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Bill Loguidice

AtGames Officially Unveils Legends Ultimate Home Arcade (full-size machine)

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I've been following this thread for some time and have been very interested in this cabinet.

 

But, after hearing about the $1 hour charge to play Steam games, my interest is waning quickly. Since local streaming is so common now, I'd assumed what most had probably assumed - that this cabinet would let us stream our already paid-for Steam games to the cabinet from our PC.

 

This cabinet has a lot of nice ideas and I really like the control panel. But sadly, it looks like greed has killed its potential. In fact, I doubt many people will be OK with that service concept, and it will ultimately fail due to lack of customers.

 

The cabinet might still be worth a purchase to hack for direct use with PC etc. But it's a shame that would be the only way to play PC games on it without paying absurd fees and needing constant high speed internet.

 

Regardless of that issue, it remains to be seen what the actual final product is like. Will the build quality be acceptable? Will the controls and screen be good? Etc.

Edited by TapperP
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Comprehension must be running low these days. The 1$ per hour streaming feature is/appears to be totally optional and wouldn't ruin the general arcade experience originally intended. It's like that 3D TV stuffage they tried making a few years back. No one ever used it for any length of time.

Edited by Keatah
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10 hours ago, Keatah said:

Comprehension must be running low these days. The 1$ per hour streaming feature is/appears to be totally optional and wouldn't ruin the general arcade experience originally intended. It's like that 3D TV stuffage they tried making a few years back. No one ever used it for any length of time.

Nobodies talking about the arcade stuff, this is purely about streaming games through Steam for the pc ones.

 

Personally i don't care about it, but other people do. That's why they are discussing it.

 

later

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12 hours ago, Keatah said:

Comprehension must be running low these days. The 1$ per hour streaming feature is/appears to be totally optional and wouldn't ruin the general arcade experience originally intended. It's like that 3D TV stuffage they tried making a few years back. No one ever used it for any length of time.

Yours is certainly running low. You've just told us the sky is blue, but you missed the whole point of the criticisms. The Steam streaming feature was something a lot of potential customers were interested in, but the details of its implementation are very disappointing.

 

And, looking at the bigger picture, the whole concept of charging people to play games they already purchased is yet another example of anti-consumer practices in gaming.

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22 minutes ago, TapperP said:

And, looking at the bigger picture, the whole concept of charging people to play games they already purchased is yet another example of anti-consumer practices in gaming.

That's pretty over the top. Would you criticize a new vehicle for having a cupholder just because you don't want to drink a beverage in the car? A DC power adapter because you don't have something to plug in? The OnStar or satellite radio system but you don't want to subscribe?

 

The streaming features of this thing are pretty obviously just extras, optional features that nobody has to use, and one aspect of it would allow folks to play games they own without the need of a PC. 

 

AtGames acquired Direct2Drive a few years ago, and they are one of many companies in the position to offer this kind of cloud streaming to people who want it. With Google Stadia, Playstation Now, Xbox streaming, Steam streaming, GeForce Now, and probably many, many other players I've forgotten or don't know about -- if AtGames doesn't at least TRY to show a streaming product, they'll miss the window of opportunity and they'll wonder what could have been. While I agree with you the world is probably not ready for game streaming (especially at per-minute metered rates), it's hardly "anti-consumer" if it's totally optional, as has been made clear by many people in this thread. 

 

They also need to differentiate themselves from stuff like "arcade-in-a-box" stuff from MicroCenter or the every-popular RetroPie. This is a little something extra. I wouldn't deny them that, and burying their unique features doesn't do anyone any favors. 

 

Go back and read Bill's original pitch, and try to separate what it will do out of the box, from what it can do for those who choose to use those services. 

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Even though I agree with you guys, I'm afraid this streaming feature will garner a lot of negative reactions.

I know my readers and how grumpy retrogamers can be about everything (maybe the French ones even more, I don't know), and I'm pretty sure they'll be angry about this feature no matter how hard I try to present it the right way. 😕

 

For example, many gamers complained about the fact that Nintendo Switch Online didn't offer much for its price. Then Tetris 99 was released, and the same people complained about the fact it wasn't really free since you had to pay a subscription to play it. 😑

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2 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Subscription software is indication of a philosophy of greed within a company.

