and everything is menu-driven and turn-based...man, f@#$ all that. I just want to play a damn game.

 

Top Gaming Hat Man is all about creating controversy to increase clicks.

 

At the risk of being judgy and superficial...his ears creep me the f@#$ out.

 

If the guy shaved and put in some rat fangs, he'd look like Count Orlok.

[Tanooki]

Retron5 is terrible as far as consistency and build quality that lasts goes, so if you have to have a little android box just like that, get the gamefreak as it sucks a good bit less, and can fire up games off a SD card too (also natively supports PC Engine/TG too.)

 

But really best bet, SuperNT/HiDefNES kit level stuff and complimentary flash kit. It'll cost a little more, but hey at least it works right.

[adamchevy]

I was born in the 80s and grew up playing the NES. I didn’t know their was Atari anything until about 5 years ago. I remember a very faint memory of playing an Atari 2600 at my cousins house when I was around 3 years old, but it’s hard to tell for sure.

Anyway, I am very much the opposite. I think Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are great and all but they have capitalized on what Atari, Coleco, Mattel, Magnavox and others already built. At the very least they learned from there mistakes and capitalized on those.

I missed out on going to Arcades in the 70s and 80s because I was born in 1981. I wish I could have gone to an arcade and had a serious game of defender, Robotron 2084, Black Widow, Gravitar, Asteroids, PACMAN, Qbert, Galaga, Space Invaders, and many others I can’t think of. But I was stuck playing Street Fighter 2, X-men, San Francisco Rush, and eventually Tekken 3. Not bad games, but certainly not the greats. I wish I could have enjoyed learning to program on a machine that enables you to actually control the hardware at such a simple and direct level. I wish instead of reading about the Ultra 64 in Next Generation magazine that I could have been learning to code in assembly by typing in programs from Antic and Analog.

Kids now days(including me) are overly entertained by the ease of access to anything we want at a whim. It takes away the necessity of learning because you are bored and want more. The birth of computers and video game technology is the time I long to understand and experience. So I’m trying to do so now. Unfortunately I don’t have the time a child and teenager have to mess with these amazing machines and type in long programs for a few hours everyday.

Edited November 1, 2018 by adamchevy