Or maybe they just want to sustain themselves. And subscription hardware, that is, renting time on other people's computers, obviously has a real world cost.

 

Not sure how many people (a) have Steam games, (b) don't have their own computers to play these games, and (c) would be willing to stream the games in exchange for money. There was a time when I was gung-ho for OnLive, but I've started to embrace local hardware and storage since then. A "good enough" gamer PC doesn't need to cost a ton of money. 

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Hamster is the official publisher of the classic Nintendo arcade games available on the Switch eShop. Not Nintendo themselves. 

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25 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Or maybe they just want to sustain themselves. And subscription hardware, that is, renting time on other people's computers, obviously has a real world cost.

 

Not sure how many people (a) have Steam games, (b) don't have their own computers to play these games, and (c) would be willing to stream the games in exchange for money. There was a time when I was gung-ho for OnLive, but I've started to embrace local hardware and storage since then. A "good enough" gamer PC doesn't need to cost a ton of money. 

Exactly this. Streaming servers are extremely costly. Again, this is just one of a myriad of ways to play on the machine. It's ADDING to the many options, not taking anything away. It's unlikely someone would take advantage of every option this machine is going to offer.

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1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Exactly this. Streaming servers are extremely costly. Again, this is just one of a myriad of ways to play on the machine. It's ADDING to the many options, not taking anything away. It's unlikely someone would take advantage of every option this machine is going to offer.

I think perhaps part of the disconnect is (for me anyway) when I hear I can stream my Steam library, I assume you are going to support the native Steam streaming. I can stream steam games in my house from my Windows PC to my Mac, my AppleTV, my phone and (if I had one) to the Steam streaming device.

 

There isn't any reason for atgames to build all the expensive streaming servers. (Or perhaps more diplomatically, many people do not want it or expect it.)

 

Before I got a gaming PC (All my other computers are Macs) I was using Shadow which is a streaming Windows service suitable for games. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't as good as sitting in front of a real windows machine and it was almost (almost, but not quite) as good as streaming to my Mac from my own Windows gaming machine. Now, if there is a game I cannot play on my Mac, I can load it on my Windows machine and stream it to my Mac (as long as I am home) for free. My Mac is a laptop and when I am travelling I cannot play those games, but this is an arcade cabinet, so people are unlikely to be toting it around. :)

 

Perhaps people are railing aginst the decision atgames made to build expensive infrastructure that many people do not need, and therefore feel -- for lack of a better term -- cheated for being asked to pay for it if they want to take advantage of the previously mentioned streaming option.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

There isn't any reason for atgames to build all the expensive streaming servers. (Or perhaps more diplomatically, many people do not want it or expect it.)

 

 

An opinion. And it streams nearly every PC service, not just STEAM.

 

Quote

Perhaps people are railing aginst the decision atgames made to build expensive infrastructure that many people do not need, and therefore feel -- for lack of a better term -- cheated for being asked to pay for it if they want to take advantage of the previously mentioned streaming option.

 

This makes my head hurt. So now you can cheat people by offering optional features? That's a new one. And for what it's worth, this is cloud technology AtGames has been iterating on for years and is a key part of the overall business. It's being leveraged for the arcade machine. This was not something built on a whim specific for the arcade machine, although it will certainly be a showcase on there.

 

I guess it can't be said enough here. There are several ways to play on this machine, including 350 built-in games, plugging in external consoles, streaming games, downloading games, etc., plus an open API to allow for third parties to add even more features (and, also, several are already working on additional controllers). If that's cheating people, then I'd love to be cheated by more companies in exactly this way.

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1 hour ago, Keatah said:

Streaming games is an example of doing something because you can. Not because it's useful or required.

FYI a lot of people stream games from PC's and consoles to other rooms and devices in their own homes. It's a great feature if you have good networking. So yes, it is useful. Whether it's required or not is up to the individual.

 

Also, in just about every video posted from E3 about this cabinet, they mentioned that you could play your Steam games from a PC, and they showed off people playing the PC version of Street Fighter IV. That will have caught people's eye, for some even moreso than the early arcade titles included (there's a good reason they showed that game so often). The cabinet has a 16:9 monitor and a fighting game button layout (unlike Arcade1Ups that have 4:3 monitors, which are perfect for classic arcade games, but not for newer stuff). That setup is begging to play current fighting game titles (and other modern action/arcade games etc.), so yeah, people were interested in streaming their Steam games to it. Unfortunately the streaming implementation is not what many had hoped/assumed.

 

Is that a deal breaker? Not necessarily, which is what I alluded to in my first post. It could still be a nice cabinet to own, and there is still a LOT left to learn about it. So we'll see.

Edited by TapperP

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1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I guess it can't be said enough here. There are several ways to play on this machine, including 350 built-in games, plugging in external consoles...

Bill, does that mean we can simply plug a PC or console into the HDMI and USB ports to use the screen and controls?

 

If yes, then that's great and even better than streaming (i.e. no extra lag).

 

Also, I apologize for being a bit rough on the streaming implementation (although it doesn't sound like a service I would personally opt for, we'll see), but there's a lot of manipulative stuff going on these days in videogames and people are sensitive to it. You seem like a good guy and the cabinet has a lot of nice ideas in it. That's why I've been following news of it since it was announced (in fact I signed up here specifically to discuss this Atgames cabinet, although I am also an old Atari fan as well).

 

Edited by TapperP
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I'm still moderately interested as I don't know that I would want to stream games on the arcade anyway. I do think the $20/month for the ArcadeNet seems a bit high, but it remains to be seen what is included.

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Streaming in home, at home, on a fast network is a matter of convenience. And if it works, great. No different than long-ass cables.

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I am glad I don't have Steam, so I don't have to pay to stream games I already pay for on another service.  How much per hour is it to play the build in 350 games? (JUST KIDDING!)

 

From under my rock, I can't imaging enough people using the streaming service on this machine to even matter... most people that even get what that is are going to just do it a different way... what I am saying is that I see the streaming feature as rather obscure, as opposed to a selling point.  This is unless I am way off in my perception of the target market.

 

I just want an arcade cabinet starting point with "good" controls... beyond that, everything is "just features" like the pile of them I don't use on my cell phone either.

 

I will be getting one of these cabinets unless something drastic surfaces... and I think this will be the norm.

 

MrBlackCat

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1 hour ago, TapperP said:

Bill, does that mean we can simply plug a PC or console into the HDMI and USB ports to use the screen and controls?

 

 

All 2019 AtGames non-portables (i.e., not the handhelds) will be able to plug into the arcade machine and make use of their games on both the monitor and with the arcade controls. Most 2018 AtGames non-portables will do the same. 

 

As for other products, you can plug anything you want into the HDMI input and display it on the screen, but can't take advantage of the arcade controls. However, there's that open API I was talking about, so...

 

Again, you can take the machine as JUST an arcade quality full-size home arcade with 350 built-in games and get your value there, but the idea is that it's a true platform, so it's something that can do so much more. The how and what and how much of that so much more is going to be up to the individual's preferences. The core, including really good controls, doesn't change.

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On 8/12/2019 at 3:18 PM, Keatah said:

 

Yeh that's a no-no. And it said "streaming". So that means big bandwidth is needed.

 

So,  Why would ya need a big sandwich?   

 

 

Oh,...I was pretty tired when I first read your post and my eyes were kinda playing tricks on me heh...

 

 

 

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Forgive me if it's already been mentioned,  but do we know the price on this yet?

 

Was I in a dream that someone somewhere said $599? 

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6 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

Forgive me if it's already been mentioned,  but do we know the price on this yet?

 

Was I in a dream that someone somewhere said $599? 

That's the price for the full-size model. Pre-orders and extra details, including the game list, should be up before the end of the month.

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20 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

That's the price for the full-size model. Pre-orders and extra details, including the game list, should be up before the end of the month.

Thanks Bill!  You're a wonderful human being.  Believe I'll Follow you on AtariAge!   (Thought I already was  🙌 )

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Some speculation as to how the streaming will work....

 

AtGames will likely give you access to a virtual PC desktop hosted in their cloud.  You access it via a web browser, then sign in to Steam, GoG, whatever on it.  Then AtGames streams from that cloud PC to the arcade console.  So nothing actually runs on the PC you have at home.

 

I could see this being useful if the cabinet is located somewhere outside the home, for instance a cabinet set up in a public area at a workplace.

 

All that said, I think the per-hour fee is pretty offputting and something like a flat monthly fee might be better accepted by consumers.  But AtGames has presumably thought about this and they feel this is the best approach.

 

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